TCM-5311

[bike_rider 0]

I was hoping that this camera would make a decent night camera with some additional IR illumination. So far, it is very disappointing at night. Day time is fine (I suspect all MP cameras look at least good in the day light).

 

I have two issues that I'll have to contact support for.

 

1. Transition between day/night loops for about 5 minutes. Morning or evening, this camera can't decide what mode it wants to be in. It has parameters to set the light level that should trigger the transition between modes, but there is a bug in the current firmware. Transition levels are based on how much gain the sensor thinks it needs. So, level 0 is full sunlight and level 100 is pitch dark. Just before sunrise is around 65. With Day->Night at 67 (just after sundown/before sunrise) and Night->Day at 8 (sun over the horizon), you'd think there would be no problem. The problem is that the sensor reading is retaken after it switches modes. So at sun rise, it says "Hey it is getting brighter, let me switch to day mode." Then right after it switches to day mode, it says "Hey, it seems kind of dark now, I better switch to night mode". etc, etc for about 5 minutes until the post-switch mode reaches a certain level of lights. I have the Day-Night at 12, and Night to Day at 12. It is nice that you can get a current reading on the exposure level, but that only helps to confirm the problem.

 

2. Very noisy night images. I"m still working on this because you can set the "Brightness" and the "Auto Exposure Reference". My target area has a lot of asphalt so it is very dark when there is nothing in the image. The sample here shows some of the problem. I still have work to do on focus under IR and and work on the balance between AE target and brightness, so maybe I can get it a little better.

 

Current firmware installed.

[buellwinkle 0]

That actually looks pretty good considering it's probably just a porch light in the front. For a camera like that, I would put in two IR illuminators, say 30-45 degrees apart from the camera on either side to avoid shadows. When sizing an illuminator, look at the angle that matches your lens and look for something that has an effective range of 2-3X what the spec's say. I found some pretty decent low priced illuminators online for about $40 that are 45 degrees and effective range of 80m but do really well for the range that you are trying to cover.

 

No matter what you do, you will still get some noise at night and that's because that camera does not have noise reduction in it's firmware. The newer ACTi's do, not that one. That's not necessarily bad as noise reductions does the job with the noise by smoothing it over, but the trade off is the smoothed over noise comes at a price of lower detail. So for me, I would rather take an image with noise and better detail and use noise correction algorithms in Photoshop and some noise reduction plugins that I have control over in a forensic situation. Look at what the TV show CSI does with blurry and noisy images, amazing -

 

[bike_rider 0]

Thanks for the thoughts, but I'm way ahead of you here. There is a very powerful IR pointed right at that area. Like I said, the auto gain struggles because there is so little reflective material unless there is a person in the image. I think I can get it to work, but that day/night flip flop is my first issue.

[buellwinkle 0]

Nothing you can do about black sky or black asphalt. It's funny but I have the opposite problem in the front of my home. There's a street light across the street. it lights up the background great, you may think it looks great, but if someone comes between my camera and the street light, they are dark like a silhouette. So I have to have lighting to counteract that. So don't stress over lighting the scenary, this isn't a photo contest. Concentrate on the subject you are trying to capture and that person is lit pretty well. By overlighting you can blow out your subject, but you would have a prettier picture.

 

As for the day/night issue, yep, I have it on my TCM-1231 camera and all other ACTi cameras are fine. The only thing you can do is fill out a problem ticket with ACTi, enough people do it they may fix it.

[mike_va 0]

That is not a good picture at all, but for some reason the leaves are OK in the upper right. Is the IR pointing to where the person is?

 

I have a similar problem with a blacktop driveway, took a while to dial in. One thing that can help is adjusting the AGC down, if you have excess light. That does not look like this problem though.

[bike_rider 0]

The only effective illumination in that photo is from a pair of IR - one that is pointed right at the person/shrub and one that is incidentally hitting the treee. I'll admit, this is going to be tough to get right. The AGC (called AE by ACTi) will need to be turned way down to remove the noise and keep from over exposing the subject. on a scale of 1-100 (100 max), this image was set for 11. I've toned it down to 8. I also have to figure out how "brightness" plays into this.

 

Another thing I've found is that at night, the web interface on the camera is painfully slow. I think it is trying to deal with the large dark area and the camera's CPU just can't keep up.

 

So far, not thrilled with ACTi. I know this is a mid-tier camera, so I'm trying to not judge it like I would a top tier one. OTOH, that day/night flip flop is just stupid.

[thewireguys 3]

I have installed maybe 20 or so Acti cameras and I have no desire to sell or install them anymore. They have been reliable but quirky to setup and configure. I have also had 2 of them default to factory settings on their own and as you can see the night time performance isn't the best. Also not a big fan of the look and design of some of the cameras.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Guest

[buellwinkle 0]

If you have the camera setup with h.264 there will be considerable latency as it processes the video but if you set it to mjpeg or mpeg it will be as close to real time as an IP camera gets. I would make the AE closer to 50, even 100, 0-11 is way too low. I know it gets noisier but not that bad for a camera without noise reduction. If you really want better, get the KCM-5611, no snow.

[mike_va 0]

I have installed a maybe 20 or so Acti cameras and I have no desire to sell or install them anymore. They have been reliable but quirky to setup and configure. I have also had 2 of them default to factory settings on their own and as you can see the night time performance isn't the best. Also not a big fan of the look and design of some of the cameras.

One was enough for me, periodic artifacting and also a reset. Luckily was able to return...

[mike_va 0]

Another thing I've found is that at night, the web interface on the camera is painfully slow. I think it is trying to deal with the large dark area and the camera's CPU just can't keep up.

At night the bandwidth will be greater, especially if there is not enough light. So the camera's server is perhaps struggling.

[bike_rider 0]

If you have the camera setup with h.264 there will be considerable latency as it processes the video but if you set it to mjpeg or mpeg it will be as close to real time as an IP camera gets. I would make the AE closer to 50, even 100, 0-11 is way too low. I know it gets noisier but not that bad for a camera without noise reduction. If you really want better, get the KCM-5611, no snow.

 

Thanks, but I'm not talking about image latency, I'm talking about loading and rendering the setup interface.

 

In the thread about the 7811 (which I think has the same sensor at the 5311 - BTW, ACTi has the dumbest product naming conventions.), Ando specifically recommend 10-20 for night performance. If I'm not happy with the noise at 11, going to 50 is not going to put a smile on my face. Like I've said, I'll need to tinker with this to see if I can get it good enough.

 

Oddly, in the thread about the 7811, the screen about day/night switching has an option to delay switching back, but that doesn't show up on my screens.

[mike_va 0]

Thanks, but I'm not talking about image latency, I'm talking about loading and rendering the setup interface.

No prob, but the setup interface is also provided by the camera server.

[bike_rider 0]

Thanks, but I'm not talking about image latency, I'm talking about loading and rendering the setup interface.

No prob, but the setup interface is also provided by the camera server.

 

Sorry Mike, you lost me here. I already pointed the finger of slow night performace at the camera's CPU. Was there more that I missed?

[mike_va 0]

No, I think we are saying the same thing essentially. I have been fighting a bit of a migraine today...

[PeteCress 0]

.. Acti cameras .. have also had 2 of them default to factory settings on their own ...

 

Thanks for that one. I thought it was just me.

 

My KCM-5311E has reset to factory at least three times so far since I started burning it in on 8/7.

[bike_rider 0]

Following up here. The day/night flipping loop continues. It's annoying enough that I might send it back just because that's a stupid problem to have.

 

The night time image quality is getting better as I tune the settings. In my desired location there is little IR reflective material until a person enters the image. I have to set the Gain (AE reference setting) to about 5 to keep the camera from vainly trying to bring up the image brightness.

 

When I was comparing against the sony ch140, I noticed that at night, when the illumination changes, the Sony adjusts instantly but the ACTi takes about 3 seconds to settle down to the new light level. This isn't critical for me, but if the camera was inside, pointed at a door, when the door opened the camera would be overwhelmed for a few seconds.

[bike_rider 0]

The fun just keeps getting better. I decided to submit a ticket to ACTi support abut the day/night flip. Even though I included the server report file, that shows everything there is to know about the camera, their first email was "what firmware do you have?" After I answered that, they asked "Please so a reset and see what happens." WTF?

 

Then it gets really exciting. I had not looked at the on board storage because I doubt I'll use it. But I had a little time, so I thought I would take it for a spin to see how it compared to the Vivotek interface. Son of a gun - this thing does not have a slot for a card! The manual says it should, the ACTi's web site says it should. I'm going to see if I can return this stupid thing.

 

You won't see me recommending ACTi to anyone.

[PeteCress 0]

If you have the camera setup with h.264 there will be considerable latency as it processes the video but if you set it to mjpeg or mpeg it will be as close to real time as an IP camera gets. I would make the AE closer to 50, even 100, 0-11 is way too low. I know it gets noisier but not that bad for a camera without noise reduction. If you really want better, get the KCM-5611, no snow.

Is that to say that if bandwidth and disc space are not a consideration that MJPEG is a better choice - and H.264 is more for maximizing limited bandwidth and saving disc space?

[bike_rider 0]

This thing is going back. The distributor is surprised that it doesn't have local storage.

 

Overall a very unimpressive experience.

 

Am I dumb enough to buy a "better" ACTi to replace it? I hope not.