Would appreciate thoughts/comments on new cameras

[Hitch 0]

The Zyxel PoE switch arrived today. It was ordered from an Amazon seller and arrived in 2 days. Can't wait to get the P33.

[voip-ninja 0]

The Zyxel PoE switch arrived today. It was ordered from an Amazon seller and arrived in 2 days. Can't wait to get the P33.

 

Please followup in this thread when you get it going and get a chance to compare the Axis companion with the Surveillance Station. Interested in your thoughts.

 

One glitch you might run into is that with the most recent version of the Surveillance Station application from Synology, it will by default set your Axis camera to 0 degrees flip. If it is under an eave as you plan to do, you will need the camera 180 degrees and will have to set that in the Surveillance Station as it actually sends an instruction to the Axis camera now telling it what degrees it wants the camera rotation set at.

 

It's a bit annoying to have to make the change but not really a big deal.

 

One other thing... your P33 has a switch on the underside of the camera itself (take it out of the housing) that sets it for Class-3 PoE or Class-2 PoE. Mine were defaulted to Class 3, which is fine since I use Class-3 mis-spans. However, your Zyxel is almost definitely not a class 3 PoE source so you will probably need to set the Axis to Class-2 for it to power up.

 

I believe the only difference from the camera perspective is whether or not the heater are allowed to work (needs class 3 poe for that).

[Hitch 0]

Hhhmmmmm. Disappointing, I didn't know there was a difference - that there are PoE classes. Unfortunately, I do not see that specific information on the ZyXEL website. I did a search and found this information regarding the difference:

Network cables, such as Cat 5e and Cat 6, comprise eight wires arranged as four twisted pairs. In 10 and 100BASE-T Ethernet, two of these pairs are used for sending information, and these are known as the data pairs. The other two pairs are unused and are referred to as the spare pairs (Gigabit Ethernet uses all four pairs).

 

Because electrical currents flow in a loop, two conductors are required to deliver power over a cable. POE treats each pair as a single conductor, and can use either the two data pairs or the two spare pairs to carry electrical current.

 

Power over Ethernet is injected onto the cable at a voltage between 44 and 57 volts DC, and typically 48 volts is used. This relatively high voltage allows efficient power transfer along the cable, while still being low enough to be regarded as safe.

 

This voltage is safe for users, but it can still damage equipment that has not been designed to receive POE. Therefore, before a POE switch or midspan (known as a PSE, for power sourcing equipment) can enable power to a connected IP camera or other equipment (known as a PD, for powered device), it must perform a signature detection process.

 

Signature detection uses a lower voltage to detect a characteristic signature of IEEE-compatible PDs (a 25kOhm resistance). Once this signature has been detected, the PSE knows that higher voltages can be safely applied.

 

Classification follows the signature detection stage, and is an optional process. If a PD displays a classification signature, it lets the PSE know how much power it requires to operate, as one of three power classes. This means that PSEs with a limited total power budget can allocate it effectively. PoE power classes are as follows:

 

PoE Power Class.........1............2.............3

PSE Power available....4.0W.......7.0W......15.4W

Max device power......3.84W......6.49W....12.95W

 

The differences between power delivered by the PSE and power received by the PD account for power that is lost as heat in the cable. If a PD does not display a signature, it is class 0 and must be allocated the maximum 12.95 watts.

http://www.veracityglobal.com/support/articles-and-white-papers/poe-explained-part-2.aspx

From the information I found, and recognizing my minimal knowledge/understanding, I suspect that the ZyXEL is a class 3. However, maybe someone can help me.

 

I bought the ZyXEL ES1100P 16 port switch. Here is a link to the website: http://www.zyxel.com/uk/en/products_services/es1100_series.shtml?t=p

 

Some of the information at that site is as follows:

The ZyXEL ES1100-8P and ES1100-16P support IEEE 802.3af PoE to ease the installation of network devices in challenging spaces such as ceilings or walls. The power supply of up to 15.4 watts per port allows the ES1100 Series PoE switches to power PoE-enabled WLAN APs, VoIP phones and IP surveillance cameras through CAT-5 cables of less than 100 meters (300 feet) in length. With the ES1100 Series PoE switches, there is no need for extra power adapters in installing PoE devices in difficult locations. This feature helps enterprises reduce installation time and cost when there are many such devices on the network.

The ZyXEL site also states that the Total PoE Power Budget is 130 Watts over 8 channels (which actually works out to 16.25 Watts per channel).

 

The reason I bought the ZyXEL was to ensure that I had sufficient power for each port. I read that some other PoE switches might have enough power to run 4 of 8 ports at full power, but not all 8 at full power.

 

In any event, it appears that a Class 3 PoE needs to provide 15.4 Watts per port, which the ZyXEL does. I'd like the heater on the IP cam to be able to work, if it needs to.

 

Thought? Comments?

[voip-ninja 0]

You should be okay then. Basically during the 802.3af handshake between the PoE client device and the PoE host (in this case your Xyxel switch) the maximum power capabilities are determined. As long as the device powers on when it has the Class-3 switch option selected you should be okay.

 

The reason Axis put the switch in is pretty clever... they make it so that the camera can be deployed on newer Class-3 capable PoE mid-spans but also have a fall-back position to work with lower power mid-span units, but prevent the heater from coming on later on after having been connected to a mid-span that cannot provide a full 15.4 watts, but has enough power to initially get the unit going....which could cause the unit to fail due to overloading the power available.

 

More PoE info here;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

 

And this one is good too

 

http://www.veracityglobal.com/support/articles-and-white-papers/poe-explained-part-2.aspx

[buellwinkle 0]

I ran the P33 with the very same ZyXel switch for a few weeks and no issues.

[voip-ninja 0]

I ran the P33 with the very same ZyXel switch for a few weeks and no issues.

 

Was the switch under the camera set to class 2 or class 3? When I had the switch set to class-3 and plugged it into one of my older mid-span units, the camera would not power up... which is probably a good thing if that mid-span could not provide the maximum power necessary.

[Kawboy12R 0]

I'm betting buellwinkle never had the heater kick in either... I was out for a drive the other day and the car's outside temp gauge dropped to -24C.

[ak357 0]

I'm betting buellwinkle never had the heater kick in either... I was out for a drive the other day and the car's outside temp gauge dropped to -24C.

Cold

Where are u in Canada ?

[buellwinkle 0]

Hey, we had a cold snap back then, overnight lows dropped to about 40F, I know, makes we want to move to Costa Rica.

[Kawboy12R 0]

I was driving through central NB at the time. Bit chillier than home on the coast but not by much. No troubles with my unheated CNB domes except for icicles dangling from one of them. My Axis cams are still comfy in their boxes.

[voip-ninja 0]

I'm betting buellwinkle never had the heater kick in either... I was out for a drive the other day and the car's outside temp gauge dropped to -24C.

 

That's a good point. I don't know at what temp the heater comes on, for some units it comes on at 0C. In my case, the temps have been a little colder than normal here, down to about -15C and I haven't had trouble or condensation issues with either the Axis or Samsung cameras, and the heaters on the Samsung only work when using 24V power which I am not doing.

 

It's worth noting though that for the Samsungs, they are installed directly on insulated walls or soffits and that probably keeps them better regulated temperature wise than the Axis ones which hang out on the corners of the home, get exposed to moisture, wind, etc.

[Hitch 0]

Glad to hear I'm good with the ZyXel. I am pretty sure it was a post from buell that led me to it.

 

Voip - For me, that was another plus for the Axis cameras - not having to run extra wires for the heater. Course, I really don't know if they will even turn on. I'm outside of Philly. Although it does get down below freezing, it doesn't tend to stay there much. Do the heaters turn on for humidity?

 

Excited to get this one installed and see how it does.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Guest

[voip-ninja 0]

Glad to hear I'm good with the ZyXel. I am pretty sure it was a post from buell that led me to it.

 

Voip - For me, that was another plus for the Axis cameras - not having to run extra wires for the heater. Course, I really don't know if they will even turn of. I'm outside of Philly. Although it does get down below freezing, it doesn't tend to stay there much. Do the heaters turn on for humidity?

 

Others have reported that the only reason the heaters ever need to function is to prevent condensation. Not 100% sure I buy that explanation as many electronics, even though they are generating heat will stop functioning properly at sub freezing temps.

 

In any event, it's unlikely the heaters would kick on unless the temps get below freezing, in which case both the heater and the fan should be going to circulate the warm air.

[Hitch 0]

Makes sense. We certainly have plenty of humidity around here during the summer. I prefer winter!

[Hitch 0]

Wish I knew when my camera will arrive - there's no tracking information available and the projected delivery date is from tomorrow through over 2 weeks from now. I feel like a child waiting for Christmas, except that I don't know when Christmas will be.

 

[voip-ninja 0]

I likely went with a different reseller than you, my first camera took about 7-9 days to show up, the 2nd one showed up in 2 days... both from the same seller.

[Hitch 0]

Well, I received a tracking number today. That's the good news. The bad news is that it appears that it wasn't actually shipped on January 2, as Amazon indicates. According to the tracking information, it was just received yesterday afternoon.

 

Expected delivery date is January 15. I think I now understand why the projected dates of delivery were so broad. It will be here before the outside projected date and I saved a fair chunk of change through this seller.

[buellwinkle 0]

It may be a pawn shop with a legal obligation to retain merchandise in case it's hot. I bought an ACTi dome that way on eBay and it took like 2 weeks before they even shipped it. Luckily it was still under warranty because it did not work but how would a pawn shop know (I found it was a pawn shop by googling around). ACTi fixed it while I waited, so no extra delays but I can imagine having to ship it somewhere for repairs and wait for them ship it back, certainly stretches your patience.

 

It's like Guitar Center, when they sell you a used guitar, sometimes they have to hold onto it for a few weeks to see if it's claimed as stolen. Nothing more annoying than playing an instrument, having it in your hands, paying for it and having to wait 2 weeks to see it again.

[Hitch 0]

Interesting. Maybe there was another week on the hold time, as of the date of my order.

 

I looked back at the email that I received on January 2. It did say that the item was shipped, it wasn't just the order confirmation from Amazon. As of Jan. 2, the estimated delivery date was from January 9 through January 25th. Pretty long time period.

 

I wonder if Amazon tracks how long it takes a seller to ship, from date of order.

[Hitch 0]

Does anyone have a link to the manual for Axis Camera Companion? I have spent WAY more time that I would like to admit trying to find it. Complete failure on my part, if it exists.

 

Thanks!

[voip-ninja 0]

Looks like a user tutorial is as close as they get;

 

http://www.axis.com/products/cam_companion_software/video/user_tutorial.htm

[Hitch 0]

Voip - Thanks for taking the time to see if you could find one. Strange that they don't have an actual manual.

 

EDIT: Sure enough, I just "chatted" with Axis and there is no manual.

[voip-ninja 0]

Lack of documentation notwithstanding, how are you liking the P33?

[Hitch 0]

Still waiting for it to arrive. I appears to have been sent via stage coach. At last report, the decision was made to circle the wagons at about the Mississippi.

 

[voip-ninja 0]

Still waiting for it to arrive. I appears to have been sent via stage coach. At last report, the decision was made to circle the wagons at about the Mississippi.

 

 

I can sympathize. I ordered a box set of Blu-rays from Amazon UK back in December (before Christmas) and they are expected to be delivered January 24th. Apparently delivery by steam trawler is still an option.