Would appreciate thoughts/comments on new cameras

[Kawboy12R 0]

The 6mm will do a 105 degree FOV. The 12mm will do 82 degrees at its widest.

what size sensor are you calculating for, aps-c?? on a 1/3" sensor (which i believe that axis uses), 6mm will give you 43 degrees horizontal; 12mm gives you 22 degrees.

 

I didn't calculate the field of view, I read it from the Axis spec sheet and quoted both cameras at their widest. I figured that when being used to cover a wide area like an entire backyard then he wouldn't be interested in max "zoom" (and therefore narrowest field of view) of either of them, so the main difference between the two for his use would be their max usable field of view. They'd be essentially the same in their overlapping range, but the 12mm model would be the one to have if he ever wanted to change it in the future from back yard duty to, say, trying to catch a face at a distant gate or something. The field of view of even the 6mm model is pretty narrow at max zoom though so, depending on mounting position, he's most likely to be using a single backyard cam for a very broad coverage. Even mounted in a corner, the 82 deg min FOV of the 12 won't cover the whole area.

[GrouchoBoucho 0]

6mm P3364 actually is 105 at 2.5mm which is great if you need wide coverage like a property corner.

that's what the axis spec sheet says... given a 1/3" sensor that doesn't really agree with most lens calculators, at least not for the most commonly used horizontal fov. i think axis is over-stating things on their ad copy.

[voip-ninja 0]

6mm P3364 actually is 105 at 2.5mm which is great if you need wide coverage like a property corner.

that's what the axis spec sheet says... given a 1/3" sensor that doesn't really agree with most lens calculators, at least not for the most commonly used horizontal fov. i think axis is over-stating things on their ad copy.

 

I don't think so actually since I have the camera wide open (2.5mm) at exactly the same location that had a Vivotek with an 88 degree FOV previously and the FOV with the P33 is noticeably larger. In fact I was surprised at how large the field of view was with the P33 compared to my Vivotek, and also how much sharper the image was at the edges when wide open. With the Vivotek the image was noticeably fuzzy in the corners.

[voip-ninja 0]

With the Vivotek in the same spot you could only see the edge of the garage (couldn't see the garage door at all) and you could only see 1/2 of the tree.

 

[buellwinkle 0]

I tend to think people want to get a lens that's too wide of an angle to be effective. Use the lens calculator to figure out if you have enough resolution with the wide lens to meet your goals in terms of being able to ID someone or read a license plate for example at a certain distance.

[voip-ninja 0]

I tend to think people want to get a lens that's too wide of an angle to be effective. Use the lens calculator to figure out if you have enough resolution with the wide lens to meet your goals in terms of being able to ID someone or read a license plate for example at a certain distance.

 

You might be right, but the way I look at it, I would like wider coverage so I at least know who is around, rather than my goal being facial identification of everyone who walks by, or the license plate of every car driving by. I actually have four cameras and a couple of them would definitely provide enough detail for facial identification of someone coming through a doorway for example.

 

In other words, I think that the goals of the residential security user are often different than that of a business.

[buellwinkle 0]

I'm just say rookies sometimes expect 1 camera to do too much. Sure, we have very wide angle coverage of an area and then have a few cameras with narrower focus to capture details, but just find that most rookies aren't looking at it that way.

[Hitch 0]

Hopefully this picture will help. I used "Paint" and my skills are not all that impressive....

 

Note that the little rectangles are supposed to represent doors. There is one in the front, middle of the house. There are three doors in the rear of the house. Two of the doors are between the brown areas (which are supposed to represent paver patios). There is also a third door pretty much right below where Cam 2 would go. So, my hope is that Cam 2 will pick up two doors and Cam 3 will pick up one door.

 

This first camera that I bought is the Axis P3364-ve 6mm. I was intending to place it at the yellow dot for "Cam 1". It would be mounted under the soffit on the second floor. Actually, my assumption is that all of the cameras will be mounted under the soffit. Drawing the picture was a pretty good exercise for me - although it's not to scale, which concerns me a bit.

 

As far as lighting, I have marked where I have the two flood lights (with motion sensors). They light up the area pretty well. In the front of the house, I have four lights (two on either side of the front door and two on either side of the garage doors).

 

For Cam 1 - I think I want something that is pretty wide. The wider coverage of the 6mm is probably a good thing for that location. Thoughts?

 

I would very much appreciate some thoughts on cameras for the rear of the house. I'd like to get that area addressed next. Then, depending on my thoughts (noting my rookie status), I'll figure out whether I should get a fourth camera for the front/right of the house. The tree close to that location may be a bit of an issue.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[buellwinkle 0]

First, what are your goals? Do you just want to see that there's a car in the driveway or a car drove by, that there's 4 people standing in front of you home or do you want to be able recognize someone you already know or be able to ID them?

 

Looking at the lens calculator, with the camera in the front, say it has a 2.8mm focal length, 720P, you should be able to recognize someone about 10' away, ID them in 5'. To me, that front camera is an overall event camera to see things happening but not to ID someone.

 

The rear makes more sense as you have 2 cameras covering the same area as one single front camera. Maybe a pair of 3MP will get you to the point you can ID someone at 20' with say a 3.6mm, or recognize someone at 30-35'. To me the rear is more important to protect as that's where I believe most theives would enter from.

[Kawboy12R 0]

For cam 1 (yellow dot), it is in a good spot for overview but in a bad spot for ID. I'd sacrifice some of the bird's eye view and place it directly over the door to the right of it (next to the tree) at a height of 7-8' (not on the second floor soffit). Most folks will naturally want to come through the door so that's probably the best spot to catch a face up fairly close. You won't get great coverage of the garage doors from there but the spot on your diagram isn't a great spot either. Not sure on the vertical layout of the garage, but I'm guessing the view from the yellow dot to well in front of the garage doors is mostly to completely blocked. Another cheaper indoor cam inside the garage looking out might be better than one on top of the garage doors looking out. That way you'll have coverage of folks touching your cars and coming in the house from the inside man-door.

 

Cam 2 (blue dot) is pretty good but I might move it to the corner to the right of it. It'll get a good view of anybody approaching it and give a better facial view of anybody going in the door closest to the top (north side) although not as good a view of someone coming in the door closest to the blue dot. Compromise there. Two doors should probably have two cameras.

 

Red dot (cam 3) is pretty good if the approach to the door it covers is from the top of the diagram but not so good if people are likely to approach from the east (assuming N is the top). Hoodies are common and not illegal to wear when walking the streets. My entrance cam is 5 feet to one side of my front door in a corner looking out at 45 degrees and most of the time I couldn't easily identify my paperboy because he's always wearing a hoodie and ballcap. Over a door, mounted low, and looking straight out gives the best chance of a good face shot but still lets you use a wide angle cam for the big picture.

 

I wouldn't mount any of them on second storey soffit. Too high gives a bad angle for faces even without hoodies and ballcaps and is an extra 10 feet away for pixel count (especially important on wide angle cameras) anyways. The down angle you'd require for coverage close to the house would negate the height advantage for distance overview. Down low and straight out and you can see what people are doing a long way off even if you can't recognize them.

[Hitch 0]

First, what are your goals? Do you just want to see that there's a car in the driveway or a car drove by, that there's 4 people standing in front of you home or do you want to be able recognize someone you already know or be able to ID them?

 

Looking at the lens calculator, with the camera in the front, say it has a 2.8mm focal length, 720P, you should be able to recognize someone about 10' away, ID them in 5'. To me, that front camera is an overall event camera to see things happening but not to ID someone.

 

The rear makes more sense as you have 2 cameras covering the same area as one single front camera. Maybe a pair of 3MP will get you to the point you can ID someone at 20' with say a 3.6mm, or recognize someone at 30-35'. To me the rear is more important to protect as that's where I believe most theives would enter from.

Thanks. This actually sounds good. The goal with the front camera is more of an event camera, as you say. I would like to see if someone/some people are in the drive way or if people are standing in the front of my house. At this point, that is what I want. Course, I completely agree with the comments above that I could very well change what I want later on. However, my thought is that I could always add the fourth camera to the front of the house and aim it down on the area from the driveway to the front door - more "zoomed in" than Cam 1. That would be to ID people, if I decide that I want that. Sounds like I will be OK with the first camera that I ordered.

 

I'll do some more digging on options for the rear cameras. I don't think my wife will be pleased with anything other than domes back there. Once I exclude anything but domes, outdoor ready, night/day, I am pretty much between the P3364-VE, the P3384-VE and the P3346-VE (the last being, of course, the 3MP camera). The P3346-VE, however, appears to be a generation older and doesn't have Lightfinder (which the 3364 and 3384 have) or WDR (which, I believe, just the 3384 has).

[voip-ninja 0]

P3364-VE has both lightfinder and WDR but the WDR is a bit noisy, I don't know if that's typical with WDR for other camera manufacturers or not. I will say that lightfinder is rather impressive technology, I've never seen images as good with little to no scene lighting as I get with the Axis cameras.

[buellwinkle 0]

True, only the 1MP camera has Lightfinder at the moment. So the choice would be to include illuminators, of course, that may look worse than a bullet cam with built in illuminators. Although you may be able to hide illuminators, for example, I have one in a pot with roses growing out of it. Also, external illuminators can carry further, be brighter, more light = less noise and more detail. Also, domes with illuminators are never perfect with light bleed, some are close, none are 100% immune to some reflections on the curved surface.

 

WDR implementations vary not only by manufacturer, but even different models within the same manufacturer as new technologies come out. I had one of ACTi's first WDR cameras, the TCM-1231 and it had lousy WDR, more the equivalent of turning contrast down. The KCM-5611 has their latest WDR and it works great, don't even know it's on except you get good detail in the shadows and can read plates at night with headlights on. Don't know if their new 1080P bullet and dome that will use the same sensor will also have the same WDR capabilities.

[Hitch 0]

For cam 1 (yellow dot), it is in a good spot for overview but in a bad spot for ID. I'd sacrifice some of the bird's eye view and place it directly over the door to the right of it (next to the tree) at a height of 7-8' (not on the second floor soffit). Most folks will naturally want to come through the door so that's probably the best spot to catch a face up fairly close. You won't get great coverage of the garage doors from there but the spot on your diagram isn't a great spot either. Not sure on the vertical layout of the garage, but I'm guessing the view from the yellow dot to well in front of the garage doors is mostly to completely blocked. Another cheaper indoor cam inside the garage looking out might be better than one on top of the garage doors looking out. That way you'll have coverage of folks touching your cars and coming in the house from the inside man-door.

 

Cam 2 (blue dot) is pretty good but I might move it to the corner to the right of it. It'll get a good view of anybody approaching it and give a better facial view of anybody going in the door closest to the top (north side) although not as good a view of someone coming in the door closest to the blue dot. Compromise there. Two doors should probably have two cameras.

 

Red dot (cam 3) is pretty good if the approach to the door it covers is from the top of the diagram but not so good if people are likely to approach from the east (assuming N is the top). Hoodies are common and not illegal to wear when walking the streets. My entrance cam is 5 feet to one side of my front door in a corner looking out at 45 degrees and most of the time I couldn't easily identify my paperboy because he's always wearing a hoodie and ballcap. Over a door, mounted low, and looking straight out gives the best chance of a good face shot but still lets you use a wide angle cam for the big picture.

 

I wouldn't mount any of them on second storey soffit. Too high gives a bad angle for faces even without hoodies and ballcaps and is an extra 10 feet away for pixel count (especially important on wide angle cameras) anyways. The down angle you'd require for coverage close to the house would negate the height advantage for distance overview. Down low and straight out and you can see what people are doing a long way off even if you can't recognize them.

Kawboy - Thanks for the suggestions. I am struggling with my internet today and didn't see your post, even though it is several hours old now.

 

I may very well move Cam 2 to where you suggested. That does look like a better location. As you noted, I am going to have to accept some compromises. For one, I have to recognize the WAF (wife-aversion factor). I don't think it will go over well for me to mount any cameras on the front of the house. In addition, the front of the house is brick. I don't want to mess with the brick. In addition, the tree to the right is not real wide but the top of it is over the second floor soffit. That's why the possible 4th Cam would can't be exactly in the top/right corner. In general, I can get away with soffit mounts, but the WAF will kick-in with cameras mounted 7 or 8 feet above ground.

 

Regarding Cam 1 and the vertical layout of the garage, I didn't know how to depict that. The best way that I can describe it is that the very top of the roof is a consistent, straight line across the middle of the house - about where the arrows are drawn showing how far away the neighbors are. The roof over the garage then slopes down to the front of the garage. As a result, garage roof will obstruct part of the driveway just in front of the garage doors, but not a lot.

[Kawboy12R 0]

I understand the unpredictability of the WAF. It's hard to predict my own WAF let alone yours. I can say that I've never seen anybody walk up to the house and look at my cameras though. Nobody but family that is. Anybody walking by, delivering packages, or visiting just seems to ignore them until I point them out or they see the monitor inside. My personal WAF was offset by the need to have something up that worked. The brick thing might be tricky, aesthetically with the contrast at least, but the WAF might be adjustable if you point out that most folks ignore them and that cameras really do work MUCH better down low. With a serious problem like you're having that might help.

[Hitch 0]

Here's a non-update update....

 

I have not received the IP cam. The shipper said it should have been delivered by now, so a ticket has been opened for someone to try to locate the package. Hopefully this gets sorted out soon so I can post regarding my thoughts and experience.

[voip-ninja 0]

Here's a non-update update....

 

I have not received the IP cam. The shipper said it should have been delivered by now, so a ticket has been opened for someone to try to locate the package. Hopefully this gets sorted out soon so I can post regarding my thoughts and experience.

 

I feel your pain. I bought a $400 SSD drive from an eBay seller with perfect feedback. The auction terms indicated Priority Shipping, but the clown sent it via first class mail (with delivery confirmation) in order to save a few bucks.

 

It was estimated to get delivered on the 18th but appears to have gone missing (left a sorting facility a week ago and disappeared)... if the dipstick had simply shipped it Priority as he indicated I would have it by now.

[Hitch 0]

That's pretty much where I am. I think the one rep. I spoke with said it was sent parcel post - so it would be the last to move from one location to another. It appears to have left a sort facility Jan. 13. No word since.

 

They said I should receive a call by COB tomorrow. If not, I should call them back. Guess I'll wait to contact the Amazon seller till then.

[Hitch 0]

Well, the camera showed up yesterday. Have to work today, but hope to start the install later today and finish tomorrow. Course, it's only 19* right now.

[voip-ninja 0]

Heater gets quite warm so you might want to watch out for that. Good luck.

[Hitch 0]

Voip - I have a question for you. Inside the camera, near where the networking cable plugs in, there is a wire with a red tag on it which says "Connect". It looks to already be connected and I don't see anything in the manual indicating that I need to do anything along those lines.

 

It's on one of the two bunches of wires shows in the picture below. I don't remember which one, but can check later and upload a photo if need be.

 

Thanks!

[voip-ninja 0]

Voip - I have a question for you. Inside the camera, near where the networking cable plugs in, there is a wire with a red tag on it which says "Connect". It looks to already be connected and I don't see anything in the manual indicating that I need to do anything along those lines.

 

It's on one of the two bunches of wires shows in the picture below. I don't remember which one, but can check later and upload a photo if need be.

 

Thanks!

 

If I recall, that's where the fan cable plugs in. If you remove the camera body from the housing you have to disconnect the fan. In both of my units, when I took them out of the box, the fan lead was connected already so it was pretty obvious.

[Hitch 0]

Well, the install went pretty well. Having more guts than brains, it was an interesting experience. I have several photographs on my phone, which I will try to upload later.

 

Anyway, I was hoping that I could access the soffit from the attic. I'm not the biggest guy, at 6'1" and 210, but I just couldn't get my body close enough to do the work. I ended up using a ladder and doing the work from the outside.

 

Some thoughts...

 

I have never messed with the soffit before, so it took me some time just to figure out how to be able to move it. I ended up pulling a piece of the plastic soffit away from a roofing nail. Not a big deal. At that point, I was able to pull the soffit away enough to see behind it. I marked where the roof joists were and then attached the drill template. I really appreciated the fact that the drilling template was sticky on the one saide. In hindsight, I should have removed the soffit and cut it down on the ground. My cut was pretty ugly. I need to clean that up a bit - as I don't want bees getting into my attic. I think I will use some non-expanding foam. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

After cutting the hole, I finally figured out how to remove a section of the soffit, which was probably only 8 or 10 inches wide. I ended up removing 2 sections. From there, I was able to mount a piece of wood that was about 1" thick. Away from the front of the house, there was a horizontal (header??) piece of wood which I laid the (new) board on. I put several screws through the 1" thick board into that horizontal piece. Closer to the front of the house, I connected the board to another piece of wood that ran vertical. For that attachment, I used two steel "L" brackets. It was probably over-kill when considering the weight of the camera, but it was solid and the last thing I need is for it to fall.

 

From there, I attached the drill guide again and cut the hole for the networking cable. I then attached the mounting bracket and removed the existing network gasket and replaced it with the gasket which was already on the networking cable provided (5 meter long cable). I then attached the unit casing, the camera and then the dome cover. I guessed at the positioning/angle for the camera and it worked out pretty well.

 

After fishing the wire around the attic and down to my office, I plugged in the PoE switch and fired it up. I then fired up the PC to set up the camera. I was able to assign a static IP for the camera. I also set my router (an Apple Time Capsule) to reserve an IP for the camera. Using the IP Utility, I was able to see that the camera worked. YES! " title="Applause" />

 

I then flipped the video 180* (it was upside down) and messed with the digitial zoom. I played with a couple other settings, but nothing seemed to improve the picture, so I went back to the defaults. The picture is great! Since it got dark even before I finished the install, I have yet to see the camera in the day time. I can't wait!

 

Returing to the install, I was able to format the SD card and connect the camera to my Synology server. I have no formal IT training, so that took a little trial and error. No big deal.

 

On camera/software setup side of things, I ended up spending the a fair amount of time trying to get port forwarding setup on my router and trying to get the AXIS Internet Dynamic DNS Service setup. No luck there. I couldn't get it done.

 

I installed Axis Camera Companion and it looks great. I think it was from there - not sure - that I first tried to setup the AXIS Internet Dynamic DNS Service. I pushed the Control Button and I could not get the AXIS Internet Dynamic DNS Service setup, so I tried to use IP Utility (which the help information said is the back-up). However, whenever I click "Register" next to "Register or update current domain name registration." I get a message which says "Failed to register domain name."

 

I'm not sure what I have done wrong/failed to do, so any help would be appreciated. Does anyone have experience setting up port forwarding on an Apple Time Capsule? When you go into "Port Settings" you can add a new setting. There are places to fill in a description (I used "AxisFront"). The "Private IP Address:" is set to the address which I assigned to the camera in the IP Utility (and which I confirmed it correct). Then, there are options for the following:

Public UDP Ports:

Public TCP Ports:

Private UDP Ports:

Private TCP Ports:

 

I understand that I should be forwarding port "80" but I wasn't sure which of the places above should have "80" added. I assume I never got it right as I think this is the reason that I could never get the AXIS Internet Dynamic DNS Service to register.

 

Help???

 

I'll have more thoughts tomorrow. Kinda beat after climbing the ladder and stairs so many times.... I hope you pro's have an assistant.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Guest

[Hitch 0]

Oh yea, VOIP, the reason for the "Connect" sticker is quite obvious now that I have gone through the install process. During the install, as you know, you can remove the camera from the unit casing. When you do so, you need to disconnect the wire. Once you snap the camera back in, you need to "Connect" the wire. The sticker is a good reminder.

[Hitch 0]

Still trying to figure this out....

 

I noticed that "NAT traversal (port mapping) for IPv4" says:

 

Attempting to configure NAT traversal.

If your AXIS P3364 Network Camera is located on an intranet, you might need to manually configure your NAT router to allow access from the other side.

 

I tried to use the option "Use manually selected NAT router: (LAN IP address)" but that didn't work - the message still read "Attempting to configure..."

 

Could that be my issue?