Upgrading to IP -Clarification Sought

[SB_Jim 1]

Hello,

 

First post here & I have really enjoyed learning so much on this forum. I've had a couple of DVR's, and am trying to become familiar w/ all things IP & NVR. But, I do have some questions that I KNOW the experts here can easily answer as I search for a new home NVR & IP cams.

 

Don’t most NVR’s allow the use of IP cameras from various mfr’s? I’d love to purchase an NVR and then pick & choose my own cameras – even if by several mfr’s. Should I be looking for an NVR and cameras that are “ONIVF™ compliant”? Is that the standard that guarantees interchangeability of various camera Mfr’s w/ different NVR’s?

 

I understand that my current analog 660 TVL cams w/ BNC terminations cannot be used with an NVR. But, are there two cable styes – in general, or three?

 

1) Analog w/ BNC, and SDI – also w/ BNC, and

2) PoE?

 

What does Serial Data Interface mean in comparison with my current non-SDI DVR?

Will there be a compromised image if I use an SDI camera w/ my existing BNC cables? My cables are all 50-60' in length with no extensions.

 

With an HD 1080P NVR and the ability to configure each camera for resolution & perhaps bandwidth(?), would I be able to set one or two cams to record 30 fps @ 1080P, and then set other cams to record at lower res, etc., in order to maximize the time before the HDD begins to overwrite?

 

With two cams installed in a location looking essentially past each other (opposite direction, 10-13 ft apart), the IR from each cam rather washes out some of the image. If my cameras were capable of masking, could I simply mask an area equal to the size of the opposing camera (since I presumably don’t want to watch my other camera), and minimize the source of glare? Anyone tried this?

 

I'm open to buying an HD system from Costo - if I will ultimately have some choice in adding cameras. It must be capable of recording at 30 fps in 1080P - although I wouldn't need that for each camera. Like some of you, I'd love to know more about the Swann 8CH 1080P. The cams are 2.1MP, and the IR rating seems reasonable at 115 ft. I owned a basic Swann DVR for 5-6 yrs, and had no trouble w/it at all. It is now at my brother's home, and has continued to operate fine, and the remote view is very stable.

 

I'm anxious to graduate from my 660 TVL cams to something in the order of 2MP - and some of the bullet cams sold w/ these "kits" are rated 2.1MP. I would also be interested in some of the other Chinese brand cams that seem to be popular among you experienced folks.

 

Thanks so much for your time & thoughtful replies!

 

Jim

[buellwinkle 0]

From what I understand, there's 3 types of cameras, analog, SDI and IP. You are already familiar with analog, not much I can say. It's easy because you can buy cameras from different brands, DVRs from different brands and it all works together. SDI is not like that, you buy an NVR and cameras from a single vendor but it uses coax in the same way an analog camera but offers higher resolution, 1080P is common. The advantage is you can re-use existing analog coax and it's more plug/play.

 

Network or IP cameras are totally different. Each camera is like a computer with a lens and you have to treat it that way, meaning you have to understand TCP/IP networking, switches, routers, and cameras are attached to a local area network, your PC is attached to the network, your NVR is attached to this network. You also have to understand network topography as putting 20 cameras, 5MP each on a 100Mbps TCP/IP network will not work. For home or small business users with 4-5 cameras, not much to worry about but you really have to know what you are doing if you have say 10-20 cameras or more.

 

Each camera model, even within a manufacturer may be different enough so an NVR or NVR software may or may not work with it. So it's not interchangeable between NVRs and cameras as analog is. For example, if you buy an NVR from say ACTi, you can't use it with cameras from Axis. They sell more generic NVR's like from Qnap, Nuuo, Synology, but you have to make sure that the cameras you buy are compatible down to the camera model. So they may say they support and Axis P3364 but you may have an Axis P3367 and it may or may not work.

[tomcctv 190]

SDI is not like that, you buy an NVR and cameras from a single vendor

 

 

SDI is like that as long as you have a SDI recorder you can use mix CNB .. dahua... everfocus

the onl difference is coax distance. it starts to get expensive buying extenders.

 

 

I understand that my current analog 660 TVL cams w/ BNC terminations cannot be used with an NVR

 

 

all you need to look for is a hybrid NVR then you can still use your existing cameras and cables.

[bigglebowski 0]

 

 

I understand that my current analog 660 TVL cams w/ BNC terminations cannot be used with an NVR

 

 

all you need to look for is a hybrid NVR then you can still use your existing cameras and cables.

 

Or you can buy an "encoder" that accepts analog input and outputs as IP. To use with an NVR it would have to be supported by the maker of the NVR or the software in a PC based NVR/VMS/CMS. This would be a case where you have a really high quality analog camera that is getting the job done and just isnt worth replacing. Encoders come in single input or even quad input or more.

[SB_Jim 1]

Thanks, All, for your kind replies. I definitely know more now than I did last evening. I would be okay w/ a hybrid NVR, and likely use 4 or so IP cams 1080P plus some better qual analog cams where the HD smack isn't really as necessary.

 

In a true hybrid, will most any analog / BNC camera work? And, if I understand one comment written to me, an SDI would not work w/ a hybrid NVR?

 

Thx again for all of the good tips. More are welcomed if you feel inspired!

 

Jim

[shockwave199 0]

Network or IP cameras are totally different. Each camera is like a computer with a lens and you have to treat it that way, meaning you have to understand TCP/IP networking, switches, routers, and cameras are attached to a local area network, your PC is attached to the network, your NVR is attached to this network.

This is why many who are considering an IP system shy away, and why hardware NVR's with built in POE are going to remain popular even with some limitations. Going IP can be much more like analog. You choose a manufacturers hardware NVR that has full built in POE, you plug in the cameras from that same manufacturer right into the built in POE, turn on the NVR, and there's your great pictures. Then just like an analog dvr, you plug it into your router for local and remote viewing with one network cable from the NVR to your router. The attractive part of it is that the built in POE powers your cameras too, so there's no additional powering concerns. And also, there's no daunting networking to do- you don't have to concern yourself with readdressing each camera, balancing bandwidth, external POE switches, software, and a computer. A hardware NVR with full POE and packaged cameras that work with it is as plug & play as you're gonna get.

 

There are some limitations with that choice at the moment. Not every NVR has full POE. Dahua has only four at this time. If all you need is a four camera system, you're all set. If you need more cameras, you'll be forced to get a separate POE switch and deal with the above, somewhat complicated scenario to get the extra cameras into your system. Again, this is why full POE built in will become king for the plug & play crowd. Some other manufactures are offering full built in POE. Nice, but there's still a catch- you have to use their cameras. It's become popular for them to offer just two types of cameras- an IR bullet and a non IR mini dome. 2MP in these two offerings seems to becoming more standard that just 1.3MP cameras, which is good. They need to add three more types to the lineup- IR sensitive cameras so you don't have to deal with the problems of built in IR, a less expensive ptz in the 12x range, and a reasonably priced varifocals. I'm sure as time goes on they'll add more camera choices to offset the limitations of using only their cameras. And I think that will be more likely the answer in the short term than relying on ONIF to cure the mix and match problem of hardware NVR solutions. Personally, that would be fine with me. I don't need to consider every camera under the sun. Anything more than the proprietary cameras is gonna be a hell of a lot more expensive anyway. A nice selection of good quality proprietary cameras would be fine for those who choose this solution. The other limitation of a hardware NVR with built in POE is not being able to access the cameras own web interface, where you have all the settings to tweak the camera picture itself, as well as many other settings. But consider that most analog users buy a camera with auto settings, install it, tweak the picture by channel in the dvr and there you have it. This is the same concept- you install the MP camera and rely on it's default settings being fine, and tweak the picture a bit per channel in the NVR. Same concept, only you're sure to have a much better resolution camera as a starting point.

 

Unless you seriously need to integrate your analog cameras because of specific FOV setups, I'd consider just ending them. The chances of you hooking up MP cameras and ever liking your analog cameras compared is slim to none, in terms of resolution.

 

It can be as simple as plug and play, but with some limitations. That, and be prepared to spend more. The cameras alone are more expensive. Good luck.

[buellwinkle 0]

For what it's worth, the Hikvision (Costco Swann package), their NVR's have PoE ports to match the NVR channels. So the 8 channel Hikvision NVR has 8 PoE ports. The 16 channel, when it's available will have 16 PoE ports. I agree, this is the easiest way to go, plug and play for someone that is not hardcore as many of us are and is used to analog. Don't know what Dahua was thinking when they make a 16 channel NVR with 4 PoE ports.

[tomcctv 190]

In a true hybrid, will most any analog / BNC camera work? And, if I understand one comment written to me

 

 

yes with a hybrid all types of analog BNC will work.

 

SDI would not work w/ a hybrid NVR?

 

 

you can get SDI hybrids that will also run your analog.

 

 

hybrid NVR = analog (bnc) and IP mp network cameras

 

hybrid SDI = analog (bnc) and SDI cameras

 

TRIbrid = analog (bnc) and SDI cameras and network cameras

[SB_Jim 1]

You guys Rock! You really delivered the goods today, and I thank you for that. I've learned lots of valuable info as I consider my options. In a perfect world, Swann would offer more than their 2.1MP bullets - but that's probably not happening soon.

 

For my needs, the bullets they offer will work perfectly well for the 4 areas that are my primary "watch zones". The IR will be plenty sufficient since I have a good amount of ambient lighting around my home. The primary reason I was considering passing on the Swann was due to the inability to mix & match other IP cameras. But, I think I now know that this scenario seems to be a bit common among several other IP NVR players - with the exception of the hybrid systems.

 

You're right, I ought to have my socks knocked off by the improvement of a 2.1 MP IP cam vs my existing 660 TVL analogs. And, I also agree w/ another point made that I should just ditch my analog cams and go with the IP - up to 8 with direct PoE to the NVR. The hybrids are convenient, but for my general needs, why not invest just a bit more in a couple more cams ($349 / pr), and enjoy the "goodness".

 

I'm getting closer to placing an order w/ Costco online for the Swann 8 CH 1080 NVR - and may order two more (pricey) cams to round out most of what I want to monitor. With the improved resolution, it may allow me to use one less camera to monitor an area where I'm currently using two. Testing would tell. Sale ends on the 14th, and I like the extra 2 yrs of warranty + consierge service.

 

Thanks again for the time & thoughtfulness of your replies. You really came thru in a great way!

 

Jim

[shockwave199 0]

Well good luck Jim! Keep in mind that for all the talk, there hasn't been many [any?] endorsements for the swann IP system yet. You're heading into uncharted territory. Be prepared to be called on to supply sample photos and backup vids, as well as answer some questions about the nvr itself. There's also q-see to consider, and another unknown avertx. Not sure if Lorex has an nvr package yet. All of these brands were mostly looked down on as inferior in the analog market. Will their nvr offerings step up the game and change some opinions? Will their quality be consistent and reliable, and will customer service be solid? You'll be one of the early adopters, so let us know. I'll be installing a dahua 4 channel POE nvr with their 2mp mini domes for someone shortly. You can bet I'll be posting a lot of samples from that system too. Anyway, good luck!

[flynreelow 0]

Well good luck Jim! Keep in mind that for all the talk, there hasn't been many [any?] endorsements for the swann IP system yet. You're heading into uncharted territory. Be prepared to be called on to supply sample photos and backup vids, as well as answer some questions about the nvr itself. There's also q-see to consider, and another unknown avertx. Not sure if Lorex has an nvr package yet. All of these brands were mostly looked down on as inferior in the analog market. Will their nvr offerings step up the game and change some opinions? Will their quality be consistent and reliable, and will customer service be solid? You'll be one of the early adopters, so let us know. I'll be installing a dahua 4 channel POE nvr with their 2mp mini domes for someone shortly. You can bet I'll be posting a lot of samples from that system too. Anyway, good luck!

 

 

Pics and Video already online...

 

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[buellwinkle 0]

I put them on YouTube to make them easier to view.

 

[blake 0]

For what it's worth, the Hikvision (Costco Swann package), their NVR's have PoE ports to match the NVR channels. So the 8 channel Hikvision NVR has 8 PoE ports. The 16 channel, when it's available will have 16 PoE ports. I agree, this is the easiest way to go, plug and play for someone that is not hardcore as many of us are and is used to analog. Don't know what Dahua was thinking when they make a 16 channel NVR with 4 PoE ports.

I thought that was weird also that you would design a poe dvr in 4,8 and 16 channels but only have 4 ports be poe!