What video card for Axxon Next with 5mp cameras?

[FishFish 0]

Hi, I am new here.

 

I have 6 new 5mp IP cameras (10fps), for night time wildlife spotting (e.g. badger, fox, deer). Running win 8 64bit, with i7 @3.4GHz and 16 GB ram.

 

I was trying Axxon Next as it recognized the cards as ONVIF, but I don't have a separate video card and just viewing the 6 cameras maxes out my CUP (all 4 cores).

 

Can someone recommend a video card to take the load of my CPU?

[Kawboy12R 0]

I don't expect you'll get a ton of improvement but you might try sticking in a Radeon 6670. Axxon recommends Radeon 5000 and 6000 series cards. 6670 is pretty cheap and capable. A 7750 is quite a bit more capable in the 3D world but most likely wasted on what you're trying to do. I like quiet and reliable myself, so even though your CPU, case, and PSU fans with the system at 100% would overpower the sound of a GPU fan I'd probably pick this card- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102950

 

I'd bet that you're simply overtaxing your CPU, although you've got a nice fast one and seem to be well within their recommendations for the number of cameras with it. Video analytics are CPU intensive and you've got 30 megapixels to view and play with. I didn't see how many megapixels they rate as a single camera (might be VGA or D1 equals a camera?) , so 30mp in 6 5mp cameras could be 6 cameras, it might be 30 one megapixel cameras, or 30mp/(.640x.480) might even possibly be 98 VGA cameras. Does it have any "live" analytics features that you have turned on that'd be burning CPU cycles?

 

Have you asked on their forum about the high CPU usage yet?

[buellwinkle 0]

I tried Axxon and it's probably the single most CPU intensive NVR software I've tested. Not sure a 2-3 year old consumer grade i7 can run Axxon.

 

Maybe something like a dual socket server with Intel E7 series, maybe the E7-8870. Start with one CPU for the 6 cameras you have and then add the second CPU as you add a few more cameras. It may even work with Intel E5 series if money is tight.

[slogic 0]

I hate to disagree with Buellwinkle, I really enjoy his blog and reviews, but here is my experience with Axxon Next. I installed four Dahua cameras around my home (the 1.3 bullets and 2 meg dome) last fall and have been using Blue Iris. I've liked the application with two exceptions - the high CPU utilization and the number of false alarms I must endure. My server has 16gig of ram and a Opteron 6180 6 core CPU, and CPU utilization in service mode was close to 50% accross all cores. I read his review of Axxon but I thought "how much worse could it be"?

 

I read the hardware requirements including heavy use of OpenGL, so I ordered this card:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202002

 

I installed the card and then after stopping the Blue Iris service, installed Axxon. after installation, with no cameras added, it was running at 39% utilization! I thought this was going to end poorly. In the release notes, I saw a comment the there was a known conflict with NOD32 AV (which I was running) and to exclude the IP addresses of the cameras or disable the service. After excluding the IP addresses, CPU utilization dropped to 27%. A nice improvement, but what would adding a Megapixel camera do? Here's where it gets interesting. For every camera I add, my CPU utilization increases 3-4%. That's it. So my CPU utilization with Axxon and the same Dahua cameras is running 11% lower than Blue Iris. I can now add additional cameras without concern or needing to upgrade my server CPU which I was considering. I also like all the different analytics that Axxon has that you can use to trigger alerts that Blue Iris does not. I've reduced my alerts due to birds, weather and the like by about 75% by using the situation analysis (line crossing, moving object of a certain size, etc) vs just motion detection.

 

The documetation is not as clear as I would like, and I've noticed sometimes when I've made changes on one camera and hit apply, I get taken back to the first camera in my list so there are a few quirks, but I think if you have a camera on their list or that fully supports ONVIF, it's the best deal in town (free).

 

I believe that OpenGL resorts to CPU cycles, so the video card should make a big difference for you. I installed my card before I installed Axxon, but I imagine if I didn't my experience would have been poor as Buellwinkle's was. Oh, one last item, if you are running headless, you can't start Axxon on your server via Remote Desktop, as it won't utilize the local video card for the OpenGL. As I mentioned, I had to work through a few issues and read the documentation, but it's been well worth it for me. YMMV, of course.

[buellwinkle 0]

Good to know. I don't have a discrete video card on my desktop where I tested so didn't know a video card can make such a difference. When I ran it, it ate 1 full core per camera, on the 4th camera my quad core PC became unresponsive, took me a while just to bring up task manager to kill the process to stop it. It's likely they made performance improvements since I tested it a few months ago.

 

I'll give it another test, but before I do, what's the best bang for buck video card that will improve performance on Axxon? My NVR PC (running BlueIris) I believe has a video card slot, I'll have to open it up and see.

[Kawboy12R 0]

If it uses OpenGL then adding a discrete video card will definitely help. I must've missed that recommendation in the specs. Most CCTV software is pretty much pure CPU with 2D display and discrete graphics cards are pretty much just glorified number-crunchers for 3D modeling. GeoVision does use the math skills of some of Intel's integrated 3D chips to help though. Axxon must've figured it was worth traveling the minefield of different graphics card driver implementations to be able to use the processing power available in discrete cards.

[buellwinkle 0]

Checked the specs on my desktop and it has an NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M chip that supports OpenGL but the OpenGL driver from NVIDIA didn't come out till late 2012, so I did my test on Axxon without this driver.

[MaxIcon 0]

Expanding on what Kawboy said:

 

When comparing video card chipset benchmarks, like Passmark, it's important to separate out the 2D and 3D scores, since most NVR software doesn't use the 3D part, and that's what many of the more powerful video cards are optimized for. The site typically only posts the aggregate score.

 

On my new Blue Iris install, with the on-chip Intel HD4000 video, I tested it with an older high-end video card with 2x the benchmark of the HD4000 to see if it made a difference. There was very little change in CPU utilization, and no change in display quality.

 

When I ran the benchmarks locally, it turned out the add-on card had almost identical 2D performance compared to the HD4000; it was the 3D performance that cranked up the aggregate benchmark score, s0 it didn't help me any.

 

The main effect was to increase my power usage from 90W to 140W. That's still low power for the video card, since the 3D circuitry wasn't being used at all. It would have more than doubled power usage had the 3D been used.

[slogic 0]

Hello Buellwinkle,

I would recommend the same card I linked to above, the SAPPHIRE 100357LP Radeon HD 7750. It takes up only a single slot and comes with the low profile bracket installed, a regular bracket is in the box. Only about $100 with the current $10 rebate. If your other card is integrated you may need to make a change in your BIOS for the external card to be the primary (at least I did).

On the specs page for Axxon Next, it states a minimum OpenGL version of 1.3, I believe when I installed the regular catalyst drivers my OpenGl version is 4.3, is running really well for me (Just don't spend 2 hours like I did not understanding why I couldn't start Axxon via Remote Desktop). If you use the 330M you have, it looks like it supports the 3 OpenGl extensions required (ARB_vertex_program, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, GL_ARB_framebuffer_object ) except for one version of the driver:

 

http://feedback.wildfiregames.com/report/opengl/device/GeForce%20GT%20330M

 

Just one other note, whereas with Blue Iris your client and server is running on the same system, in my case I installed a 2nd version of Axxon in client mode on my workstation, as my server is dedicated to the security cameras, Plex Media Center, and a few other small apps, I prefer to use a server as a server when I can. This may have my utilization lower than if I was doing everything in one box. I made several mistakes in trying to get this to work, if I can be of assistance with anything please feel free to ask.

 

I saw you've been doing several reviews of Axis cameras, I've been looking for anyone that has their new domes in stock like the e72/e73, if you know of someone reputable could you PM me?

[buellwinkle 0]

Hello Buellwinkle,

 

I saw you've been doing several reviews of Axis cameras, I've been looking for anyone that has their new domes in stock like the e72/e73, if you know of someone reputable could you PM me?

 

I'm currently reviewing the Axis P3367, you must mean the ACTi cameras. The e72/e73 should perform like the e32/e33 I reviewed except in a dome form factor. I'm going to Vegas tomorrow to the ISC conference, I'll see what they are demo'ing on the floor. The dome to get will be the E84 and they are taking orders but haven't shipped yet. Hopefully I can review that real soon.

[slogic 0]

Yes, meant the Acti, sorry. The few online sites that claim to have them aren't ones I've either purchased from before or are large enough to trust.

[Q2U 0]

...here is my experience with Axxon Next. I installed four Dahua cameras around my home...

 

Teriffic post! Thank you.

[MaxIcon 0]

My NVR PC (running BlueIris) I believe has a video card slot, I'll have to open it up and see.

Are you still running the little AutoNVR PC? If so, it's got a slot on the motherboard, but there's no room in the case for a card. I had to move the motherboards in a couple of mine to new boxes to get room for a card or for more drives.

[slogic 0]

Hello all,

As I had the need to open my first helpdesk ticket with Axxon, I thought I'd pass the experience on for those who are thinking about trying it.

 

B&H finally had the Acti e72 in stock, so I ordered one. I tried to install it in Axxon Next as an ONVIF camera and it was a no-go. They did have a driver for the e71, and when I tried that one it worked, although I was limited to the 1 megapixel resolution on the e71. Axxon releases driver packs monthly with new cameras added, so I thought I'd make a request for them to add the e72 to the next pack.

 

In several places on their website and LinkedIn page they tell you to email support. If you do, you'll receive an automated reply to use their helpdesk at support.axxonsoft.com. I created an account, opened a ticket that I was using the free version and requested that they please add the Acti e72 to their next camera pack release. I received a series of auto generated emails over the next 8 hours as to the status of my ticket - assigned to an individual, to another, sent to product management, etc. After only 8 hours, a final notice that my ticket was resolved and the e72 has been added. While I'm sure since the e71 was already included there wasn't too much to do to add the e72, I certainly didn't expect that level of support from a user of the 16 camera free version and a resolution in only 8 hours.

 

I'm very impressed. Just thought I'd share.

[buellwinkle 0]

I installed Axxon because some say it's better, lower CPU usage. Put it on an i5 sandy bridge processor PC, nothing else running, 2 1080P cameras and it's eating up most of the machine, not when it's idle but when it records. Maybe adding more cameras will not add more load. I tried to run it on my i3 but it doesn't have an opengl video card so it just wouldn't start.

 

Then the recordings, it plays back very choppy, maybe like 1-2 fps but I told it to record 30fps. Can't figure out how to export the video or I would show you. It's really a tough program to figure out and constantly referring to the manual. It really messed up my Dahua because when you setup the camera, it sends out default password logins until the camera locks you out, then it lets you put the real password in, but you have to disable the camera for about 15-20 minutes so it can log in again, frustrating as heck. The Swann went better because I'm using the default password.

 

Any ideas on getting a nice smooth play back and export the video?

[slogic 0]

I installed Axxon because some say it's better, lower CPU usage. Put it on an i5 sandy bridge processor PC, nothing else running, 2 1080P cameras and it's eating up most of the machine, not when it's idle but when it records. Maybe adding more cameras will not add more load. I tried to run it on my i3 but it doesn't have an opengl video card so it just wouldn't start.

 

Then the recordings, it plays back very choppy, maybe like 1-2 fps but I told it to record 30fps. Can't figure out how to export the video or I would show you. It's really a tough program to figure out and constantly referring to the manual. It really messed up my Dahua because when you setup the camera, it sends out default password logins until the camera locks you out, then it lets you put the real password in, but you have to disable the camera for about 15-20 minutes so it can log in again, frustrating as heck. The Swann went better because I'm using the default password.

 

Any ideas on getting a nice smooth play back and export the video?

 

 

Sure, I think I can help. Are they both Dahua cameras? Which model? My Dahua domes worked flawlessly, the bullets took some tweaking to get the video right.

 

Regarding the login/password, I noticed when I added my first camera it tried the default admin password and locked it out. Because of that, when I added my other cameras, I changed the password back to the Dahua default on the camera first, added the camera to Axxon, disabled the camera, changed the password on the camera and in Axxon before I enabled it again so I didn't have to deal with the lockout.

[buellwinkle 0]

For testing, one is a Dahua HFW3200C (1080P) and the other is a Swann/Hikvision bullet (1080P). Both are configured and I can see them in Live View. Both are recording but again, it's like 1 fps but it shows 30 fps for the Dahua, but for some reason 12 fps on the Hikvision, maybe I picked the wrong model for this as the real model did not exist in the drop down.

[slogic 0]

For testing, one is a Dahua HFW3200C (1080P) and the other is a Swann/Hikvision bullet (1080P). Both are configured and I can see them in Live View. Both are recording but again, it's like 1 fps but it shows 30 fps for the Dahua, but for some reason 12 fps on the Hikvision, maybe I picked the wrong model for this as the real model did not exist in the drop down.

 

Yes, I only see the HFW3300C in the dropdown with this firmware build: 2.210.0000.0.R, build: 2013-01-25. You could try that (you more than likely will need to manually set resolution and FPS in the camera to match the NVR as it's expecting a 3 megapixel), otherwise if it's not specifically listed, I would recommend removing it and re-adding it as an ONVIF single stream camera. The camera list from the last support pack is here in an excel file:

 

http://www.axxonsoft.com/integrated_security_solutions/supported_ip.php

 

I'll see if I can write up a configuration of one of my Dahua's in Axxon from start to finish and send it to you this weekend. There has to be an explanation as to the high CPU, your i5 should beat my Opteron 4180 no problem as far as performance, but as I mentioned with 4 cameras I'm sometimes in the 40% zone, usually lower, so there has to be a logical explanation as to why your CPU is so high.

 

BTW, Swann Tech told me that those Swann Bullets don't support ONVIF (as I really wanted to replace my hfw2100s with them), so I'm not sure how that one is going to work, but I'd be curious to know.

[buellwinkle 0]

Don't know about ONVIF but it works with Axxon, just select a Hikvision camera that's close.

[FishFish 0]

After a lot of fiddling, a new Radion HD 7850, adding liquid cooling so I could overclock the CPU from 3.4 to about 4.5GHz, overclocking the graphics card, and a few reinstalls, new drivers for the card, and installing the new version 3.1 from Axxon... I was still getting my CPU eaten at 80-90+%!

 

Then, a breakthrough! When I added my 5mp cameras as ONVIF, they each showed up in Devices with "Telemetry" and "Microphone", both functions were enabled by default. I just disabled these one after the other and the CPU and the Apphost.exe process went down each time:), I only have 4 of the cameras running at the moment (not due to Axxon) but have CPU at 20-30% with constant recording and several line crossings enables in the detectors. It's had me fooled a few times, but this time it seems to be working.

 

It is an excellent programme

Still a lot to learn, and I wonder what it would cost for the Forensic search feature.

I hope to have all 6 cameras running next weekend. Many thanks for the input of everyone, it stopped me from giving up on it!