Dahua Cameras and NVR Questions...

[breezin 0]

I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a Dahua IP camera setup for my home. Here are the cameras I’m planning on:

 

2 x IPC-HFW3200C (2.0 Megapixel Bullet)

1 x IPC-HDB3200C (2.0 Megapixel Mini-Dome)

2 x IPC-HFW2100 (1.3 Megapixel Mini Bullet)

 

Now I had originally planned on going with a Dahua NVR3216 NVR… but it appears that the 16 channel is limited to 8 x 720p streams or 4 x 1080p streams. Now I assume that I can mix and match and run my three 2.0 Megapixel cameras at 1080p and then still have room for the two 1.3 Megapixel cameras at 720p? However this would pretty much max out my NVR and give me no room for expansion.

Considering the above… would I be better off just building out a Mini-ITX system with a low voltage Intel i7 processor and running Blue Iris, NVR+, etc? Are there any downsides to doing this that would push me towards just going with the maxed out Dahua NVR?

 

Also, while trying to figure out my storage needs I’m curious what the general consensus is on recording. Do most people record all cameras 24/7 or is it common to have things setup to only record off events like motion or input from you alarm system?

 

Thanks!

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

where are you planning to get this equipment from? if you're getting it from a reputable vendor, they should be able to provide it already updated with firmware that expands that capability substantially.

[breezin 0]

where are you planning to get this equipment from? if you're getting it from a reputable vendor, they should be able to provide it already updated with firmware that expands that capability substantially.

 

I'm looking at either Empire Security or a distributor in China that has been very helpful. Both of which have said they have firmware available post purchase.

 

Are we talking about factory firmware? What would the new specs be? I find it odd that they wouldn't update their system specs after releasing firmware that significantly improves performance.

[cherrywae 0]

Now I assume that I can mix and match and run my three 2.0 Megapixel cameras at 1080p and then still have room for the two 1.3 Megapixel cameras at 720p?

If you take 16CH NVR, only support 4CH 1080P,8CH 720P,16CH D1 quality.

So if you run real time for three 2mp camera at 1080p, it means 30fps x3=90fps, so you only have 30fps left, so you can now run another two 1.3mp at 720p in real time.

[MaxIcon 0]

The plus of a PC based system is that you can change the NVR software relatively easily if one solution doesn't work for you. The dedicated NVR you mention will be maxed out from the outset, and if you want to move on, you'll need to start all over.

 

PC systems generally take more fiddling with, but are much more flexible and configurable.

 

Blue Iris with a recent I5 or I7 processor will handle the 7+MP you have listed without any trouble, and still have room for more, though it can start to bog down on 3+MP cams. There are lots of other NVR software packages that you could test demos of, as well.

 

I have a 16 channel Aver NV6480 running about 24MP with 14 cams on an older i3-540 mini-ITX box, and it's handling it just fine. BI running on an identical dedicated box bogs down when I go much above 6MP, though my i5-2500 box has a lot more headroom for BI.

[breezin 0]

I'm leaning towards just going with the Dahua NVR. I didn't realize that when they said you are limited to 4 streams of 1080p that it was at a full 30 frames per second. I could do 8 streams of 1080p at 15 fps. I would assume that even 5 frames per second would be enough to get the job done from a security standpoint... but would be extremely unpleasant to watch.

 

How do these camera stream to your network? Can I run multiple solutions? Dahua NVR and also run a PC based system?

[buellwinkle 0]

One advantage of going with software instead of their NVR is you can mix/match brands. Also, the NVR is limited to 1080P (2MP) but you can get the HFW3300C that is 3MP for about $10 more. Also, the Dahua NVR web interface is not very good and to me, remote access is important.

 

For what its worth, I tried both, buying Dahua in the U.S. or in China and I get much better selection and better customer service going the China route. First, they don't have a language barrier talking to Dahua to help you with a camera probem and they selection is huge, including PTZ cameras and 3 and 5MP cameras. It takes about 2-3 days to get the cameras from China.

[breezin 0]

Blah, remote access is pretty much top of my list of importance. I also would like to integrate the camera system with my alarm system (Elk M1). The reason I found Dahua in the first place was that they offer an SDK Tool for their cameras. I currently get a text message from my alarm system if someone rings the door bell and the system is armed to away (no one home). I'd like to do things like include a short video clip or at least a screen shot of the front door camera to see who it is. If the SDK is any good my options would be limitless.

 

I'll probably stick with Dahua for my cameras so multi-vendor support isn't much of an issue for me. I did notice that that the IPC-HFW3300C (3MP) was only $15 more than the IPC-HFW3200C (2MP). Seems crazy that their NVR system won't support the numerous camera that they offer in the 3MP+ range. I've been dragging my feet on a purchase in the hopes of the new IPC-HFW3200S (2MP Mini Bullet) being released. Having the Sony Exmor CMOS in the small Mini-Bullet form factor would my ideal camera I think.

 

I order both from the USA and China on a regular basis... I've had good and bad luck from both. But I do want to say that Cherry Wae has been absolutely outstanding when in comes to pre-sales support. She has answered all of my questions regarding Dahua products and even going directly to Dahua when she didn't have the answer herself. At this point I'd have a hard time giving anyone other than Cherry my business... regardless of price.

 

So I guess I'm back on the fence deciding between Dahua NVR or a PC based solution. I've followed a few threads by voip-ninja in his struggle to find the perfect PC based software solution and it really doesn't seem like there is that easy go to answer.

[buellwinkle 0]

I would use software for the camera recording because that's the most flexible and can grow as you needs grow. Check out NVR+ software from Linovision, it worked really well with Dahua and has iPhone and Android apps and a web interface. You can download a demo version and try it. Uses very little CPU which is nice. The reason I don't use NVR+ is because it doesn't work with many brands of cameras and doesn't support my other cams.

 

As for alerting you, the HFW3200C should do that fine. It has alarm inputs, so you can have to attached to a bell button and relay. When that goes off, it closes the circuit and then in the camera you set up an event that's triggered on the alarm input. In the event, you can have it send you an email, text message, ftp video or trigger alarm output, for example, you can have it trigger a solenoid that fires a machine gun or a chime, your choice. This will not work on the cheaper Dahua cameras as they don't have alarm i/o.

[breezin 0]

Well with the commercial NVRs they have alarm inputs... which really removes the requirement of having the inputs on the cameras themselves. Are their PC Cards that take alarm inputs which can be used in a similar way with the software?

[breezin 0]

From the NVR+ specification page:

 

"Alarm sensor input / relay output control (requires IO card)"

 

So I guess this is possible...

[charris 0]

What about Dahua's VMS software on a pc or server? Does it still have the channel limitations?

[Agentchuckles 0]

I would use software for the camera recording because that's the most flexible and can grow as you needs grow. Check out NVR+ software from Linovision, it worked really well with Dahua and has iPhone and Android apps and a web interface. You can download a demo version and try it. Uses very little CPU which is nice. The reason I don't use NVR+ is because it doesn't work with many brands of cameras and doesn't support my other cams.

 

As for alerting you, the HFW3200C should do that fine. It has alarm inputs, so you can have to attached to a bell button and relay. When that goes off, it closes the circuit and then in the camera you set up an event that's triggered on the alarm input. In the event, you can have it send you an email, text message, ftp video or trigger alarm output, for example, you can have it trigger a solenoid that fires a machine gun or a chime, your choice. This will not work on the cheaper Dahua cameras as they don't have alarm i/o.

 

Did you prefer Linovision NVR+ software over the Dahua NVR for use with dahua cameras?

[breezin 0]

I did get a reply back from NVR+ with info on their PC alarm card/box solutions:

 

Yes, our PC based NVR+ software support alarm I/O box or alarm I/O card. please see attached the detailed specification.

 

Price:

Alarm-0804 Card: 75USD;

Alarm-0808 Box: 89USD;

Alarm 1608 Box: 109USD.

Note: the price quoted FOB China.

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8924983/Alarm%20Card%20Introduction.pdf

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8924983/Alarm-0808%20%20Introduction.pdf

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8924983/Alarm-1608%20%20Introduction.pdf

[buellwinkle 0]

Did you prefer Linovision NVR+ software over the Dahua NVR for use with dahua cameras?

 

Yes, a lot better. The NVR was OK, but had limitations like 1080P, number of cameras, frame rate. Also the smartphone apps and webserver worked better. Download and try it. The only people I would recomend the NVR to are people that already have a DVR and are switching to network cameras and are used to it that way. If you get the NVR, count on using PSS to view the cameras from a PC and it's not intuitive software to use.

 

Many people have an idea of how many cameras they want, until the get everything installed and then wish they can add one more, then another, and another. For example, there was a lot of mail box theft in the hood, and I thought about having a camera pointed at the mailbox or maybe putting a camera in the garage in case someone breaks in that way. So many possibility, don't wanted be limited by an NVR.

 

As for Alarm I/O, you can do it in camera, not use the NVR or software to do it. There's no reason you can't do both, record using software or an NVR and trigger events in the camera from alarm input. I would not buy a board or box to do it, waste of money.

[breezin 0]

As for Alarm I/O, you can do it in camera, not use the NVR or software to do it. There's no reason you can't do both, record using software or an NVR and trigger events in the camera from alarm input. I would not buy a board or box to do it, waste of money.

 

Ok, first off know I don't even have my system ordered so everything at this point is planning in my head. My thought on the above is that it would be a pain to drag that alarm cable out to each of the cameras, when going from the alarm panel to my wiring closet is easy. Then on top of the extra work you end up with less flexibility. For example I have driveway motion sensor and plan to have 3 cameras in the front. My assumption is that I could take that single alarm event (motion sensor trigger) send to the NRV/PC-NVR and then trigger events on all 3 of the front cameras at once. Now if someone rings the door bell with the alarm in away mode that would be a alarm input at the NRV/PC-NVR and I would only trigger an event on the entry way camera. Third, if the alarm system actually goes off I might want to trigger events on all my cameras at the same time (not really sure what... maybe start saving video to the camera memory cards?)

 

The complexity of trying to pull all of that off at the camera alarm inputs doesn't seem to the be the best solution. It would require multiple alarm inputs at some of the cameras. That's my take at least... and I have no practical experience so I might be way off base. If I'm missing something here please point it out as it will effect my planning (like going with some of the mini-bullet cameras that have no alarm inputs)

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

the dahua mini-bullets and mini-domes i've used don't have alarm inputs anyway, so it makes that idea kind of moot. you're right, the way you're planning it is the easiest and most flexible.

 

i can't speak for most others, but the dahua nvrs should allow you some very flexible options for each alarm input - such as triggering different record modes on multiple cameras, etc.

[dexterash 0]

DAHUA's 3216 has 16 alarm inputs and 3 alarm outputs that can be controlled from the SDK, so that might do the trick for your "custom" solution.

 

As from my experience, I would never rely on a PC as a NVR (unless it has a dedicated operating system with a dedicated hardware that has watchdogs and other critical features for a security system) if there is a dedicated system that can do that.

 

Want more channels? Add more NVRs. (if you sum up the costs of additional hardware vs costs of energy, you will get my point).

Want a better interface(although DAHUA's DMSS it's one of the best)? Use a proxy server or get a custom solution from someone.

[breezin 0]

I'm right on the fence here... not really sure if I should go with commercial NVR or a homebrew NVR. Either one will probably meet my needs.

 

How is network data handled with IP camera systems? Are transmissions sent via Unicast or Multicast on the network? If I decide to run both a commercial NVR and a homebrew at the same time am I going to end up doubling my network traffic (Unicast) or is Multicast an option so I can add as many NVR devices I want off the a single data stream?

 

Thanks!

[ak357 0]

I'm right on the fence here... not really sure if I should go with commercial NVR or a homebrew NVR. Either one will probably meet my needs.

 

How is network data handled with IP camera systems? Are transmissions sent via Unicast or Multicast on the network? If I decide to run both a commercial NVR and a homebrew at the same time am I going to end up doubling my network traffic (Unicast) or is Multicast an option so I can add as many NVR devices I want off the a single data stream?

 

Thanks!

simple

Create separate subnet for IP cameras

[breezin 0]

simple

Create separate subnet for IP cameras

 

I already plan to use network segmentation for my ip camera system. I'm just not sure how much bandwidth is used by these 3MP cameras... combined with the fact that most of the PoE switches I've looked at are 10/100. So the thought of doubling my traffic just so I can play with multiple NVR solutions is of some concern.

[ak357 0]

simple

Create separate subnet for IP cameras

 

I already plan to use network segmentation for my ip camera system. I'm just not sure how much bandwidth is used by these 3MP cameras... combined with the fact that most of the PoE switches I've looked at are 10/100. So the thought of doubling my traffic just so I can play with multiple NVR solutions is of some concern.

U worry too much

your cam in average will not take more then 4-10 mb each

then u put second NIC for separate subnet

if u know what I mean

[breezin 0]

U worry too much

 

Haha, my wife says the same thing!

 

4-10 MB isn't bad. Thanks for the info.