Motion sensor lights vs timer fixed lighting vs IR lights

[FlashEngineer 0]

So before I go ahead and start ripping my light fixtures outside my house, I'm wondering what is the best way of providing light for cameras/overall security?

 

I have 3 main areas that will have lighting, which do have the builder's outside/porch light, whatever you call them...

 

Main front door

Rear garage area

Backyard area/patio

 

Right now my main priority is main and garage.

 

Is it better to just setup a timer switch that will turn on the porch/garage light at sunset and turn off near sunrise?

 

Or should I convert those lights to sensor lights (not 175w floods) Just same porch light with a sensor

 

Or should I add additional floods as well

 

What about IR illuminators, should I add one anyway since they aren't visible?

[buellwinkle 0]

Motion detect lights have two problems, 1) all your pre-event frames will be unlit and to me, that's important to capture, 2) your camera takes time to adjust it's exposure settings, so the first few frames or more after motion is detected may be overblown, again, key frames that may be lost.

 

It's best to use day/night cameras and use either built in IR illuminators or external IR illuminators so as not to annoy neighbors with lights shining in their bedroom windows.

[Numb-nuts 1]

Motion detect lights have two problems, 1) all your pre-event frames will be unlit and to me, that's important to capture, 2) your camera takes time to adjust it's exposure settings, so the first few frames or more after motion is detected may be overblown, again, key frames that may be lost.

 

It's best to use day/night cameras and use either built in IR illuminators or external IR illuminators so as not to annoy neighbors with lights shining in their bedroom windows.

 

 

THIRD Lights going on set the camera's motion detection off, but lights going off also sets the motion detection off too. Better to have as suggested true day night cameras which have an IR cut filter during the day and at night the filter slides out of the way from the sensor. I always use a photo-electric sensor to trigger the IR cut filter to slide away from the sensor, and additional lighting can also be triggered as the natural light fades too. buellwinkle gave you good advice.

[FlashEngineer 0]

So best to have constant illumination with timer switches then? Forget any type of motion activated lights, weather floods or just fixtures?

 

I know the camera's will have a hard time adjusting exposure time so I guess motion activated is out of the equation.

 

Now if I place several external IR lights at the front door and garage, that should help with night vision.

[Kawboy12R 0]

I like motion lights for visiting people, but moths, wind, etc give many false motion events which gives you lots of extra recordings to watch that take up valuable time. I look for snoopers that DON'T do anything, because most of the problem around here involves unlocked cars (mine are almost always locked). I still want to know how often we have trespassers. Built-in IR gives lots of false positives due to moths, spiders, webs, fog, rain, you name it. Either a web or fog can make a cam record ALL night. We've got lots of spiders and lots of fog.

 

True day/night cameras with external IR in combination with motion sensing white lights with the sensitivity turned lowish for visitors (legit ones) to be able to see seems like a good compromise "here".

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

i've never know insects or wind to trigger a pir motion detector.

[Kawboy12R 0]

Some nights moths will keep my porch light on all night and it's located a couple of feet in front of the front doorway cam. The porch light draws MORE moths. Even without triggering the porch light, moths and spiders glow nicely in the camera IR and set the MD off. My light is set on sensitive for the convenience of folks on foot and to give a bit more light faster for the cameras but it has its drawbacks. There are most likely better lights with fewer false positives than mine. It was chosen mostly because it was a ceiling mount that had 360 degree detection in a downwards direction for mounting at the top of a long stairway. I'm also in a residential area of a small city so there's not a lot of ambient light and lots of insect and animal life around.

[everwake 0]

I tried a few options before deciding on what I call the "reverse mullet strategy" (party in the front, business in the back)

 

my thought where based more on what kind of message the lighting setup should be sending. and few things say "you're not welcome" like halogen floodlights, timer lights where ruled out simply to conserve energy.

 

when approaching my house from the front people are greeted by motion activated garden lights showing the way to my front door, normal guests do not even notice the IR floodlights, the motion activated lights guides people while the IR floodlights provide lighting for the day/night cameras.

 

when triggered the motion activated garden lights actually trigger my cameras, in my setup that is a benefit

 

at the back of my property I do not expect anyone to enter unless they are trespassing, so I use daytime cameras and halogens in the back, when greeted by 8000 lumens worth of lighting most normal people would take that as a que that they are not welcome, preframes from the cameras are however useless, but since the PIR triggers at a distance where I can not make an ID anyway it doesn't bother me, in the back the lighting serves as a deterrent.

 

In the backyard I can also switch off some of the floodlights which makes in possible for my kids to play outside even after dark, since my kids unfortunately can't see IR, white lights worked better

[buellwinkle 0]

Having IR illuminators that come on automatically at dusk is the best bet. I got some from China that were cheap and very effective. The brand is Okeba and it has 8 large LEDs and can project out 80m in a perfect world but I would vouch that they work to 80'. I got one on Amazon, one eBay, the prices range varies depending on if they include the power adapter (12V 2A) and runs from $35-45.

 

Even with cameras with built in illuminators, I use this to supplement in some cases for two reasons, having additional lighting from different angles provides better even lighting. Additional lighting means the camera does not have to use as much gain, meaning less noise. Even cameras with noise reduction benefit as sometimes they look blurry just from the noise correction. They also save on disk space. Noise creates larger files as it doesn't compress as well. Last thing is video motion detection can be tricky at night as noise can be interpreted as motion, again using up more disk space.

[voip-ninja 0]

Buell are you using the ones sold under the brand name "CMVision"? I looked into those but the lack of PoE and the narrow beam field (30 degrees) made them pretty useless for my application.

 

I have seen some pretty good looking IR 90 degree units with 75' range that do PoE and sell for about $300 that I have been tempted to try, since it would realistically cost less than a really good day/night camera with integrated IR.

 

I would probably still have to go integrated IR at my entries since I would need IR that could be motion triggered as well as adjust the intensity to avoid that overblown image exposure problem that seems to plague most IR systems when people are only 5' away from the camera and IR.

[buellwinkle 0]

No, these are Okeba, 45 degrees and 12V, not PoE but about $40 is a good deal and I think you can get them a 110V too. The problem with PoE is I have to run another PoE line to the location of the illuminator, PoE is limited in practice to 15W (unless you get some pretty pricy 30-60W midspans) so you won't see 80m rated lights on PoE and then I need to give up ports on my switch just to power a light. I have outlets under the eaves of my house for holiday lights, so in my case, PoE was not the way to go.

[voip-ninja 0]

No, these are Okeba, 45 degrees and 12V, not PoE but about $40 is a good deal and I think you can get them a 110V too. The problem with PoE is I have to run another PoE line to the location of the illuminator, PoE is limited in practice to 15W (unless you get some pretty pricy 30-60W midspans) so you won't see 80m rated lights on PoE and then I need to give up ports on my switch just to power a light. I have outlets under the eaves of my house for holiday lights, so in my case, PoE was not the way to go.

 

Yes, I understand, I don't see those lights for sale on Amazon or eBay at the moment.

 

I have no outlets under the eaves so I would have to have an electrician put them in, for me (telecom guy) running CAT5 is a snap and poe injectors are cheap.

 

Axton makes ones that have great range and viewing angle and use 12 watts. I have been tempted to order one but they are kind of expensive.

 

http://axtontech.com/at-6e-megapixel-ip-infrared-illuminator-850-nm/

[buellwinkle 0]

Here's some links. I'm not promoting the sellers, just answering a question about not finding it on Amazon and eBay. Also, whats the difference in running low voltage 12V to a power supply in your house vs. running PoE?

 

12V version -

http://www.amazon.com/OKEBA-vision-Infrared-Illuminator-Standard/dp/B007SSU0L6/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1350612371&sr=8-6&keywords=80m+ir+illuminator

 

110V version

http://www.amazon.com/vision-Infrared-Illuminator-Camera-visual/dp/B008JSLJEG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1350612371&sr=8-4&keywords=80m+ir+illuminator

 

eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-8-LED-80m-263-Feet-Night-vision-IR-Infrared-Illuminator-80m-For-CCTV-Camera-/180864325285?pt=US_Surveillance_Gadgets&hash=item2a1c5a96a5

[voip-ninja 0]

Do those units have auto on/off based on an ambient light sensor? I might get one since they are pretty cheap just to try it out.

 

Also, I was not aware it was easy to run in-wall 12V cable, I thought 12V was for shorter runs.

[Numb-nuts 1]

 

True day/night cameras with external IR in combination with motion sensing white lights with the sensitivity turned lowish for visitors (legit ones) to be able to see seems like a good compromise "here".

 

This is your best solution. Look for a true day night camera they should have a IR cut filter that cuts IR during the day and at about dusk or when lightlevels drop the cut filter slides out of the way of the sensorallowing the camera to take advantage of natural IR light and even amplify it (AGC) but if you use AGC expect a little noise in your image as it gets darker.

[buellwinkle 0]

Do those units have auto on/off based on an ambient light sensor? I might get one since they are pretty cheap just to try it out.

 

Also, I was not aware it was easy to run in-wall 12V cable, I thought 12V was for shorter runs.

 

Yes, they have a photocell that turns it on at dusk and turns it off at dawn automatically.

 

I have Malibu Lights on a about 100' of wire running my landscape lights at 12V. I would imagine if you run the landscape burial grade wire, it can go for a pretty long run with minimal loss.

[FlashEngineer 0]

Lots of replies.... " title="Applause" />

 

I've been reading up on lighting and security, it seems having a light on all night, may not deter crime as much as people think, more as a placebo. If anything, motion lights may work better.

 

I ordered one of those IR lights you recommended, it's just too bad they are white, I would wanted something in black color, do you know if some other brands are worthwhile to buy as well?

 

My plan now is to get IR illuminators for the back/front and rear yard, then put up some motion lights for those areas. The yard will have some landscape lighting, low lumens.

 

I think this is a good idea? Anyone else have other opinions?

 

Bad thing is, I have to replace the Dahua camera since it's useless at night unless there's white light.

[buellwinkle 0]

You have to get their cameras with IR cut filters like the IPC-HFW3200C andIPC-HFW2100. They have a 3mp vandal dome with an IR cut filter and no IR that may be good to use with what you proposed.

 

If you have motion detect lights together with IR it's better than without IR because the pre-event frames will be lit and the frames during the event may be OK or washed out depending on how fast the camera can respond to the light change but the change won't be as dramatic as no light to full light, so it may work out well.

[kifaru 0]

Motion lights in combination with IR lights is a very good mix. I too use the same Okeba IR lights. I first tried the 15 LED light & got overexposed pictures. I ended up switching to the 8 LED version.

You will have to find a good spot to mount the lights. If you are not a fan of the white casing, you could also paint it. Overall you will like the IR lights at that price point.

[salesguy 0]

For my outdoor floodlights I started using the honeywell automatic timer that utilizes your longitude & latitude to adjust for sundown and turns the lights on based on that schedule (plus you can offset if you want). Great little timer and more reliable than photosensors in my opinion.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Econoswitch-RPLS740B-Programmable-Switch/dp/B004AP92N2/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_0

[voip-ninja 0]

For my outdoor floodlights I started using the honeywell automatic timer that utilizes your longitude & latitude to adjust for sundown and turns the lights on based on that schedule (plus you can offset if you want). Great little timer and more reliable than photosensors in my opinion.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Econoswitch-RPLS740B-Programmable-Switch/dp/B004AP92N2/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_0

 

I actually have one of those switches controlling my porch lights and I agree that it is great. However, I don't have any plan to leave outdoor flood lights on at night.... for one thing, my neighbors would really not appreciate it since my gigantic house would look like a military compound with floods covering all of the areas that I intend to put cameras.

 

I am going to go with IR illumination of some kind. Axis is late with their integrated IR, so I am going to purchase one of the cheap IR illuminators previously mentioned as well as one of the better Axton 12V models and compare them to see how I should go for the rest of the deployment.

 

Unfortunately I have been slammed with work so zero time to do any of this right now.