n00b looking for assistance building a 10-camera system

[ashaism 0]

I've been browsing these threads a bit throughout the morning and I'm finding myself unusually confused. I'm not the most tech-savvy person, though I used to build my own computers and know how to set up a sexy machine for a very low price. Unfortunately, I've discovered that the CCTV world is quite a bit more complicated than that.

 

While I generally know what my needs are, the price points seem to vary greatly and I can't yet differentiate between the rip-off and the quality buy.

 

We would really appreciate if some of you experts can provide me with some suggestions on what type of cameras to buy and whether or not it's smarter to buy separate parts across various websites or to buy a bundle. Any suggestion or help that could keep the price down while assuring a good quality for residential use would be much appreciated.

 

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ABOUT US / OUR NEEDS

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My husband and I are pretty young. We're both victims of the current climate in the Bay Area's internet social gaming industry, so we're recently unemployed and trying to manage a very tight budget, especially with our first baby coming. However, we'd like to make sure that the CCTV system we invest in will be of quality since this is more of a one-time long term investment.

 

A little background on where we live/our circumstances:

- Recently moved into Oakland, CA (crime central, our neighborhood's a prime target for burglars, we know a few people who've been robbed here)

- 36 weeks pregnant and expecting our first baby sometime within the next 2 weeks.

- 3000sq ft property w/5 doors leading into the house

- In a hilly area with plenty of trees.

 

What we think we need:

- 6 indoor color cameras

- 4 outdoor color cameras

- At least 720p. (not sure if this is how CCTV resolution is measured, but we'd like crisp images)

- Password-protected remote access. (ability to see through iphone/ipad/android/pc/tv at home)

- Ability to back-up onto a USB or external hard-drives. (We already have a few Western Digital 1TB hard drives.)

- Low lux (we'd like to be able to see a clear image under low light conditions)

 

Some questions:

- Is the price difference between a wired and wireless network really significant? (Our Comcast modem is a bit unreliable, will that be an issue? My husband was a bit uncomfortable with drilling holes and setting up wiring for the cameras in the house, so he's been asking if wireless cameras were similarly priced.)

- If in a few years home automation becomes more affordable, will a typical CCTV system be compatible?

[MaxIcon 0]

IP cams are evolving rapidly these days, and whatever you buy will still be good in 3 years, but you'll be able to buy better for less money by then, so don't worry too much about the long-term.

 

First question - PC or dedicated NVR? Sounds like your comfortable with PCs, and they offer the most flexibility by far, but require a POE switch or two with enough ports to support your cameras. Dedicated NVRs tend to be more stable and more user-friendly, and often have POE ports built in these days, but at the cost of flexibility and expandability.

 

As a PC geek, I prefer PCs. There are lots of NVR software packages, and many have demo versions.

 

So, a good starting point is to come up with a per-camera budget.

 

Under $200 per cam? You're looking at 720p outdoor IR bullets like the Dahua HWF2100 or the Empire Security ESC-1 IP. There are others, but you'd do well to stick with something that has good community support and good reviews.

 

Under $400 takes you up to 1080p with WDR, which is useful in tricky lighting, and expands to more mainstream cameras like ACTi, with better support than the Dahua type.

 

Indoor is pretty flexible, though a bit tricky in terms of privacy. I only have outdoor cams and one inside my garage, though if I didn't have pets, I'd consider an indoor cam for the motion detection capability.

 

My recommendation for starting out? Pick a couple of well-reviewed cameras in your budget range, find some software demos, and start working with them. You'll quickly learn what matters to you and what the limitations are, and decent cameras can always be resold on ebay for relatively little loss if you decide you made the wrong choice.

 

I like the cost/quality knee, and I'd buy a couple of Dahua 2100 bullets from Empire Security to start with (or the QSee pair from Costco, which has a longer lens that some like and some don't), since they're useful in many locations. Download the Blue Iris demo (and check the community forum at cam-it.org), get a Zyxel POE switch, and install them in some key locations (like the front door and the driveway or back door), and you're ready to learn the basics.

 

After that, you'll have a lot better idea on what to buy next.

 

ETA: Wireless is no good for that many cams, tends to be unreliable, and you need a wire for power anyway. Much better to go POE and run a network cable. For home automation, it's way too early to worry about that.

 

Also, a couple of ADT signs, front and back, can help a lot in keeping the low-lifes away.

[tomcctv 190]

if you want long term investment like you say...... then a dahua is not the unit. there rang is about to change.

 

 

what is your budget.

 

also can you make a sketch of your property with distance from recorder to camera location.

[Q2U 0]

My limted experience suggests that your looking at a minimum of $200.00 per cheapo 2MP camera + $1,500.00 for a decent i7 PC with decent 7200 rpm drives + maybe $100.00 for server and mobile device software (I'm thinking Blue Iris, although there are free Linux alternatives and some Windows freeware out there), $150.00 for (DIY) Cat5e cabling and perhaps $500.00 for incidentals.

 

My guess is $4,2500 will get you close to where you suggest you want to be.

 

Maybe it's time to start compromising?

 

P.S. I don't think the Homeowners Rule fo Four will apply to the numbers I've suggested.

[MaxIcon 0]

Yeah, Dahua is really for getting your feet wet at a low cost. If your budget supports it, there are definitely better cams out there, so it really depends on what you're willing to spend.

 

I just discovered multiple IR LED failures on one of my Dahuas, which drops them a good bit on the quality ladder. No other reports of similar failures yet, but this cam hasn't even been in service a year yet. My other cams have been running much longer with no issues.

 

Regardless, for a DIY system, I'd still recommend starting with a few cameras, rather than buying the whole setup at once, since you will learn a lot from the first two that will affect your choices for the rest.

[Q2U 0]

...I just discovered multiple IR LED failures on one of my Dahuas, which drops them a good bit on the quality ladder. ..

 

Max, I've been thinking, which is always a dangerous thing. Why not let something like this do the lighting and let the cameras do the camerating?

 

I've been running a couple of these units (2 bulbs each) with two 90-watt equivelent LED bulbs in each unit, and they light up the entire driveway and my large patio and they do it for pennies. They allow you to turn them off automatically at dawn and on at dusk...and they only fire when motion is detected. Then they stay on for a user defined period of time. And the motion detection is very, very, good.

 

I guess the downside is that the bulbs cost $40.00 EACH but they'll probably be $7.50 in a year.

 

What do you think?

[Kawboy12R 0]

Good, wireless, camera, and cheap generally aren't mentioned together in sentences that don't also include the word impossible. 10 wireless cameras on a budget running in a home where I'll bet you also run laptops, iPads, smartphones, microwaves, cordless phones, etc? I wouldn't even try. Some of the others have mentioned Dahuas which are nice and cheap if you get them from China or in a package system from Costco (QSee rebrands them). You'd need two systems for enough channels though- an 8ch (with 4 outdoor bullets) for indoors and a 4ch with 4 outdoor bullets for the outdoor cameras. If you wanted indoor domes in some locations, they make a 2mp QSee day-only minidome for $200. That gives you NVRs with HDs, a bunch of cams, and wiring for a good price but limited by giving you a whole bunch of 6mm (not wideangle) lensed outdoor bullets when you probably only want 4.

 

Now, if you don't mind having TWO different systems, the Costco QSee 4ch might do you for outdoors for $699. Can't beat that price for 4 cams, NVR with HD, wires, and a no-hassle Costco warranty. The major drawback is you've got 4 6mm cameras when you might really want one 6mm and three 3.6mm (or whatever) for broader coverage up close. Hard to say precisely without knowing the layout. Maybe skip Dahua for inside and use ACTi 1mp D51 indoor domes at under $160 each shipped from a place like bhphotovideo.com. ACTi cams come with free NVR software that don't use much in the way of CPU power (unlike Blue Iris), so you could run a bunch from an old desktop computer with a big HD in it. Add a switch with enough PoE ports to handle your cameras, a box of Cat5e for $80 or so, crimpers for $40, rj45 tester for under $20, and you're golden. You might even have the computer laying around already. Allow a bit more money for things like looong drillbits, wiring snake, possibly some conduit or junction boxes outside, maybe a gigabit router upgrade or second network card, and maybe some extra cash to throw in the swear jar trying to run the wires just right.

 

Given a two week timeframe and "nesting" energy, if it were me I'd get the Costco QSee system up and running outside first (priorities), and then add ACTi cams inside as time permits. You'll probably want one in the baby's room first (awesome to have good video with the baby monitor), then add more cams when you can. You might want a D54 (1mp with IR) in the baby's room. The D51/E51 cams don't have IR so you'll have to leave white lights on at night.

 

You crappy modem won't hurt recording or viewing your system from inside, just when trying to access it when you're not home.

 

For another option, if you think that 8 cams might be enough, the 8ch Swann system with 4 cams might be a better all around choice with 4 more cams added indoors if you don't mind bullets inside ($350 for two outdoor IR bullets), or even use their 4 cam system for outdoor duties because their 4mm lenses give a 75 degree field of view. Nice and wide for covering ground and still give good detail for anybody actually up close the house. Presumably other Hikvision cameras will work with the Swann NVR if you could find some domes for indoor duties but I haven't heard of anybody using other cameras with the Swann (rebranded Hikvision according to some posters on here) NVR yet.

 

Options options options...

[MaxIcon 0]

...I just discovered multiple IR LED failures on one of my Dahuas, which drops them a good bit on the quality ladder. ..

 

Max, I've been thinking, which is always a dangerous thing. Why not let something like this do the lighting and let the cameras do the camerating?

 

I've been running a couple of these units (2 bulbs each) with two 90-watt equivelent LED bulbs in each unit, and they light up the entire driveway and my large patio and they do it for pennies. They allow you to turn them off automatically at dawn and on at dusk...and they only fire when motion is detected. Then they stay on for a user defined period of time. And the motion detection is very, very, good.

 

I guess the downside is that the bulbs cost $40.00 EACH but they'll probably be $7.50 in a year.

 

What do you think?

 

Yeah, that's a better solution than IR in general, since the image quality is usually better. I've got motion detect lighting around a couple of other cams, but don't want it in the location where the Dahua is. I've got some external IR, as well, and may give that a try, or just try to scare up a replacement IR board for the Dahua.

[Q2U 0]

Whatever happened to Ms. ashaism n00b and her new surveillance system? So much energy was directed to her, but she turned out to be a one-post wonder. I wonder how she made out.

[mikelowrey 0]

Well, I will chime in for her since I am looking for something similar,

 

Every post above has been really helpful, but i was reading that the costco bundles are not reliable and are analog cameras. I also believe they came out with a brand name avertx i thing it is but people are saying not good.

 

So What I think I need:

- 16 cameras? LOL I do really like the 16 channel system, I was thinking on 3 cameras on each corner of the house (12) , 2 for the doors (2 doors total) and 2 for 2 door garages

- Quality on images has to be CLEAR and CRISP (IP)

- Password-protected remote access. (ability to see through iphone/ipad/android/pc/tv at home)

- Low lux

 

*** an optional thing would be able to add it to the alarm system?

 

 

I rather do this with a PC since PC's can be upgraded cheaply and hard drives are cheap to get also and I rather do IP cameras with PoE since is only 1 cable only to run. So my real question is: what are the real good brands out there, there is so many that I dont even know what to do, what are the ripoffs? etc... etc.. I rather you help me by giving me the 3 best and not giving me a list of 20 LOL

 

I am open to any suggestions... sorry for the amount of cameras I just like to be in control on everything that is happening in my property , Thank you.

[Kawboy12R 0]

The Swann and Lorex systems from Costco I was talking about earlier are IP systems with no apparent significant short term reliability issues. Two 8 channel NVRs will give 16 channels. If you want to use a computer as NVR, 16 ACTi cams will run on one computer using their free software just fine. Depending on budget, the sky's the limit on selection after that. Just beware that network bandwidth and software selection will be an issue, especially if you expect to run, say, 16 5mp cams with BlueIris off of a single 10/100 switch.

[SectorSecurity 0]

And when you cable it all be sure to go Cat6 don't go cheap and get 5e, CAT6 supports gigabit speeds

[tomcctv 190]

And when you cable it all be sure to go Cat6 don't go cheap and get 5e, CAT6 supports gigabit speeds

 

 

 

there is no problem with using cat5

 

CAT6 supports gigabit speeds

 

 

from IP camera to network point why do you need gigabyte

[SectorSecurity 0]

And when you cable it all be sure to go Cat6 don't go cheap and get 5e, CAT6 supports gigabit speeds

 

 

 

there is no problem with using cat5

 

CAT6 supports gigabit speeds

 

 

from IP camera to network point why do you need gigabyte

 

 

I guess you are correct, but on the backbone link between switch and NVR you are best to have gigabit lan and CAT6.

[mikelowrey 0]

Just beware that network bandwidth

 

If I have the 25/15 internet plan (which I think I have) is that good enough or need to bump it?

 

I will be looking at acti cameras

[Kawboy12R 0]

Well, when I mentioned network bandwidth I was thinking more along the lines of INTERNAL (LAN) network bandwidth, not internet bandwidth. Depending on the megapixels and quality settings, 16 network cams can bring a 10/100 switch to its knees.

[MR2 0]

We've been using Geovision and just recently IPQ2322x (or something like that) which are $210 each for 3mp, they've been good, we've not had a single failure from any of those two sets of camera's yet...

 

on the topic of IR I suggest going external being switched, for the software I love the PC stuff and running Milestone is my favorite so far, just running on an i5 PC...

 

keep in mind when you get to a certain amount of camera's you need a GOOD storage device, which I consider to be a combo of a good raid card and good drives (7200rpm pref)