Baje 0 Posted February 20, 2013 Hello, I have a client that currently has all of their SD bnc cameras running on video servers and encoders to make them IP. My question is if there are HD servers/encoders available so that i can make the SD cameras now HD by just changing the cameras to hd-sdi . Any help or links to products would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 20, 2013 Sure they run about $2K for a 4 channel encoder and who knows what VMS platforms they will work with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 22, 2013 There's no point in converting HD-SDI to IP. Either install a complete HD-SDI system or a complete IP system. Combining the two is a waste, since once you encode and compress the HD-SDI signal, it will be basically the same as you would get from an IP system at a substantial extra cost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 22, 2013 I have to disagree with you. I think a low cost $350ish 4 channel HD-SDI encoder could be very useful. I have been very impressed with HD-SDI camera image quailty vs price. Most of our customers are "take overs" looking to upgrade to HD/MP and this would be a very cost effective option to move up in resolution. I understand you will not have all the benefits of a end to end HD-SDI solution but the image quality should be the same or better then I am getting from IP without having to re-cable or convert. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 22, 2013 OK. Who, exactly, sells a "low cost $350ish 4 channel HD-SDI encoder"? And, except for live monitoring, the video quality of recorded HD-SDI converted to IP is likely to be no better, and possibly worse, than a straight IP system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted February 22, 2013 OK. Who, exactly, sells a "low cost $350ish 4 channel HD-SDI encoder"? And, except for live monitoring, the video quality of recorded HD-SDI converted to IP is likely to be no better, and possibly worse, than a straight IP system. Nobody sell it He is talking about would be nice to have Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
securitynow.us 0 Posted February 22, 2013 There are 4 channel HD-SDI DVRs available for a little more then 350 dollars. I've installed a couple recently, and the picture quality with Megapixel cameras is great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 22, 2013 OK. Who, exactly, sells a "low cost $350ish 4 channel HD-SDI encoder"? And, except for live monitoring, the video quality of recorded HD-SDI converted to IP is likely to be no better, and possibly worse, than a straight IP system. No one sells one but I can see a need for one. A $150 HD-SDI, $350ish encoder and with a VMS licenses would be a very cost effective HD upgrade option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 22, 2013 OK. Who, exactly, sells a "low cost $350ish 4 channel HD-SDI encoder"? And, except for live monitoring, the video quality of recorded HD-SDI converted to IP is likely to be no better, and possibly worse, than a straight IP system. No one sells one but I can see a need for one. A $150 HD-SDI, $350ish encoder and with a VMS licenses would be a very cost effective HD upgrade option. So you're recommending vaporware? Now I understand... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 22, 2013 OK. Who, exactly, sells a "low cost $350ish 4 channel HD-SDI encoder"? And, except for live monitoring, the video quality of recorded HD-SDI converted to IP is likely to be no better, and possibly worse, than a straight IP system. No one sells one but I can see a need for one. A $150 HD-SDI, $350ish encoder and with a VMS licenses would be a very cost effective HD upgrade option. So you're recommending vaporware? Now I understand... ?? I am not recommending anything I am simply saying there would be a need for a product. What's up with the hostility? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 22, 2013 Hostility? I just see no point converting HD-SDI to IP and then distributing the IP stream to a DVR/NVR for recording or monitoring. HD-SDI (or its sister technology, HDcctv) does apparently offer some image quality benefits for "live" monitoring, due to its lack of compression and ultra-low latency. However, once the signal is encoded and compressed, those benefits disappear. Starting with HD-SDI/HDcctv and then converting it to IP through an encoder before it reaches the monitor/recorder eliminates the benefits and adds unnecessary cost. It would be like using a gasoline engine to convert water to steam, then powering your car with a steam engine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 22, 2013 Hostility? I just see no point converting HD-SDI to IP and then distributing the IP stream to a DVR/NVR for recording or monitoring. HD-SDI (or its sister technology, HDcctv) does apparently offer some image quality benefits for "live" monitoring, due to its lack of compression and ultra-low latency. However, once the signal is encoded and compressed, those benefits disappear. Starting with HD-SDI/HDcctv and then converting it to IP through an encoder before it reaches the monitor/recorder eliminates the benefits and adds unnecessary cost. It would be like using a gasoline engine to convert water to steam, then powering your car with a steam engine. I am looking at this as a very cost effective way to upgrade current customers with analog cameras. I have tested many HD-SDI cameras starting at a $100 with very impressive image quality but terrible user experience with the DVRs. Our current customers with analog cameras have already total us they are not purchasing any more analog cameras when their current ones go bad. As you already know to upgrade these analog cameras our options are a) re-cable each camera b) use coax adapters. If I could replace the current analog encoders with HD-SDI encoders and then replace the cameras with HD-SDI cameras this COULD be a very effective way to upgrade to HD. I am not concerned at all with the other benefits a end to end HD-SDI system. I truly think this is the only way HD-SDI will take off for anything over 4-8 channel customers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baje 0 Posted February 24, 2013 That is precisely what im trying to accomplish.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 24, 2013 http://www.marshall-usa.com/IVS/Cameras/server_VS-102HDI-HDSDI.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted February 24, 2013 Two grand for four channels? Quite steep, especially when you consider HD-SDI cameras are priced in the same ballpark as IP cameras. Marshall's VS-541-HDSDI - 2.0MP 20X Zoom IP Box Camera is $2k. I can buy three or more 2MP IP cameras for the cost of one of their HD-SDI cameras. Adding an HD-SDI encoder puts that even further out of reach, with virtually no benefit over IP. Even adding EoC converters to the mix would still leave full-IP at approximately $800 to $1,00 per channel versus HD-SDI at $2,500 per channel. Yeah, there are cheaper alternative HD-SDI cameras but like Todd Rockoff says, there's no guarantee of compatibility within HD-SDI. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 24, 2013 I totally agree $2000 is ridiculous especially when I have a stack of 4 channel HD-SDI DVRs for $250 each and cameras ranging from $100 to $200. So far I haven't seen any compatibility issues with different manufactures of HD-SDI products Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrouchoBoucho 0 Posted February 24, 2013 Two grand for four channels? Quite steep, especially when you consider HD-SDI cameras are priced in the same ballpark as IP cameras. Marshall's VS-541-HDSDI - 2.0MP 20X Zoom IP Box Camera is $2k. I can buy three or more 2MP IP cameras for the cost of one of their HD-SDI cameras. Adding an HD-SDI encoder puts that even further out of reach, with virtually no benefit over IP. Even adding EoC converters to the mix would still leave full-IP at approximately $800 to $1,00 per channel versus HD-SDI at $2,500 per channel. i still haven't seen anyone address your other point at the very top of the thread, and is, what vms's would even support the sdi-to-ip encoders? it's all well and good that you could drop a couple grand to convert your sdi cameras to ip, but it doesn't do much good if you don't have a vms or nvr that can record that stream. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 24, 2013 I saw a HD-SDI encoder at ASIS and they had Milestone and think Exacq connected to it. I laughed at them when they told me the price was $2K MSRP. Also it took a lot of coaxing but they finally admitted that the unit did not have onboard motion detection so you had to use a VMS with server based motion detection. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blake 0 Posted May 25, 2013 Since your customer already stated no more analog cameras, why not just convert them over to ip slowly with a hybrid recorder and call it good? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted May 26, 2013 (edited) We already installed a hybrid solution for the customer. The point I am trying to make is it would be cheaper to use a hdsdi encoder with hdsdi cameras then use IP cameras where you will have to use coax converters or re-cable every analog to convert them to HD. Edited May 28, 2013 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vin2install 0 Posted May 28, 2013 I actually think the encoder is a good idea. I dont see why it would be so expensive since the DVR is a lot cheaper now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted May 28, 2013 Probably because there is little or no interest. HD-SDI is aimed at low-end users, as are DVRs (SD or HD). Typically, standalone encoder/VMS systems are aimed at the higher-end users. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
