Narrowing down decision on ACTi box vs dome cameras

[carlitosway 0]

Hello All,

 

Newbie to the site, but have been doing research on cameras for over a month, and frankly I'm a bit overwhelmed with what is out there, but I believe that I've got it narrowed down to a couple of cameras.

 

Long story short, I need to get an outdoor camera with superb night visibility as my vehicles keep getting vandalized. I'm pretty certain of who the person is vandalizing my vehicles but according to police I need to provide evidence of the perpetrator in the act in order for them pursue further.

 

With that in mind I've done some research. I've scoured the web as well as several forums, and also received several quotes on systems (3S Vision N6071, Vivotek IP7361, Messoa- NCR875PRO, Q-See QC808 NVR combo (low end but good value), and even one 3MP off -brand camera from China from a manufacturer called "FINE", for which I can't find any info. about) that I thought would do the job, but there is nothing much out there that convinces me.

 

There is an active member of this forum (Whom I hope reads this post and I believe goes by the screen name Buellwinkle) that has provided very good un-biased advice as well as examples which helped me get a good idea of actual performance of several camera systems.

 

I would love to have a PTZ , but these are too large and very visible and the prices are a bit over my budget. A turret style camera would also be more discreet and almost invisible in my particular setup than a dome-type camera, but the turret style seems to be mostly prevalent in older analog systems.

 

After much reviewing, I'm narrowing my search to two ACTi outdoor cameras with great night vision performance: KCM-5611 (box) and TCM-7811 (dome) both of these two cameras keep on popping up with good reviews from folks who have been using them.

 

 

I have the following requirements and I'm hoping that someone is able to provide a bit more info.:

 

I live in a town home and I need to see clearly at night with very minimal lighting - about 100' from where the camera is located (somewhere about 15'-20' up on my wall entrance) and diagonally down to my two mid-sized vehicles. My goal is primarily to catch the perpetrator in the act. Not to have the camera act as a deterrent that would let the perpetrator know that they are being watched.

 

The TCM-7811 seems to cover the issue of stealthiness, but I'm concerned about its range at night.

The KCM-5611 seems to offer the excellent night vision performance (including the ability to zoom on a trigger event such as intrusion of a selected zone) which is really what I'm looking for. While the size of this camera is quite compact (at 8"x5"x5" - L x W x H), my concern is that the size of the KCM-5611 plus 10" for the bracket length would make the camera likely visible by passers by. I would love to see ACTi come out with a compact bullet version of the KCM-5611.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Another area where I'm in dire need for help with is with the NVR. I'm interested in a self-contained unit, not a PC, but I'm open to suggestions. I'm interested in the NVR being able to handle alarm events from the cameras (such as emailing, or activating other devices such as lights, etc) and maybe some analytics. I'm also interested in viewing the cameras remotely via an iPhone/Android device. My initial choices were NUUO and QNAP, but I also received a quote for a brand called Solstice for which I have not been able to find much on. I know that ACTi provides some free software, but I don't know if I would be able to use the ACTi software with the NUUO or QNAP boxes (I'm not 100% sure if these boxes full blown NVRs or if they are glorified PCs).

 

I would love to hear any suggestions on NVR solutions as well for this setup.

 

Lastly, I know that the current setup I explained would only cover one camera. The part I'm most concerned about is the front area of the house where I park my vehicles. For the back area I will be adding either another TCM-7811 or a lower featured dome or bullet type camera as the back area is enclosed and is a 20'x20' which can be easily be covered by any camera with somewhat decent night vision. I would later add other cameras as needed, but a maximum would be eight cameras for the entire system. Ideally, I would like to purchase a system and know that all parts will work together and has some room for expandability as well as some futureproof.

 

Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated as this will be by first setup.

 

Many thanks in advance for taking your time to review my post!

[buellwinkle 0]

I would not get the TCM-7811 because what I believe is it's replacement, the E84 will be out in early March and uses the same 2MP sensor from the KCM-5611.

 

Now with a dome and box with the same sensor, why buy the box camera is likely your next question. The E84, while having the same sensor will not have the same WDR functionality. It will have basic WDR, but not the same. Also the KCM-5611 has an 18X zoom lens with a good autofocus system, as far as I know until I get one, the E84 will have a typical manual varifocal manual focus lens. The E84 is not without its advantages, first it's a vandal dome, can't be re-aimed by a thief with a broom stick and domes tend to be less noticeable and you can't really tell where it's pointed at making it harder as the thief has to guess where it's pointed and assumes everywhere. And it will be less expensive, my guess by about $100, but until it's available, can't say for sure. My guess about what the TCM-7811 is selling for now.

 

Also, for what it's worth, there will also be a bullet with the same sensor as the KCM-5611, the E44, again not the advanced WDR and varifocal lens vs. 18x zoom. Also less expensive, maybe in the same price range as the current TCM-1231, or about $550-600 range.

 

For the last but not least camera to have the same sensor as the KCM-5611, is their new PTZ camera, the indoor version is available now, the outdoor version in spring. Pricing is good, better than say Axis but still figure 2-3x the price of the KCM-5611 which makes you think, is having 2-3 KCM-5611s a better value proposition than a single PTZ.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Guest

[buellwinkle 0]

oops

[kifaru 0]

I would love to see ACTi come out with a compact bullet version of the KCM-5611.

 

My sentiment exactly, I would have prefered it in a dome version. The TCM -7811 is an exellent choise. You can add the Axis P3364-LVE to your list, once it is released.

 

My ideal NVR would be one that can handle at least 8 IP cameras at 1080p, but I have yet to come across one yet.

[Kawboy12R 0]

The 7811 won't even come close at 100 feet for facial ID. I'm not aware of a dome outside of a PTZ that has enough zoom to get a good facial ID at night at 100+ feet. To get a feel for the resolution and zoom needed, play with the Axis product selection tool. You can even filter by products with "Lightfinder", day/night, outdoor, etc. 60 or 75 ppf might make you happy to recognize someone if you don't know them. Select 75 ppf under "specify resolution" and drag the distance tool outwards towards 100 feet. Then click on the few cameras that remain and check out their specs. 12mm varifocal megapixel domes drop out waaay before 100 feet.

 

http://www.axis.com/products/video/selector/index.php

[buellwinkle 0]

The KCM-5611 will ID someone at 100' as it has an 18x zoom. You may be able to trigger the zoom from an event, not sure, but if you could, when someone enters say the center motion detect zone, you would issue an URL command to zoom in automagically to the correct amount of zoom to ID the person. Not bad considering the KCM-5611 is the fraction of the cost of 1080P PTZ cameras.

[bigglebowski 0]

The KCM-5611 has amazing low light capability but I believe the range of the built in IR illumination has a range of 20m. So 100' would probably be pushing but the lens will certainly push that far. Also be aware the LEDS put off a pretty decent glow if you are really worried about being stealthy.

[buellwinkle 0]

Yes, during the day you are good, but at night, unless there's street lights nearby, you may need an illuminator mounted closer to the action or a really powerfull one mounted near the camera.

[carlitosway 0]

Many thanks to all for reading my post and providing valuable insight!,

 

Reading through the last few posts I'm getting the impression that even the IR illuminators of the ACTi KCM-5611 may not be enough. Adding more illuminators will likely complicate this project, not to mention adding to the cost of it.

 

I guess the only way to truly find out whether I need to add more hardware is to actually install the camera to get a feel of how it performs for my particular setup. I would need to find a reputable reseller that has a good return policy in the case this setup does not work out (I would hate to be stuck with an $800 camera that does not work).

 

Does everyone agree that the KCM-5611 is still the best solution for this type of project or do you suggest going another route? I have a friend owns a larger townhome than mine that has an analog-type CCTV system (I believe it's a Q-See) with turret-style fixed dome cameras and he's getting around 60' B/W coverage at night with good image quality. I would assume that the KCM-5611 would provide great performance in low light being that it's made for such application and considering that it is a hefty price for a single camera when compared to an off-the-shelf all in package such as a Q-See.

 

Also, any recommendations of an NVR for this setup? I'm looking at a maximum of 8 cameras.

 

Thanks again!

[buellwinkle 0]

The KCM-5611 illuminators are rated for 20m, so over 60', but you want to go 100'. My rule of thumb is to use half the rated range because many times, the range is calculated on a very slow exposure which is not realistic. They sell 80m IR illuminators on Amazon and eBay that I use that have 8 powerfull LEDs that will go 100' (they are rated for 263', so half would be 131') and costs under $50. You don't have to mount it together with the camera, can be mounted off to the side or closer the action. For example, I have my in a large flower pot.

 

A good NVR would be the ACTi NVR, forget the model # but should cost about $500-600 and supports 16 cameras I believe.