Approximately 46 IP Cameras - Super NVR or Server?

[SickNick 0]

I am putting together a system for a large Residential building and I am going to end up with about 46 cameras. It is looking like a full IP camera system with a 48 port PoE switch powering it. I am a bit stuck on whether I should go with one of these:

 

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/nvr60006000d6000dr-3.html

 

or if I should go the server route and build one or pick up something like this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-PowerEdge-Quad-Core-2-66GHz-Gigabit/dp/B008PVD6MK/ref=sr_1_13?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1363468584&sr=1-13

 

 

I can customize a video storage server and get more processing power out of it, but I also have to have a Windows OS running on it which has a high license cost, and then pick a a video server software to use and pay a license for that etc. I do like the idea of running a dedicated NVR, it can handle recording and playing back up to 64 cameras at 720p which is great.

 

What do you guys think?

[ak357 0]

I am putting together a system for a large Residential building and I am going to end up with about 46 cameras. It is looking like a full IP camera system with a 48 port PoE switch powering it. I am a bit stuck on whether I should go with one of these:

 

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/nvr60006000d6000dr-3.html

 

or if I should go the server route and build one or pick up something like this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-PowerEdge-Quad-Core-2-66GHz-Gigabit/dp/B008PVD6MK/ref=sr_1_13?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1363468584&sr=1-13

 

 

I can customize a video storage server and get more processing power out of it, but I also have to have a Windows OS running on it which has a high license cost, and then pick a a video server software to use and pay a license for that etc. I do like the idea of running a dedicated NVR, it can handle recording and playing back up to 64 cameras at 720p which is great.

 

What do you guys think?

It's not just hardware u have to watch

It is how big network traffic going to be for 46 IP cams

can your server handle recording ?

[vector18 1]

At what resolution do you plan on recording those 46 IP cameras? That Dahua NVR can record only 64 at 720p or 32 at 1080p.

If your a huge Dahua fan and your very comfortable with it, you might even want to get several 4 channel NVR's, record all channels at 1080p and network a crazy server with tons of storage and run PSS on it. If it's in the budget and your familiar with other higher end

IP systems, than go better than Dahua. That's my .02.

[gilligan 0]

He mentioned the 64/720p limit in his post... But you could always do a mix of 1080 and 720 or reduce the frame rate to 15 fps (assuming on the fps).

[dexterash 0]

I do like the idea of running a dedicated NVR, it can handle recording and playing back up to 64 cameras at 720p which is great.

Something slipped you... Do you need recording&decoding/display or just recording?!

[SickNick 0]

I do like the idea of running a dedicated NVR, it can handle recording and playing back up to 64 cameras at 720p which is great.

Something slipped you... Do you need recording&decoding/display or just recording?!

 

Lol I am planning on recording and displaying also. It is not important for me to go with a full 1080p set up, 720p will be OK for the implementation. The Dahua can handle 64 cameras at 720p at 30fps, I will be only utilizing 46 cameras.

 

With 46 cameras at 720p @30fps, I am looking at about 6Mb/s per IP camera.

46x6Mb/s = 276Mb/s of data on the network switch. A gigabit switch should handle this at ease. I can even get a 10Gb/s switch if I really need to.

 

Also, thank you guys for your replies, I appreciate your input on this.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Are all cameras going to be less than 100 meters from the switch?

[buellwinkle 0]

Are all cameras going to be less than 100 meters from the switch?

 

Is that bad? We have cameras 500 meters from the switch.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Are all cameras going to be less than 100 meters from the switch?

 

Is that bad? We have cameras 500 meters from the switch.

 

Considering the physical limit of a segmet of copper to 568 standards is 100 meters then yes.

[SickNick 0]

Are all cameras going to be less than 100 meters from the switch?

 

It looks like all cameras will be under 100m runs. I have to verify this but if a few are over 100m I can always use PoE injectors. All floors have a small telecom closet so I can use to place them there.

[SickNick 0]

Going back to my main question, I think I'm leaning towards an NVR rather than a server. Any server I buy I'd probably have to add a video card. I feel like the more I add the more stability issues will I might have. Any experiences?

Edited March 18, 2013 by Guest

[vector18 1]

You don't like my idea of several 4 channel NVR's all on one network and run PSS on a server? You won't need a video card

and if the server has a great processor with i7 chip and tons of storage, everything will run smoothly.

[gilligan 0]

Similar to what Vector18 said,

 

I have been toying with a future upgrade not QUITE this big but close.

 

I am leaning towards multiple 16 channel NVR's (3216) vs the "enterprise" edition. Mainly due to cost as that unit isn't cheap from what I've seen. But I would like to know real world numbers on it.

 

One difference is I really don't need a universal monitoring of all the cameras. But 3 TV's monitoring 3 boxes wouldn't be that big of a deal.

[vector18 1]

The super nvr is roughly 5 grand or more in most places. An 8 channel NVR is 300-500 dollars depends where you get it.

So at the most, you can record 48 IP's for 3K using multiple nvrs. A Dell I7 desktop with 12gb ram, 2 tb hdd's, and nvidia video card is roughly 1K. So your still under 5K with better computing. And with PSS, there are no stupid licensing fees and what not.

[buellwinkle 0]

Are all cameras going to be less than 100 meters from the switch?

 

Is that bad? We have cameras 500 meters from the switch.

 

Considering the physical limit of a segmet of copper to 568 standards is 100 meters then yes.

 

That's crazy, 100m is the limit for Cat5 Ethernet, not for copper. You can run extenders over copper twisted pair easily for a kilometer.

[gilligan 0]

The super nvr is roughly 5 grand or more in most places. An 8 channel NVR is 300-500 dollars depends where you get it.

So at the most, you can record 48 IP's for 3K using multiple nvrs. A Dell I7 desktop with 12gb ram, 2 tb hdd's, and nvidia video card is roughly 1K. So your still under 5K with better computing. And with PSS, there are no stupid licensing fees and what not.

 

Yeah, my math was based on 15 FPS... I forgot he wanted 30. But if he would re-evaluate that then he could get away with 3 x 16 channels equaling 48 channels at 720p at 15 FPS. And that would be even cheaper.

[ssmith10pn 0]

That's crazy, 100m is the limit for Cat5 Ethernet, not for copper. You can run extenders over copper twisted pair easily for a kilometer.

 

I asked because rather than buy 1 expensive 48 port switch he may have to buy smaller switches and distribute them throughout the property.

Extenders are just another point of failure and a unnecessary added expense.

But if you did this for a living you would know that already.

[buellwinkle 0]

Haha, so you are saying that the best way to connect our 1,600' and 1,000' links is by buying 10 switches, having 110VAC installed every 300' to plug them into, install pedestals to house them and that would save me a lot of money because I wouldn't need $500 on two pairs of extenders? We should have you on this project because clearly I don't get it.

[SickNick 0]

You don't like my idea of several 4 channel NVR's all on one network and run PSS on a server? You won't need a video card

and if the server has a great processor with i7 chip and tons of storage, everything will run smoothly.

 

 

This is not a bad idea, ultimately I need to see how much I can get the NVR6000 from my supplier. Prices will vary depending on the size of the order as well.

 

If you have a server though, why would you have multiple smaller NVRs and store the video on the server? The server would eliminate the Standalone NVR as you can use surveillance software and camera management software and record the surveillance footage on the video storage server. This brings me to the classic argument of Standalone NVR vs PC Based NVR on a scale of 46 cameras.

[dexterash 0]

The super nvr is roughly 5 grand or more in most places. An 8 channel NVR is 300-500 dollars depends where you get it.

So at the most, you can record 48 IP's for 3K using multiple nvrs. A Dell I7 desktop with 12gb ram, 2 tb hdd's, and nvidia video card is roughly 1K. So your still under 5K with better computing. And with PSS, there are no stupid licensing fees and what not.

Are you sure it can decode and display 48 streams of 720p?

[tomcctv 190]

This is not a bad idea, ultimately I need to see how much I can get the NVR6000 from my supplier

 

 

also remember you need a PC as well.

 

 

5k on a nvr is just wasting your money. no Analytics limited to FPS limited to cameras and limited to camera display.

 

 

are you looking to display all cameras at same time ??? as do to this you need to order the nvr6000 with this installed (it costs extra)

 

 

what soprt of building are you installing in ???

[WRS_Mark 0]

Just out of curiosity, does everyone who is supplying this Dahua equipment disclose to the customer that factory tech support goes on holidays one month out of the year?

 

[ssmith10pn 0]

Haha, so you are saying that the best way to connect our 1,600' and 1,000' links is by buying 10 switches, having 110VAC installed every 300' to plug them into, install pedestals to house them and that would save me a lot of money because I wouldn't need $500 on two pairs of extenders? We should have you on this project because clearly I don't get it.

 

So your picturing your exact scenario and ASSUMING his is the same? Was the floor plan posted and I missed it?

Depends on the concentration of cameras. If it's just one or 2 cameras 1600' out I would probably lay a peice of fiber and use a 5 port switch with a gbic.

 

But if he has a building where about half of the cameras could pull to one location and half to another then I would use 2 switches not 24 extenders.

[SickNick 0]

Would it be possible to record to a NAS server and playback/monitor on a workstation running PSS or DSS?

 

I am also contemplating on going with something like Avigilon but I have no idea how much licensing would be for 40+ cameras.

[dexterash 0]

How would you decode/display 40+ 720p streams? With what workstation?