Night sample videos of cheap kit camera vs better camera!

[Whatthehex 0]

So far I tried a system from Q-See, Swann, and Lorex and was not impressed with any of them. But in their defense, the kits were between $300 and $600 with 8 600 line cameras. In my quest for an inexpensive home system I've pretty much concluded you can't get a good system for cheap. All of the cameras were decent in the daytime. However, the Q-See system with the QM6006B camera had the sharpest image and best color of the bunch. However, at night they all were pretty bad. So I ordered a camera for $120 rated at 700 lines B&W and 600 lines color made by Empire Security - model ESC1-WDR2. I was not impressed in the day time with the more expensive camera. In fact, the colors looked washed out (no IR cut) and the Q-See camera looked better in the day. The more expensive camera also was not any sharper. I'm guessing because D1 is just pretty low resolution it doesn't matter after a certain point how sharp the camera is. But wow, what a difference at night. The Empire Security camera at night is not even using the IR LEDs with the lighting on the house. It has color video at night and the image is soooo much better that the other cameras in the kits.

 

I posted on YouTube a video of the Empire and the the Q-See camera shot at midnight so other newbies like me can see the difference a camera makes at night!

 

However, overall I am disappointed in the level of technology for consumer level DVR units. D1 is pretty crappy resolution and after you compress it the recording it even worse. So my recommendation is to buy an inexpensive system that has the minmum number of cameras you can get by with, and then buy a couple better quality cameras to supplement your system. Video in the day will still be crappy D1 resolution, but at night the more expensive camera makes a huge difference. Then throw it all away when HD systems become affordable.

 

Video of Q-See camera at night:

http://youtu.be/v8mo9HCAFR0

 

Video of Empire Security Camera at night:

http://youtu.be/sKjzDYeel5Y

[ChuckE 0]

Just curious what DVR you are using with both of the videos. TIA

[Whatthehex 0]

QC448 for now but I'm getting rid of it. (Not Internet friendly and crashed 3 different routers I tested with it after a few minutes being connected to them.)

Edited July 12, 2012 by Guest

[groovyman 0]

Thanks for posting your thoughts on the systems and the camera comparison.

 

In my quest for an inexpensive home system I've pretty much concluded you can't get a good system for cheap.

There ya go. " title="Applause" />

 

I personally haven't used any of those dvr-in-a-box cameras, but I've seen them on quite a few DIY installations. Color reproduction is horrible in my opinion (you may have gotten better quality cameras though). I've used inexpensive QSee DVRs in the past and although I was satisfied with the resulting video when used with decent cameras, the DVRs themselves aren't lasting very long and one by one are dying a slow death and being replaced.

 

Some here use QSee DVRs and have been quite happy with their performance. I guess it all comes down to the model you happen to get.

[mike_va 0]

The Qsee might be better if it was not lighting up that post, perhaps causing it to back off the exposure.

 

The other one does pretty decent at night, hard living with no ICR after a while.

 

Thanks for posting, always nice to see results

[shockwave199 0]

However, overall I am disappointed in the level of technology for consumer level DVR units. D1 is pretty crappy resolution and after you compress it the recording it even worse. So my recommendation is to buy an inexpensive system that has the minmum number of cameras you can get by with, and then buy a couple better quality cameras to supplement your system. Video in the day will still be crappy D1 resolution, but at night the more expensive camera makes a huge difference. Then throw it all away when HD systems become affordable.

Having gone through it, I would suggest avoiding boxed systems. Buy an eight channel D1 dvr separately, and then buy good cameras appropriate for each location. Mix and match cameras is fine or if you like one certain camera, use a bunch of them. The empire camera is much better at night, however I think when you spend the bucks it should absolutely include TDN so the day shot looks good too. You may be able to strike a good balance by adjusting the colors for that channel in the dvr. Sometimes a slight push to the greener hue side with a little more satuartion is all it takes to deepen the color to be acceptable during the day- unless it's really bad with skewed color overall. It's also tough when doing youtube vids because the picture quality drops even more. Maybe your vids were uncompressed because they were short. My vids are typically longer, so I go with best quality MP4, which is another resolution drop.

 

I think for the newbie homeowner there IS good quality to be had with analog. But opposed to what's written on the sides of that nice box you put under your arm when you walk out of the store, it simply isn't that easy to get the best quality you can. The formula for homeowner success IS rather simple though- quality hand picked separate pieces, the pain of installing it yourself, the pain of recuperating from that experience, and about 1k in your wallet for gear that will make all that work at least worth it.

[empiresecuritycamera 0]

IR Cut filters can be added to any model as per client request.

[groovyman 0]

D1 is pretty crappy resolution and after you compress it the recording it even worse.

In my opinion it really comes down to the environment, FOV (field of view) and what is being captured. For your environment and what you're capturing it seems that D1 is not sufficient for you, and that's understandable. Also, as you mentioned, cameras and compression have an effect on overall quality as well.

 

In most of the environments where I've installed cameras, MP cameras are not needed. And in the environments where a MP camera or two would be advantageous, the clients choked when learning the cost. Using decent quality analog equipment and setting the proper FOV can yield decent results.

[Whatthehex 0]

I think a big part of the problem is D1 being 720x480. That is just too low of a resolution to get any detail at a distance. So while you'll be able to see a crime take place, good luck being able to make out who it was unless it happended within 25' from the camera. One of the kits I tried had wide angle cameras which made the problem even worse as the image was that much fuzzier capturing a wider area.

 

But there is a place for these cheap kits. For example, inside a small business or home they should be fine. But when you are trying to cover outdoors the problems are compounded. First the cheap cams are poor at handling light where the brightness is not consistent in the entire frame. And at D1 there simply isn't enough resolution to digitally zoom in the video and hope to have may detail from shots at a distance. But at $400 for a kit with 8 cameras you can't be too picky I guess.

 

I was concerned about quality after reading how many of these big box store units seem to die early. Therefore, I decided to get mine from Costco as then you have a lifetime warranty! If the manufacturer doesn't want to replace a part that does bad, rip the entire kit off the walls and get a refund at Costco.

 

If I had a larger budget I probably would have purchased a newer hybrid type DVR that accepts megapixel IP cameras. But the DVR alone was around $800. Then add 8 camaers at around $150 each and you're looking at about $2,000.

 

In a few minutes I'll upload to YouTube some daytime video comparing the big box kit camera to the Empire camera. I'm not sure what settings the Empire camera should be set to so it may not be set to optimal settings. Not impressive in the daytime in the sense of being significantly better than the Q-See unit. I monkeyed around with the settings and improved the daytime color. But there is no comparison at night to the cheaper cameras and that is what I was shooting for with the Empire cam.

 

For anyone considering the other kits at Costo, I'd say the QSee camera QM6006B had an image quality subjectively 15-20% better than the Lorex and Swann cameras I tried, both in terms of sharpness and color. It was also considerably better than the QSee 520 line "premium" camera QSC1352W that comes in the kit with the more expensive QT528 DVR. So in other words, the video you see in my posts of the QM6006B camera is about as good as it gets for the big box kit sets.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Guest

[Whatthehex 0]

Sample Q-See QM6006B Camera Daytime Video:

http://youtu.be/heRyFNA6JQA

 

Sample Empire Security ESC1-WDR2 Camera Daytime Video

http://youtu.be/evXry20MWZA

[ak357 0]

D1 is pretty crappy resolution and after you compress it the recording it even worse.

In my opinion it really comes down to the environment, FOV (field of view) and what is being captured. For your environment and what you're capturing it seems that D1 is not sufficient for you, and that's understandable. Also, as you mentioned, cameras and compression have an effect on overall quality as well.

 

In most of the environments where I've installed cameras, MP cameras are not needed. And in the environments where a MP camera or two would be advantageous, the clients choked when learning the cost. Using decent quality analog equipment and setting the proper FOV can yield decent results.

 

What do u think about this statement

 

"Recommending only video security solutions based on your current comfort level or technical capabilities is not delivering the best long-term business solution.

It is selling products.

If you are in a "product sale" mindset, you better have some really low overhead and be able to live with "low price wins" profitability issues."

[ak357 0]

Sample Q-See QM6006B Camera Daytime Video:

http://youtu.be/heRyFNA6JQA

 

Sample Empire Security ESC1-WDR2 Camera Daytime Video

http://youtu.be/evXry20MWZA

 

10 years ago I would say Woow

Today I would ask you why did u bother to buy and install this ......

[shockwave199 0]

I think a big part of the problem is D1 being 720x480. That is just too low of a resolution to get any detail at a distance. So while you'll be able to see a crime take place, good luck being able to make out who it was unless it happended within 25' from the camera.

But that's the biggest mistake made, and that's why for everything else a camera has, it usually needs to be a varifocal as well. And they need to be well placed. Your camera- it's capturing some of the driveway and maybe closest to the camera, the front door? Either location may be too compramised by that positioning. Because of the limitations invloved, you need to cover critcal areas with a very specific fov's. Wide shots are fine, but not for actual ID'ing in two different areas just because they're in the shot. It's just not practical with analog. In your example you need at least two cameras- one to cover the front door and one much closer to the driveway, perhaps looking straight down it if possible. In your current position, why am I seeing sky at all? I'd start by pointing it more downward to capture way more important things than the sky. This is why I always suggest homeowners get no less than eight channels for residential exterior. You need tight fov's for critical spots such as door and windows. Then you augment that with wider shots if you want. That's why it's critical to put yourself in front of the cameras. THEN you understand how much you can't see detail in your shots with poor positioning. As much as I love having large fov's for some of my channels, you need to give that up and tighten up the shot for critical areas. Then you'll have something. Balance the two out- tight shots for critical areas and wider shots for overviews, so you have ID detail and still have a full view of your property. And I'm just a DIY'r here, so consider the source.

[groovyman 0]

D1 is pretty crappy resolution and after you compress it the recording it even worse.

In my opinion it really comes down to the environment, FOV (field of view) and what is being captured. For your environment and what you're capturing it seems that D1 is not sufficient for you, and that's understandable. Also, as you mentioned, cameras and compression have an effect on overall quality as well.

 

In most of the environments where I've installed cameras, MP cameras are not needed. And in the environments where a MP camera or two would be advantageous, the clients choked when learning the cost. Using decent quality analog equipment and setting the proper FOV can yield decent results.

 

What do u think about this statement

 

"Recommending only video security solutions based on your current comfort level or technical capabilities is not delivering the best long-term business solution.

It is selling products.

If you are in a "product sale" mindset, you better have some really low overhead and be able to live with "low price wins" profitability issues."

I think it came out of left field and don't get what it has to do with video resolution in environments that don't need cameras that produce images where you can zoom in and see nostril hairs

[Whatthehex 0]

The video clips I provided were just to compare video quality of "big box sets" against what I would consider a mid priced analog camera. Cameras were pointed at ramdom with both in the same general view to compare color / sharpness, etc. I actually was planning to put the Empire camera under my mailbox on the sidewalk to see if it would capture the license plates of cars that go in and out of the cul-de-sac. I think it has the ability to block the headlights to possibly be able to read plates at night but I'm not too optimistic with the quality drop in video after compression.

 

For the driveway I do have 2 cameras positioned up close. ; ) Have one on each side of the garage. I took a photo of my monitor with my cell phone showing one camera. Sorry, can't figure out how to get this darn DVR to take a snapshot of a video frame.

 

 

 

I agree that POV is very important and the analog cameras if placed close to what you need to capture will do the job. Although even up close at night the LED range is a bit limiting. (My IR illuminator arrived today from China! : ) But no time to play with it yet to see how well it supplements the LEDs on the cameras.)

 

Because of the limited resolution, and the need to have relatively tight shots to get enough detail, I agree that an 8 or 16 ch DVR is needed to cover the outside of a typical house. You just can't point a camera at a distance to cover a large area and capture anything that will serve to identify who did what other than to know at what time you got vandalized or robbed by a blob.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Guest

[ak357 0]

I think it came out of left field and don't get what it has to do with video resolution in environments that don't need cameras that produce images where you can zoom in and see nostril hairs

 

That Ok

just forget about

No harm meant

[groovyman 0]

I think it came out of left field and don't get what it has to do with video resolution in environments that don't need cameras that produce images where you can zoom in and see nostril hairs

 

That Ok

just forget about

No harm meant

Didn't think you did. All good.

[Whatthehex 0]

Sample Q-See QM6006B Camera Daytime Video:

http://youtu.be/heRyFNA6JQA

 

Sample Empire Security ESC1-WDR2 Camera Daytime Video

http://youtu.be/evXry20MWZA

 

10 years ago I would say Woow

Today I would ask you why did u bother to buy and install this ......

 

Because for $400 it should do an adequate job, and I'm not prepared to spend $2,000+ to get enough of a leap in quality to make me happy. The cameras positioned close to the cars and windows are okay for now. Sure, could be a lot better, but not in the budget for now to get a HD system, and I don't think even if I spent double what I did I would get that much more out of an analog system. But I'll readily admit I'm a newbie at this and this is my first shot at putting together a surveillance system in my house, so I'm no expert by a long shot. Just trying to help other newbies out there on a budget showing what the big box store kits can or can't do. (And to show that despite what is written on the kit boxes about great night time vision, they are not nearly as good at night as the one other camera I purchased.)