Cat 5 (Twisted Pair) vs RG cabling

[chewingyu 0]

Need some advice. I know CCTV in the 'old days' used lots of RG cables to connect cameras but it would tend to be bulky if it involves a lot of cameras in the set up. I am told that the use of Cat 5 Twisted pair cables would make things much neater and easier. I am not sure.

 

Anyone who can shed some light on this cabling thingy?

[VST_Man 1]

nicer? easier? Not really. CAT5 cabling involves more equipment in the "chain" of the video signal and is therefore more probe to failures. And, for CAT5 to work well with a video signal you ned to buy good CAT5 and good Baluns. ie....active Balun's are better than passive becasue they filter out unwanted signals better and they have no signal loss.....but are more expensive. CAT5 is also more prone to signal interference.

 

RG cable works, looks great, and is easy to maintain. Bulky? I don't see it that way since everywhere I run cables there is always room for more, and when you terminate the video at the camera you don't have a Balun to hide/worry about. On the down side RG is limited to a 200ft distance. Some have pushed it further but I won't.

 

And I do use Balun's where the install calls for it. ie.....a 500ft. camera run.

 

neater and easier iare not one of my top 3........I go for pic quality, equipment durability, and client ease of use on my top 3. Neatness and easier follow these...........

 

hope this helps

[chewingyu 0]

Never heard of "baluns". Are they similar to NVT transmitters and receivers?

[VST_Man 1]

yes. NVT is the better product and more expensive. Balun's are little adapters that convert the BNC/video/audio/power to the CAT5 cable. You need to of them, one at each end. There are active (powered/amplified) and passive (no prower/amplification) Active (NVT) are better and more reliable.

 

And there are tons of different models/manufactures of Balun's. Cheap ones ($20.00) and expensive ($100 on up) The Baluns (active and passive)come with several options; convert video only, video & audio only, video, audio & power, and then some have claims to reducing "noise" and ground loops issues. active is pretty much safe to say it will reduce or iliminate noise and ground loop, and allow you to adjust the video gain.

 

tick with NVT as it is proven and worth it.BUT, I always try to go with RG first as it eliminates the need/problems associated with CAT5. Not that one is better than the other, I just think if I can save money on an install by using RG then I do....and it is easier to maintain over time.

 

RG = short runs....200ft or less

CAT5 = long runs.........beyond 200ft & special applications

[sal 0]

Cat 5 can be convenient, especially if it is already run which it might me in many facilities. You do still need power though and running AC over a single twister pair is not a good idea. So plan wisely.

 

http://www.digitalwatchguard.com/reference/Manufacturers/VideoBalunsUnlimited/BL3265.pdf

 

This simple Balun requires no tool and has Built in surge protection.

 

Here are some Twisted Pair Design tools from Muxlab, who we started stocking because we think they have a solid product line and fair pricing.

 

http://www.muxlab.com/support/application_notes.html

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Let me add that good quality RG59U with 95% copper braid and copper cored (Belden 8241 is one example) is good up to 1000'. The NVT guys want you to believe that the days of coax are over but for most installations you should stick to coax. Baluns are very handy if there is existing CAT5, in some cases even CAT3 cabling and you don't want to run new wire. Also for runs over 1000' they come into play, but don't count out the trusty coax just yet.

[sal 0]

I agree.

[rory 0]

UTP or Cat5 is good for multi building applications also.

[jisaac 0]

i would have to disagree that cat 5 gets more interference. Overall cat 5 actually cancels out the interference it draws in. Unlike coax. Coax actually works as a antenna as it is powered. Do a little research on that and you will find out that that is correct.

[VST_Man 1]

quoting a CAT5 system compared to a RG system can make or break a deal. CAT5 and baluns are more expensive to purchase/install/support. I can run a 100ft siamese RG for nest to nothing and make more on the labor. CAT5? I just dipped into thelabor if I want to be competitive.

 

But, thanks for the info................I understand it is better but I just can't afford to quote/install CAT5 on a regular basis.

 

example; client wanted CAT5. I quoted him a decent CAT5 system. He told me I was crazy on the price of the NVT baluns. Client purchased his own. Now that system has interferance problems, poor video quality, and outages on thos camera's.

 

I guess I should have stated that if you buy the best balun and CAT5 associated equipment you'll be fine. I use NVT and get great pics, but the cost associated to NVT is higher that average customer wants to spend, and competitors are going to kill me with RG.

[rory 0]

Coax is stronger though, i mean harder to cut

Remember if they are being cheap, they wont be running any conduit

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Jisa is correct that CAT5 would be less prone to picking up hum or other AC interference but CAT5 baluns unless specifically designed will not get rid of ground loop problems. NVT is by far the best of breed in baluns although there are a couple of other brand names that would probably do as well.

 

The very low end $20 baluns are actually only really good up to about 500' when using a DVR although they all advertise themselves as 1000' distance and that would be true if you were using the old analog type products such as a quad, switcher, or straight into a monitor. Problems arise when using DVRs since they are much more sensitive to input voltage and will display poor quality pictures even though you would see a good quality picture plugged inot a monitor. This causes problems with end users since they think a DVR actually enhances the video so they end up blaming the DVR.

 

I would say that for the majority of new installs you would do well to stay with copper braid, copper core coax. It has served the industry well for many years and sometimes low tech actually works as well or better.

[jisaac 0]

We generally do use coax. The really only time we use baluns is if the install is a pain in the ass and very hard to get to. I use cat 5 mostly if the runs are not easily accessable and would cut down on labor. You have to use it in the right situation.

[chewingyu 0]

So, most of you guys are inclined towards coax. But coax is limited to under 200ft (or 100m). My company buildings are spread out well over a radius of about 200m.

[rory 0]

RG59 can go approx 1500', RG6 approx 1800'.

 

But basically you loose quality over 200', in fact with any cable, without an ampifier, which active is when talking about cat5/UTP. There are also Amplifiers for Coax, and NVT sells a couple of these, 8 and 16 channel versions.

 

Rory

[chewingyu 0]

So.....you are suggesting.......????

[rory 0]

be prepared to loose some quality over longer distances, without an amplifier.

[chewingyu 0]

So.... you are suggesting....????

[rory 0]

Multi building applications as you suggested, I would use Active Transceiver hubs with Passive Transmitters (or active Transmitters if further than 3000' distances or the budget is willing), such as the NVT gear for example.

 

Use punch blocks or make your own using terminal strips. Run cat5 if possible, though cat3 multi pair bundles would be useful for future add-ons. Power locally for each building.

 

If you have alot of money, look into Fiber.

[chewingyu 0]

What are punchblocks? terminal strips?

[rory 0]

Punch blocks are used for telco wiring. Example:

http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia_term/0,2542,t=punch+block&i=49961,00.asp

http://www.lashen.com/vendors/Leviton/Datacom/66_Clip_Blocks.asp#40066-m25

http://www.lashen.com/vendors/Leviton/Datacom/Default.asp

 

Terminal Strips: (and Barrier Strips)

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=terminal%20strip&kw=terminal+strip

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Exactly how far are your runs? Also how large are the conduits available?

Both factors could be a tipping point towards CAT5 or even fiber optics.

[chewingyu 0]

About 150m to 200m.

All are housed within PVC trunking.

[AVCONSULTING 0]

I'd use coax unless there is a space problem in the conduit. Cheaper, more reliable, easy to use. Just remember to get high quality 95% copper braid and copper core. No aluminum period no matter how many braids.

[rory 0]

braids are cheap down here . ...