WHich camera, vivotek or d-link for this specific purpose ?

[szjozsi 0]

hello. we plan to install a CCTV system in our company, at least 8 cameras. I would like to know if we should use D-link or Vivotek cameras . however there are some restrictions or problems:

 

1. the whole camera system would be on a different subnet, so not directly connected to our LAN or internet (for traffic and security reasons).

2. Due to the extreme amount of data (8 cameras) i am thinking of a NAS system with 4 pieces of 3TB HDD in RAID 5 so 9 TB free space, on ethernet

 

If needed, a 'server' would be installed with recording software and 2 ethernet cards, one is for this subnet, the other would be connected to the other LAN which we use for PC connection and to connect to the Internet.

 

2 cameras would be in a production area where no recording is needed but live feed and the manager wants to see an MMS or a pic sent to his phone by email whenever he wants. (ok maybe 1-2 frame/sec recording simultaneously, but this is not yet decided)

 

The other cameras would record in case of motion in 1200x800/10 fps minimum resolution and frame rate, some cameras at critical points at 15fps and 1280x1024 . we would use the NAS and gigabit LAN. is it enough? we want to store 8-20 days of recording.

 

My question: is it possible to set up such system and what are the best types for it, vibotek or dlink? is the above described solution possible with this config/cameras (MMS, email, etc). note: the production area cameras are not in motion detection mode, they make live feed and the transmit it to mobile phone or email only if requested (or record 1 pic/s onto a folder and this image is sent to mobile when requested-equally acceptable solution.) please let me know.thanks

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

first, ditch the d-link switch for your cameras. i've used similar models on a couple sites now and had no end of problems with them.

 

second, you want a switch with poe, so you don't have to power the cameras separately. i've used cisco's "small business" line of managed switches on numerous sites and always been happy with them. the sg300-10p is a great little unit - 8 poe ports for cameras and two uplink ports, all gigabit.

 

third, your setup should work, *if* you're running an smtp server or some sort of smtp forwarding on your recorder. i've done this in the past on sites with a similar network layout: ran a small smtp service on the nvr and then pointed the nas and cameras to that for their alert emails.

 

fourth, do yourself a favor and *don't* set the cameras to email/mms on motion detection.

 

fifth, i wouldn't use vivotek or d-link cameras if my life depended on them.

[aibudo 0]

A bit of "overkill" in my opinion. 8-20 days of video would be no issue at all. "NO" on the email on motion, unless it is a location with no windows and there is absolutely no reason for anyone to be there or any light changes. Been there, done that. As an example, I just had a sight that I tried to talk a business owner out of email motion alerts. Didn't listen. He said that when the business is closed he wanted to know anytime there was anything being picked up by motion. Changed his mind real quick. Anytime a headlight, ambulance or police car flashing lights went by his front windows, he was getting an email alert.

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

if you want to simplify, get a nas that has nvr capabilities itself, rather a separate dedicated pc.

 

http://www.synology.com/surveillance/index.php?lang=us

[szjozsi 0]

hello. many thanks for the info.

 

however some things are not clear.

 

1. what is the problem with dlink switch? we have them and no problem. earlier we had linksys swittch and it was a disaster, it turned out that the capacitors inside were liquid not solid based. cheap chinese generic capacitors. I heard that cisco has low quality of switches, linksys was also bought by cisco.

 

2. if we buy an sg300-10p unit as you suggested and we have 8 cameras and want 1-2 more, we are out of options.

 

3. we do not have problem to power the cameras separately, altough the solution you mentioned is better. but i do not want cisco swicth.

 

4. you misunderstood. we do not want motion detection emails. what we want is to see the picture of the camera from outside whenever we need to. so the camera (or server or nvr) only sends it if an OUTSIDE request is initiated by the user. is this possible? (without a PC only if i have a mobile phone with MMS capabilities).

 

5. what's your problem with vivotek and dlink cameras? what type do you suggest then? (minimum 1.3 mpixel)

 

 

 

first, ditch the d-link switch for your cameras. i've used similar models on a couple sites now and had no end of problems with them.

 

second, you want a switch with poe, so you don't have to power the cameras separately. i've used cisco's "small business" line of managed switches on numerous sites and always been happy with them. the sg300-10p is a great little unit - 8 poe ports for cameras and two uplink ports, all gigabit.

 

third, your setup should work, *if* you're running an smtp server or some sort of smtp forwarding on your recorder. i've done this in the past on sites with a similar network layout: ran a small smtp service on the nvr and then pointed the nas and cameras to that for their alert emails.

 

fourth, do yourself a favor and *don't* set the cameras to email/mms on motion detection.

 

fifth, i wouldn't use vivotek or d-link cameras if my life depended on them.

[szjozsi 0]

if you want to simplify, get a nas that has nvr capabilities itself, rather a separate dedicated pc.

 

http://www.synology.com/surveillance/index.php?lang=us

 

wow, thanks. it seems good, but how does it work? it's just a storage unit or more? to set the cameras to where and when to record i still need a PC and the management software. or it can be set on the cameras via the web interfcace and then i do not need a server? how can i see the live feed then? only camera by camera? if i want to see the feed of 3-4 cameras simultaneously i still need a server with management software, aren't i? many thanks

[szjozsi 0]

one more thing:

one of the cameras are approx 250 m away so we have to use optical cabeling. does power over ethernet work on optical cables?

we may need 1-2 more cameras which are far so optic cabeling is needed. so if poe only works on TP cables, poe switch is not much of a use for us.

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

1. what is the problem with dlink switch? we have them and no problem. earlier we had linksys swittch and it was a disaster, it turned out that the capacitors inside were liquid not solid based. cheap chinese generic capacitors. I heard that cisco has low quality of switches, linksys was also bought by cisco.

cisco has always been one of the *big* names in networking (cisco network certification used to be one of the *the* certifications companies looked for their techs to have, long before mcse came to mean anything). linksys used to be troublesome - in fact, there was a time if a customer had a linksys router, i'd recommend replacing it right away because they were so flaky - but they've improved a lot since being bought by cisco.

 

i used to use d-link exclusively, and their 5- and 8-port desktop switches are okay for a few lower-res cameras... but these days their quality has plummeted. on some subcontract work recently, we were provided eight-port (four poe, four non-poe) d-link switches to handle two or three 2mp cameras per site... of a dozen or so installs, four of those switches have had to be swapped out later because of problems; another three were doa and had to be replaced before the site could go online. i used an 8poe+2 d-link switch on another site with eight 1080p cameras and had it choking constantly on the traffic; when they wanted to add more cameras, i replaced it with a 24poe+2 trendnet switch that's been running flawlessly.

 

suffice to say, i don't trust d-link anymore for anything more than a basic home network. been burned on customer sites too many times. meanwhile, i've now used versions of the cisco 8poe+2 switches (as various model lines have been discontinued/replaced) on sites for almost five years now, and every one of them has been rock solid. one site has eight cameras ranging from 1.3mp to 5mp and the switch hasn't even broken a sweat.

 

our latest site has 50-60 cameras (final number yet to be determined), a mix of analog and ip, spread over four floors; i spec'd three cisco sg200-26p switches (24 gigabit poe ports, two gbe uplinks and two mini-gbic slots) for it. on a job worth well into the five-figure range, i wouldn't do that if i didn't trust them to handle it.

 

if we buy an sg300-10p unit as you suggested and we have 8 cameras and want 1-2 more, we are out of options.

then look at the sg200-26p and have room to grow for a long time. there's also the sf300-24p which has 24 10/100 poe ports instead, but that only saves about $100 over the all-gig model.

 

unfortunately there seems to be very little out there for poe switches between 8 and 24 ports; lots of times i wish for a 12 or 16.

 

we do not have problem to power the cameras separately, altough the solution you mentioned is better. but i do not want cisco swicth.

have it your way. poe is the way to go - even if you already have power to your existing camera locations, it makes it far, far easier if you're adding more cameras later. it also allows you to remote-power-cycle the cameras from the switch's management interface.

 

just keep in mind that easily half the d-link poe switches i've used recently have had issues, either with the power or with handling the heavier network traffic, or both. meantime out of at least a couple dozen ciscos in use (including some sites with up to 15 cameras) i've never had one fail.

 

what we want is to see the picture of the camera from outside whenever we need to. so the camera (or server or nvr) only sends it if an OUTSIDE request is initiated by the user. is this possible? (without a PC only if i have a mobile phone with MMS capabilities)

this is easy with a smartphone - you just run a mobile client for your nvr. fire it up on your phone and view whatever cameras you want. some also support playback of recorded video.

 

as for mms... many nvrs have the ability to send alerts by email and sms/mms, but i'm not aware of any that will do it on a user-initiated remote signal (eg. sending the nvr a text message saying 'send me a picture'). even *if* you rigged up something to allow the nvr to respond to a trigger text (maybe a cheap phone wired into an alarm input) this would potentially be highly unreliable as i've seen it take several seconds to several hours for a text message to be delivered. if you need to see what's happening *right now*, a smartphone with client app is the way to go.

 

this is a screenshot of the synology app for android:

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

if you want to simplify, get a nas that has nvr capabilities itself, rather a separate dedicated pc.

 

http://www.synology.com/surveillance/index.php?lang=us

 

wow, thanks. it seems good, but how does it work? it's just a storage unit or more? to set the cameras to where and when to record i still need a PC and the management software. or it can be set on the cameras via the web interfcace and then i do not need a server? how can i see the live feed then? only camera by camera? if i want to see the feed of 3-4 cameras simultaneously i still need a server with management software, aren't i? many thanks

the unit is linux-based and is essentially running its own linux-based nvr application. it records, indexes, and allows you to search and playback video. you can access it via its own web interface, or via a mobile client app. pretty sure synology has a live demo of it on their site. others like qnap make similar nas boxes as well. from a user's perspective they aren't much different from a dedicated pc-based nvr.

 

one of the cameras are approx 250 m away so we have to use optical cabeling. does power over ethernet work on optical cables?

we may need 1-2 more cameras which are far so optic cabeling is needed. so if poe only works on TP cables, poe switch is not much of a use for us.

no, poe does not work over fiber... but then, 250m is an extremely long run for a home-run power cable as well. you'd have to power those cameras locally no matter what. if you have two cameras at that distance, you're probably better off to put a switch like the eight-port cisco in there, connect the cameras to that, then connect the fiber back via the appropriate module in one of the mini-gbic ports.

 

missed this one before:

what's your problem with vivotek and dlink cameras? what type do you suggest then? (minimum 1.3 mpixel)

d-link cameras are toys. i've used a couple of better vivotek models (in the $800+ range) but what i've seen of their low-end stuff has been toy-like as well.

 

there are lots of better cameras out there, it's hard to recommend anything specific without knowing the exact requirements and budget. our latest job is using a mix of dahua, hikvision and axis cameras; others recently have use these as well as iqeye, arecont, and the aforementioned higher-grade vivoteks.

 

one thing that comes to mind is that if you're using fiber, you're obviously not cheaping out on things, so i don't know why you'd want to cheap out on the switches and cameras.

[szjozsi 0]

many thanks you seem experienced, i may turn to cisco switches. but 8 port is enough for only 7 cameras as 1 port is for the NAS. also some cameras are far so poe won't work on fiber optic.

[szjozsi 0]

>this is easy with a smartphone - you just run a mobile client for your nvr

 

is a synology DS413 NAS capable of that? and what you mean run a mobile client? install a 3G USB dongle?

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

here's the live demo of the synology system: http://www.synology.com/products/dsm_livedemo.php?lang=us

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

many thanks you seem experienced, i may turn to cisco switches. but 8 port is enough for only 7 cameras as 1 port is for the NAS. also some cameras are far so poe won't work on fiber optic.

all the switches i listed above have separate uplink ports, include mini-gbic slots where you can install fiber transceivers. the eight-port models are eight poe ports, *plus* two uplink combo ports (combo meaning each can be either copper or fiber). same with the 24-port models: both have 24 poe ports plus at least two uplink ports.

 

there are lots of ways to work it, but there's no point getting into discussing actual network topology at this point.

 

>this is easy with a smartphone - you just run a mobile client for your nvr

 

is a synology DS413 NAS capable of that? and what you mean run a mobile client? install a 3G USB dongle?

no. this means you run a client app on your smartphone that connects via internet to the nas. see the picture i posted above.

[szjozsi 0]

no. this means you run a client app on your smartphone that connects via internet to the nas. see the picture i posted above.

 

the NAS would not be connected to the internet. that is the problem. it would be on a separate network, and even if it were connected to our LAn the LAN is protected by a PIX from the internet so external requests are not allowed. the only way now I see is to connect to our LAN via VPN and using a remote viewer to connect to a local PC which has 2 ethernet cards one is connected to the subnet and there to mount the NAS and to see it's content.

 

what I want is to "call" the NAS (ring it) and when it received a call it sends a picture to the number it was rung from. is this possible?

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

how would you "ring" the nas in the first place if it's not connected to the internet? for that matter, how would it send the reply email??

[ak357 0]

our latest job is using a mix of dahua, hikvision and axis cameras;

 

What VMS are you using ?

Thx

[gadgetguru69 0]

One thing to note with the Synology NAS units like the 1511+ i have they have dual NIC's in them. I use them to isolate the camera traffic on its own subnet and the other NIC for access to the unit.

[szjozsi 0]

can it be connected to a mobile phone via USB?

 

Anyway, if we can tunnel the port 5001 on the router to the NVR's IP address it may work on the internet as well. We use ssh this way.

[szjozsi 0]

One thing to note with the Synology NAS units like the 1511+ i have they have dual NIC's in them. I use them to isolate the camera traffic on its own subnet and the other NIC for access to the unit.

 

i plan a separate switch as well, but the essence of a switch is that the traffic is only between the nodes, so the caemra traffic does not interfere with other traffics. In case of old HUBs yes, but switch, no.