Newbie looking for low end IP Camera

[JeffW 0]

I've read a number of the posts here and think maybe a Dahua 1.3 bullet ip camera or similar would work for me but would like some input.

 

Application: General day and night monitoring of residential driveway that I can't see from the main living area of the house. The driveway is 2 cars wide and about 80 feet long but we park next to the house. I'd like to use my pc with software that will let me alarm and record on motion. Access over the internet would be nice but not required.

 

I'm considering one of the two cameras below but they both seem the same to me except for the night vision distance claims. Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Price is a factor and I'd like to keep the camera under $250 if I can. Thanks

 

http://www.247securitycameras.com/nbsp-p/dh-ipc-hfw2100n.htm

 

http://www.securitycameraking.com/1.3-megapixel-ip-network-59132-prd1.html

 

EDIT: I also forgot to mention the camera will be mounted under the eaves of the house at the gable peak. That will give it a slight downward tilt.

 

Another camera I noticed in the postings that might be an options is the ESC-1-ip.

 

http://empiresecuritycameras.com/p-70-esc-1-ip-13mp-720p-outdoor-bullet-ip-poe-camera-28-12mm-zoom-lens-onvif.aspx

Edited April 8, 2013 by Guest

[cctv_down_under 0]

That is a fairly inexpensive camera, and it has an inbuilt fixed board lens, from what I can tell.

 

This gives me two concerns -

 

 

1/ A fixed board lens does not normally come with an Auto Iris (it may have electronic adjustment) - so this is akin to looking at the sun without being able to blink or squint - so I cant see how the IR component would be of great use, unless there is a IR cut filter in the camera, cameras can see a whole scale of light that we cannot - if we did not put a filter to protect the sensor, then it would see some parts of IR light and the video would be useless, so they put a filter in place, so this means it blocks IR light sources (like the ones attached to it).

 

2/ Your driveway will not be wide, at most it will be two cars widths, and the fixed lens you have in that device will have a very wide view, and will not be adjustable, what does this mean - well, the wider the view - the shorter the depth of field, so you will find that the only areas that are of any use of the view will be very close to the camera and it will be much wider than you need. An adjustable Auto iris lens would be better IMHO

[JeffW 0]

Thanks for the input. Auto iris is not something I understand but will definitely do some research on. Is there any particular camera you might suggest?

[ssnapier 0]

How about this: http://.com/cameras/hi-def-ip-cameras/1-3-mp.html

 

EDIT: not sure why this address was filtered, but that seems pretty childish... what gives?

Edited April 10, 2013 by Guest

[JeffW 0]

How about this: http://./cameras/hi-def-ip-cameras/1-3-mp.html

 

Link doesn't seem to work for me.

[Kawboy12R 0]

Ssnapier's link went to a site that is censored by this forum. The powers that be here don't want the name mentioned so it gets changed to a period. It's not the only one either. Some other brand names get automagically changed to "Dahua".

[MaxIcon 0]

The first 2 cams you list are the same camera (Dahua HFW2100), just from different vendors. Same with the camera with the link renaming problem.

 

The Dahua's a great camera for getting started, and the ESC is getting good reviews too, though it's bigger than the Dahua. Yes, the lens may not be optimal for details at the longer range, but that's hard to say without trying it in place, and replacement lenses are inexpensive.

 

Night vision distance claims are almost always overstated, typically by twice what's really usable. The HFW2100 won't give you usable details at 80' at night. Few 1.3MP cams will, unless you use a longer lens that will zoom you in to the end of the driveway. This will cut the field of view at the cars, but may not be an issue since they're close. A lens calculator can help figure this out.

 

Also, depending on the camera height and the relative angles to the cars and driveway end, you may have to compromise between how well centered the driveway end view is compared to the cars. Onboard IR points to the same place as the center of the lens, so that will affect your IR effectiveness. External IR can help illuminate long views and give better detail, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish to deal with.

 

To view cars at 20' and the driveway at 80' effectively would take 2 cams, and you'd still need some illumination at 80', since the on-cam IR really won't be too effective at that distance.

 

The best way to learn is to pick something that looks like a good bet and jump on it. It's hard to go wrong with the Dahua 2100 in that price range, as there's lots of community support for them, and they're good cameras for the money, though not perfect.

 

I've never used the Dahua software for recording, so you should get some feedback on whether their bundled software will do what you want. Otherwise, count on another $50 for Blue Iris, or try some of the free packages like Xprotect Go, and make sure you have enough CPU horsepower.

[JeffW 0]

....The best way to learn is to pick something that looks like a good bet and jump on it. It's hard to go wrong with the Dahua 2100 in that price range, as there's lots of community support for them, and they're good cameras for the money, though not perfect.

 

Thanks for all the input here. After reading reviews and postings until my eyes crossed... I ordered a pair of the Q-See 1.3mp ip cameras with 6mm lens. If I've understood the specs and posts these are about the same as the Dahua 2100 and might be a good place to start.

 

I do appreciate the input I receved on the forum and look forward to posting updates once the cameras arrive and get themselves installed.

[cctv_down_under 0]

and replacement lenses are inexpensive.

 

Isnt it a board lens with inbuit IR's - pretty sure that would be hard to replace, if at all, not all board lenses have the same thread length - this could risk over or under tigtening withc will usually mark or crack the CCD

 

 

Ssnapier's link went to a site that is censored by this forum. The powers that be here don't want the name mentioned so it gets changed to a period. It's not the only one either. Some other brand names get automagically changed to "Dahua".

 

Please tell me you are joking, I have not been in this forum for years - I certainly hope this is not the case - I was a founding membber back when we only had a few guys...our aim - Was to weed out the cheap Chinese Garbage and provide info to the end user so that they could be eductaed about cheap inferior products, and yet, all I see through this forum - is sprouting of very cheap Chinese Junk...whats going on here

To view cars at 20' and the driveway at 80' effectively would take 2 cams, and you'd still need some illumination at 80', since the on-cam IR really won't be too effective at that distance.

 

 

I cant say I agree with the above statement - while generally correct, it is not technically correct... a PTZ or a very large MP camera is a single camera - also a camera with just optical Zoom, is still a single camera, and for illuminination that would depend on the lux rating at the location....if you stear away from cheap jumk, you can get some very low lux cameras that are not rated with silly 50IRE ratings or fake F Stop values - so in short even though the distance is a long way, if you have light at the scene you may be ok with a proper analogue PTZ with IR cut filter - but the poster is partly correct, zooming in will close the iris.

 

Understanding what an auto iris does is fairly simple, its just like a human eye, if you look towards the sunlit area outside your iris will close down - and if you look towards a dark area - your iris opens - you can see this on a human quite easily as the center part of the eye, the dark bit will open and close, the lense is similar, but cheap board fixed lenses like in that camera can not adjust - so if its sunny they go too white and when dark, they cant see well - its like setting your eye to average and leaving it there.... an Auto Iris uses a drive to adjust based on the amount of light available - kinda like the human eye - if it is dark it opens etc, also Auto Iris lenses are typically ground aspherically (these days) so they cast an even amount of light onto the CCD - this means that they are much more effective at casting light onto the guts of the camera that need to recieve light - lastly the auto iris lense often has many elements, for your info you can read that as many pieces of glass - this is used to correct the balance of light and to cast an even amount of light onto the CCD - buit in short a Board lense can cost a few dollars to a few cents, but an Auto Iris lens is much more expensive.

 

I see you have already ordered, so my bet is you will be happy with the close up pics, if you dont get a halo effect - but you will be unhappy with daylight images when the sun is looking at the camera - I bet you wont see close enough to the wall near the roller doors and that it wont last more than 12 months

[JeffW 0]

I see you have already ordered, so my bet is you will be happy with the close up pics, if you dont get a halo effect - but you will be unhappy with daylight images when the sun is looking at the camera - I bet you wont see close enough to the wall near the roller doors and that it wont last more than 12 months

 

You may very well be right about the cameras I ordered but time will tell. My hope is just to get a general view of the area. I'm not concerned (at this time) about making out faces or license plates. Just want to see if the driveway alarm was set off by the neighbor's cat or by a vehicle. Given the orientation of the house I have a place to install the cameras so direct sunlight does not hit the lens. No garage but I will probably wind up with a different camera and focal length to see close to the wall.

 

Thanks for the info on auto iris. That's definitely a desirable feature but seemed out of my price range for my current objective. If you can suggest a better camera in my price range than what I've ordered I've still time to cancel.

 

Thanks

[Kawboy12R 0]

Ssnapier's link went to a site that is censored by this forum. The powers that be here don't want the name mentioned so it gets changed to a period. It's not the only one either. Some other brand names get automagically changed to "Dahua".

 

Please tell me you are joking, I have not been in this forum for years - I certainly hope this is not the case - I was a founding membber back when we only had a few guys...our aim - Was to weed out the cheap Chinese Garbage and provide info to the end user so that they could be eductaed about cheap inferior products, and yet, all I see through this forum - is sprouting of very cheap Chinese Junk...whats going on here

 

No joke on the censorship and brand replacement, at least not on my part. I'm sort of new here so I can't tell you what's happened to cause this, only what I've seen here since last summer. Soundy or Rory might be able to give you some answers but they aren't on here anymore. You might be able to get in touch on their own work sites if you're curious.

 

As for the Chinese junk, the common aim here seems to be finding "good" junk. Not many are comfortable with $500/cam, let alone $1000+. I'm an end user so it interests me as well, but I don't mind spending extra money for higher end gear that does what I want it to do.

[MaxIcon 0]

and replacement lenses are inexpensive.

 

Isnt it a board lens with inbuit IR's - pretty sure that would be hard to replace, if at all, not all board lenses have the same thread length - this could risk over or under tigtening withc will usually mark or crack the CCD

These are pretty straightforward to replace. As you say, some M12 lenses have too-long shafts, and won't even focus on some cams. Actual lens size is another issue, as a poster mentioned recently in another thread. In any case, lots of people have changed the lenses on the Dahua/QSee cameras, and there are some posts about it here, with recommendations on what to buy. This is some of the community support I referred to.

 

Ssnapier's link went to a site that is censored by this forum. The powers that be here don't want the name mentioned so it gets changed to a period. It's not the only one either. Some other brand names get automagically changed to "Dahua".

 

Please tell me you are joking, I have not been in this forum for years - I certainly hope this is not the case - I was a founding membber back when we only had a few guys...our aim - Was to weed out the cheap Chinese Garbage and provide info to the end user so that they could be eductaed about cheap inferior products, and yet, all I see through this forum - is sprouting of very cheap Chinese Junk...whats going on here

There was drama around a few members, having to do with the board rules, and the admin wielded the banhammer. It wasn't about product quality, but shilling and recommendations.

 

Currrently, the best value cameras are Chinese, as well as the worst value cameras. There's not much else in the under $300 range for those of us using home systems on budgets.

 

To view cars at 20' and the driveway at 80' effectively would take 2 cams, and you'd still need some illumination at 80', since the on-cam IR really won't be too effective at that distance.

 

I cant say I agree with the above statement - while generally correct, it is not technically correct... a PTZ or a very large MP camera is a single camera - also a camera with just optical Zoom, is still a single camera, and for illuminination that would depend on the lux rating at the location....if you stear away from cheap jumk, you can get some very low lux cameras that are not rated with silly 50IRE ratings or fake F Stop values - so in short even though the distance is a long way, if you have light at the scene you may be ok with a proper analogue PTZ with IR cut filter - but the poster is partly correct, zooming in will close the iris.

Due to cost constraints, I believe the OP isn't looking for a PTZ or a very large MP camera with good low-light performance. PTZ requires either manual intervention or automation to zoom on areas of interest. While both are done routinely, they're not something I'd recommend to a first-time user looking to get their feet wet on security cams.

 

Likewise, cams that are good with very low light without IR are going to be out of his price range.

 

The advice is to help calibrate OP's expectations of what he can get in his stated price range. An Avigilon 29MP would certainly do the trick for him if he had unlimited budget, but he's there in the mid-price home user range, like many of us.

 

It could be worse - he could be asking about Foscam.

[MaxIcon 0]

Here's a night shot from my HFW2100 with a 3.6mm lens in a pretty similar situation. It's a bit under the eaves, about 8' high. Any higher, and I'd have to tilt it down more and lose some of the street view.

 

The rear of the Miata is about 25' away, so 80' is probably at the curb across the street. When there are people in the view there, you can see that they're people, but that's about it.

 

I also just noticed that 12 of the 30 IR LEDs are out on this cam. This is a bad sign, usually seen on bottom-feeder cameras, often a result of overdriving the LEDs to get more output. This type of problem gets worse in the summer because of the heat, and we've just had our first few hot days. I'll pull it down and see what's up with them sometime soon, but it's not a good indication of quality.

 

[JeffW 0]

... 12 of the 30 IR LEDs are out on this cam.

 

I hope that isn't a sign of what's to come for me.

 

My two 6mm Q-See bullets (Dahua 2100s) came in from Costco yesterday and spent the night staring out into nothing. They were a no-brainer to add to BI evaluation version thanks to the postings here and on the BI forum. They spent the night in the junk room staring at nothing just to get a good run in.

 

This afternoon I'll install them and hope to have a couple of pictures to post early next week.

[JeffW 0]

They are here and installed....Two Q-See (HFW2100) connected via Cat5 > TPLink TL-SF1008P PoE switch > Linksys WRT54g (wireless client bridge mode) > PC w/Blue Iris eval version (thus the eval bar across the pictures)

 

Both cameras are mounted at gable peak about 16 ft from ground. IMO the day and low light pictures are good. The night IR pictures are ok. No illumination other than the built-in IR. The distances involved come into play as do the insects swarming around the IR LEDs. Approximately 75 feet to the end of the driveway and about the same to the shed door.

 

The pictures suit my purpose of simply having a view of areas I can't see otherwise unless I take a hike. I may wind up adding external IR and kill the built in just to keep the bugs away.

 

Driveway pictures here. Shed pictures in the next post. Later I'll figure out how to include a video sample.

 

Thanks again to all for the input and help here.

 

[JeffW 0]

The other Q-See 2100 .....

16 ft off ground... approx 75 ft to shed door...no external lighting other than IRs on camera.

[Q2U 0]

The other Q-See 2100 .....16 ft off ground... approx 75 ft to shed door...no external lighting other than IRs on camera...

 

I wonder if the night shots would be a lot better is you install two (2) motion activated floodlights to the side of the camera and pointing at the shed.

[JeffW 0]

You're probably right about additional lighting improving the night shots. The distance involved is at or near the max for the stated night capability of these cameras.