survtech 0 Posted February 22, 2013 I have to agree with tomcctv. 200 slots, 8 table games, a cash cage, likely additional cameras for count room(s), vault, back-of-house, parking lot(s) and other areas adds up to probably well over 100 cameras. DVRs just aren't made for that camera density; nor are many low-end VMS/NVR systems. Also, depending on how "fancy" the casino wants to get, they might want redundancy and failover built in. They certainly shouldn't use a typical DVR system with no RAID storage - it's too likely they would encounter data loss. Then another question would be if the Surveillance Department would be manned? They would likely want a number of PTZs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vector18 1 Posted February 23, 2013 why I would purchase more expensive cameras? I'd love to know why making more money is bad and do not tell me so I can write it off. Just curious what you mean here do you not pass the savings to the customer or do you charge what "equivalent" brand names would cost but supply Dahuas. I charge what I feel is a fair price for what the customer wants or needs. I don't figure my prices saying to myself an ACTI camera costs about 500.00 and an equivalent dahua camera costs about 300.00 so my price will be 200.00 less? Who would price give estimates thinking in that way?? But nice try trying to make me look bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vector18 1 Posted February 23, 2013 learn your products you still need PSS with the super NVR I do know my products and I never said you wouldn't need PSS and I personally do not have a problem with PSS as I have already mentioned. for 7k yes and make coffee. any NVR or DVR will play back the key to a casino system is it does it quick and multiple cameras at same time. which PSS cant do well can but takes for ever. A casino system is not the same as doing a corner shop you also have to think of the systems security as well Sorry, it will not make you coffee. And how much does a higher end NVR that you use cost that can record 128 channels? Maybe you don't know how to use PSS, but it plays back multiple cameras just fine for me and not one of my customers have ever had an issue. It is just your opinion if it takes for ever or not. Please tell me in clear words what you mean by I have to think of the systems security as well. Give me an example of security difference between the system you install and a Dahua system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted February 23, 2013 some of the responses on this forum make want to shake my head and just walk away. We need to split the forum into three sections. Professionals Trunk slammers do it your self let's just stack some 16 channel DVRs together and call it a day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
securitynow.us 0 Posted February 23, 2013 Vector I'm curious, with the multiple camera play backs using the PSS with no problems at all, how many is that? And how many frames per camera? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 23, 2013 KdQ7kYzb6Kc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigglebowski 0 Posted February 23, 2013 why I would purchase more expensive cameras? I'd love to know why making more money is bad and do not tell me so I can write it off. Just curious what you mean here do you not pass the savings to the customer or do you charge what "equivalent" brand names would cost but supply Dahuas. I charge what I feel is a fair price for what the customer wants or needs. I don't figure my prices saying to myself an ACTI camera costs about 500.00 and an equivalent dahua camera costs about 300.00 so my price will be 200.00 less? Who would price give estimates thinking in that way?? But nice try trying to make me look bad. No intention of trying to make you look bad. I didn't understand why selling one less expensive brand over another that is more expensive somehow net more income. I would think it would be proportional percentage between brands sold. No offense intended. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 23, 2013 Sorry, it will not make you coffee. And how much does a higher end NVR that you use cost that can record 128 channels? Maybe you don't know how to use PSS, but it plays back multiple cameras just fine for me and not one of my customers have ever had an issue. It is just your opinion if it takes for ever or not. Please tell me in clear words what you mean by I have to think of the systems security as well. Give me an example of security difference between the system you install and a Dahua system. Vector again learn your products ............and before you start look at your old posts .......your new to dahua so please don't say I don't .......... Been a dealer for dahua for over 8 years and also 5 years before they changed there name to dahua , Lets take your SUPER NVR which you keep hitting with and why it's such a waste of money. IT ONLY records 128 @ D1 so now the maths You have to buy dahua 1.3mp then set them at d1 WHY your selling your customer 1.3mp yet can't record at that .....WHY would any installer do that. COST OF YOUR SUPER NVR, $7.000. .... 128 cameras @ $150 each = $19.200. Then cable switches then storage another $10.000 then a dedicated pc with large screens (for 128 cameras) another $4.000. Then you have your install costs labour and service contract. And back up cameras ...........don't know what your rates are but call it $20.000, Over $60.000 for a D1 setup ????? That runs on the standard domestic PSS. And 128 cameras will only record at 6 fps. SUPER NVR ....... I just don't understand why...........lot of stuff out there 1000 time better than that ........... Use 3 or 5mp cameras and by just doing that brings cost of cameras down, The point is dahua do nothing that will fit a casino environment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vector18 1 Posted February 23, 2013 Dahua Super NVR NVR6000, 128CH D1/ 64CH 720P/ 32CH 1080P real time recording, Compatible with D1, 720P, 1080P, 3M, 5M etc, 6 HDMIs output, main could output with all 128 channel video, others each with 4 different video channels, 16 HDDs each up to 3TB, could do Raid 0, 1, 5, 4 USB, 4 Raj45, 1 eSATA, with LCD NVR local, intel i series CPU I had mentioned in my previous post, for a casino, you can go with the 128channel nvr OR multiple NVR's. You keep mentioning 7000 for this NVR. Obviously you know it does not cost 7000. Others have noted you can pick up this NVR for far less and even half of that. Also, you are wrong, you do not need a dedicated monster server, this nvr is capable of having 16 HDD's and each up to 3tb. And you never seem to mention that it is also capable of inputing 64 720p cameras, or 32 1080p cameras. You also do not mention that it has 5 hdmi outputs that can display 4 cameras each and 1 hdmi that displays all 128 channels. I'm not saying this is the ONLY Dahua choice for the casino. Dahua has a 4 channel NVR that can record 30fps @1080p and it's under 250.00 bucks! If you buy 10 of those, you can record 40 1080p cameras at 30fps for under 2500.00. Now, you mention the price for switches and storage. The equipment that you would install does not require switches or storage? You mention labor, back up cameras, etc, you do not charge labor and extra parts? My point is, there are different choices with Dahua. If you were a Dahua expert, you would know this. Since you love to keep mentioning the cost of Dahua and what a waste it would be to install in a casino, PLEASE make a post of YOUR equipment and labor and lets see how much it would cost from you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kawboy12R 0 Posted February 23, 2013 I think I'd skip everything mentioned so far until I got a quote on a smaller version of the 360 degree system installed at the Aria in shockwave's video. At the very least I think I'd have a few 360 degree ceiling cams installed along with PTZs and fixed cameras if a big casino system totally blew the budget. One of the interesting parts was that they don't bother to record PTZ footage. Waste of money with the rest of the system working as well as it does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 23, 2013 I think I'd skip everything mentioned so far until I got a quote on a smaller version of the 360 degree system installed at the Aria in shockwave's video. At the very least I think I'd have a few 360 degree ceiling cams installed along with PTZs and fixed cameras if a big casino system totally blew the budget. One of the interesting parts was that they don't bother to record PTZ footage. Waste of money with the rest of the system working as well as it does.Not hardly. Casinos usually have manned surveillance rooms. Users often zoom in tightly on an incident to capture subtle actions that overview cameras would miss. I'm not saying that 180 and 360 degree cameras don't offer some possible benefits, just that they often sacrifice pixels on target for their ultra-wide-angle views. It would require a gigapixel 360-degree camera just to replace a well-placed PTZ where you have trained operators. If Aria doesn't record their PTZs, shame on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vector18 1 Posted February 23, 2013 I'll be honest. I did not like the 360 camera image. It shows a big area in one image bug it lacks detail. If your going to keep it zoomed out, how can you catch an incident and than zoom into it. In that video where they followed that lady around, what did she do and how did they catch her for them to follow her? They were very vague in that video and the reason is because they want you to buy their product. The video was a sales pitch. IMO fixed hd cameras at every table and machine and ptz's here and there either on guard or manual, is better than one camera that can see the entire floor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 23, 2013 I'm not saying this is the ONLY Dahua choice for the casino. Dahua has a 4 channel NVR that can record 30fps @1080p and it's under 250.00 bucks! If you buy 10 of those, you can record 40 1080p cameras at 30fps for under 2500.00. For how much ....... are you for real ???? $25.000 just for recording hdmi that displays all 128 channels only if @ D1 ............... but do you have control NO view only. My point is, there are different choices with Dahua. If you were a Dahua expert, you would know this if you think domestic PSS software is good for a casino you think that, will PSS allow you to display same camera side by side on screen with second camera with 10 second delay ??? will PSS allow replay without having to come out of viewing screen ???? is the PSS fast enough for security staff to operate ???? NO. so same point dahua IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR a casino and thats a fact nothing to do with dahua as a whole just they make nothing good enough for a casino needs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 23, 2013 I'll be honest. I did not like the 360 camera image. It shows a big area in one image bug it lacks detail. If your going to keep it zoomed out, how can you catch an incident and than zoom into it. my point .......understand poducts ......360 is the overview ......... then you have its segments all views from the one 360 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vector18 1 Posted February 23, 2013 Who said 25,000????? Are you for real?? I said 2500.00 for 10 dahua NVR's that can record 4 1080p IP cameras at 30fps. Please put on your glasses when you read my post. And yes, you can 'control' them??? Wtf? And I LOVE how you keep avoiding or never answer me when I ask how much would YOUR equipment cost the casino for what YOU would give them! Your awesome! And so smart as well! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vector18 1 Posted February 23, 2013 I'll be honest. I did not like the 360 camera image. It shows a big area in one image bug it lacks detail. If your going to keep it zoomed out, how can you catch an incident and than zoom into it. Wow, awesome my point .......understand poducts ......360 is the overview ......... then you have its segments all views from the one 360 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vector18 1 Posted February 23, 2013 Your my idol Tom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 23, 2013 its not about cost ....the post is about designing a casino system. best thing for you to do is not reply to posts that you have no knowledge about. and thats not me being hasty to you ...... is just dahua will not do the job and its taking the post of the subject. I could design a system for you but not for free. I'm in charge of a 1,000+ camera system at a major casino. PM me if you're interested. this is the best offer. as nothing yet has been talked about as in the security of the system its self. and also security that cant be talked about on a open forum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 23, 2013 Your my idol Tom yes i think i am .....................but at least i know the industry and just in this post alone .....we all know you know nothing at all .......... DONT get upset because you cant sell your dauha in classified to the casino for $7.000 ........ still laugh now when i see it $7.000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 23, 2013 I think if the OP is interested in Dahua he should start out researching what other casinos currenly have Dahua (if any) and get some feed back from that customer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kawboy12R 0 Posted February 23, 2013 One of the interesting parts was that they don't bother to record PTZ footage. Waste of money with the rest of the system working as well as it does.Not hardly. Casinos usually have manned surveillance rooms. Users often zoom in tightly on an incident to capture subtle actions that overview cameras would miss. I'm not saying that 180 and 360 degree cameras don't offer some possible benefits, just that they often sacrifice pixels on target for their ultra-wide-angle views. It would require a gigapixel 360-degree camera just to replace a well-placed PTZ where you have trained operators. If Aria doesn't record their PTZs, shame on them. That's why it was interesting when the guy in the video said that recording the PTZs was a waste of money. Personally, my first thought is why NOT record them? Storage is relatively cheap. Maybe he meant they don't record ALL of the PTZ footage but hit a panic record button that records a pre-event buffer when the PTZ operators see something shady? They can't be showing all of their secrets and every feature, etc in what's basically a promo video. It does go against what I think a casino would want for evidence though, but then I'm not a casino guy. Maybe just PTZ footage older than, say, 4 hours isn't considered valuable and that's their pre-event buffer? Don't you find the gaps in the big picture as presented in the video interesting as well? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vector18 1 Posted February 23, 2013 its not about cost ....the post is about designing a casino system. If it's not about cost, than why did more than one post you add up a total amount of my cost to the casino manager and yet everytime you were wrong and making up prices as you went along? best thing for you to do is not reply to posts that you have no knowledge about. and thats not me being hasty to you ...... is just dahua will not do the job and its taking the post of the subject. I beg to differ and I feel so far I have contributed more than anyone here. You have not named one product that you would use if you were the casino installer, you have not suggested one idea to the OP. Is Dahua up to par for a casino, maybe not for some casino's but there is a difference between the Bellagio in Vegas and a casino in Trinidad or Yonkers,NY. I just wish rather than bash someone else's suggestion to the OP, bring up some of your OWN. (Since you are so knowledgeable) And if you are unable to help out the OP, than maybe it would be best if you didn't post at all. And thats not being hasty to you................. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 23, 2013 i think i did help the OP by not wasting money on a system that can not do a casino. its a casino it does not matter were it is. its the cheats that play and work around the casinos........ a casino can loose $1000s a day Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vector18 1 Posted February 23, 2013 Why don't you show us how smart you are and actually posting some of your own ideas for this casino rather than bashing someone else. Let the OP decide if you 'saved' him from a bad purchase or not. We have no idea how big or sophisticated this casino is. The OP has not posted for days and I'm getting sick to my stomach going back and forth with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 23, 2013 Why don't you show us how smart you are and actually posting some of your own ideas for this casino rather than bashing someone else its a public forum ...... you dont talk about how your protect a casino on a open forum. listen vector i HAVE NOT BASHED YOU........... i have only said the same as others dahua IS NOT FOR A CASINO its a fact. options are there in the post avigilon or he can look for casino systems or contacy survtech. but please give it a rest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
