Is IP camera technology slowly progressing?

[bass1176 0]

Ill wait around until they do become cheaper, produce good low light images, with a fairly smooth picture. Or for sure try one of the Dahuas which by the previous post produced a great pic for $130, whether or not its better at low light, well same goes for the $800 ACTi 4mp camera.

In terms of low light, you're waiting around for something that will never happen. No camera, be it megapixel or analog, produces really useable images in low light. Those that do either fake it or depend on IR in the camera- neither option being preferable. Want a good, useable image from a camera in low light? Provide light so it isn't low light. Help a camera help you. You wanna debate brand quality, fine. But using 'low light' capability as any sort of measuring stick isn't realistic in the real dark world. If it could be done, we'd be pointing every camera we own and taking shots with limited light and not caring. It just doesn't work that way.

 

Hey understandable, wasnt easy to accomplish with analogs and probably wont change with IPs but I wont be paying the $800 for such camera.

[ssmith10pn 0]

A 16mp Nikon D7000 will only do 24fps @ 1920 x 1080.

 

Just sayin.

 

That's a 900.00 camera body + Lens

[vector18 1]

Alittle better light today, but 130 bucks!!! " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" />

 

[Voipmodo 0]

$130 cameras will be great for companies like Amazon, but you will not see many companies who can provide support stay in business at those price points. Normally profit for the higher end cameras is 15-25%, which in my opinion is a fair margin. On lower end you are lucky if a dealer can make $5-10 on a camera. Then those same customers want support as the MFG does not provide it as their margins are so low.

 

Lower prices are not always a good thing. If you were a contractor and you made $500 profit/ income building someone a house, would you still do it?

[bigglebowski 0]

$130 cameras will be great for companies like Amazon, but you will not see many companies who can provide support stay in business at those price points. Normally profit for the higher end cameras is 15-25%, which in my opinion is a fair margin. On lower end you are lucky if a dealer can make $5-10 on a camera. Then those same customers want support as the MFG does not provide it as their margins are so low.

 

Lower prices are not always a good thing. If you were a contractor and you made $500 profit/ income building someone a house, would you still do it?

 

This, this and this.

 

It seems like just asking for email support once or twice would make these cameras not worth selling for a reseller. And if you had to send a call tag and pay for return postage you would be out all the money you made on the sale and then you still have to support the replacement.

 

Also lets not compare the $130 indoor camera to outdoor cameras that are also designed to tackle all lighting variations. Not to mention other attributes that an indoor dome wouldnt have.

[ssmith10pn 0]

I good vandal resistant, WDR, indoor Analog camera is 300 bucks.

[MaxIcon 0]

Really, this is pretty clear.

 

Cheap Chinese cameras can be fine for the money, but you definitely get less than with many more expensive cameras.

 

The Dahua is a perfect example. The HFW2100 and HFW3300C are great cameras for the price, but the software isn't very polished, the day/night switching is unreliable and unadjustable, the IR can't be disabled in the controls, the sharpening algorithm is awful when there are both bright lights and shadows (the shadows lose all detail and turn to total fuzz), there's no factory technical support and vendor technical support is limited, the WDR is barely usable, they brick during software updates way too easily, and so on.

 

Buy a more expensive camera from a good brand, and you get better support, more mature software, better construction, and so on. Is this worth it? It is to some people, and isn't to others. This is why you can buy Hyundai and BMW - each has its market segment.

 

Sure, price isn't a good guide - some expensive cameras are junk, and you have to do your research on them - but (for example) the firmware on my Vivotek IP8332s is much better than on the HFW2100.

 

The Dahuas and other inexpensive Chinese cams are fine for the money - I have several Dahuas - but low cost has its trade-offs, as always.

[ChrisL 0]

Maybe my logic is all wrong - what is the benefit of a $130 Camera that is sold at Cosco?

 

If you mark it up 30% you are 30% higher than what your customer can go buy it for.

If you mark it up 30% you are only making $33 per camera.

If you have to replace it you have lost your profit on the camera.

 

Where prices "Should" be is very different from where integrators want pricing to be....

 

If you are a DYI'er and installing this in your house / business - great.

If you are trying to make a living off of video and you are selling $100 cameras, you won't be around long.

[Firefighter 0]

This brings up another question.

 

For someone like me wanting to own my own CCTV install bussiness one day,

is the market going to do what camras did to Photographers?

I use to have a Photography business, But with Cheaper better cameras flooding the market anyone and everyone is a photographer.

I stopped shooting weddings last year and it blew my mind when on multiple occasions I knew of people

doing wedding photography with cell phones, Much less a new person buying one from the store and suddenly their a "professional"

 

The proccess in TN is 5yrs to start a cctv/alarm business. No less than 5yrs will I be alowed to start my own bussiness.

Will the cctv market be like the "still camera" market? Will there be a market for someone like me who wants to sell/Install cctv?

 

I'm interested because I really enjoy cctv and all of its aspects. I'm kind of a techy nerd so its "fun" too...

I just makes me wonder.... Will I be able to provide my family....

[bigglebowski 0]

This brings up another question.

 

For someone like me wanting to own my own CCTV install bussiness one day,

is the market going to do what camras did to Photographers?

I use to have a Photography business, But with Cheaper better cameras flooding the market anyone and everyone is a photographer.

I stopped shooting weddings last year and it blew my mind when on multiple occasions I knew of people

doing wedding photography with cell phones, Much less a new person buying one from the store and suddenly their a "professional"

 

The proccess in TN is 5yrs to start a cctv/alarm business. No less than 5yrs will I be alowed to start my own bussiness.

Will the cctv market be like the "still camera" market? Will there be a market for someone like me who wants to sell/Install cctv?

 

I'm interested because I really enjoy cctv and all of its aspects. I'm kind of a techy nerd so its "fun" too...

I just makes me wonder.... Will I be able to provide my family....

 

The same brands that are selling at Costco (Swann and Lorex etc) have been around for years, at similar price points relative to the better security brands. For well over a decade you could get Chinese gear online that is so cheap they dont even bother with having a brand name. To your analogy with amateur photographer, if your potential client thinks that his buddy will suffice, either you can consult on why your service would be better or you move on to the next opportunity.

[blakem 0]

This brings up another question.

 

For someone like me wanting to own my own CCTV install bussiness one day,

is the market going to do what camras did to Photographers?

I use to have a Photography business, But with Cheaper better cameras flooding the market anyone and everyone is a photographer.

I stopped shooting weddings last year and it blew my mind when on multiple occasions I knew of people

doing wedding photography with cell phones, Much less a new person buying one from the store and suddenly their a "professional"

 

The proccess in TN is 5yrs to start a cctv/alarm business. No less than 5yrs will I be alowed to start my own bussiness.

Will the cctv market be like the "still camera" market? Will there be a market for someone like me who wants to sell/Install cctv?

 

I'm interested because I really enjoy cctv and all of its aspects. I'm kind of a techy nerd so its "fun" too...

I just makes me wonder.... Will I be able to provide my family....

 

I know what you mean about everyone is a photographer with inexpensive DLSRs these days, but I always thought that for weddings especially a professional photographer is there to provide you with the skills and experience needed to capture those one time "in the moment" shots. A camera is only a tool, but the photographer uses it with his or her skills to capture moments in time to tell a story.

[GMaster1 0]

This is all personal experience, but as someone who did professional photography as a side hobby, I used to have a pretty well defined list of reasons why the whole DSLR market never impacted my business. It all kinda boiled down to "If they want to pay 300USD for a full day of photography, let them. Not my business to try and convince them that I am worth several thousand dollars more and that they are making a possible mistake. That wastes time. Ironically, the pickier I got and more expensive I raised my prices (minimum $4,500/day) the more emails I received.

 

Same with IT (and I'm assuming CCTV). I'm only 26 but found selling myself for over my competition made me more desirable to some. Now... you have to have the skills and sales experience to back it up and your stress levels intrinsically rise based on the liability and tasks you're sometimes given, but this whole "give in to the cheaper labor" will never fly with me. There's always a market for those who want quality.

 

I guess at the very least just be confident in what you're selling/offering. Give them a solid reason to pay more and they will.

 

--- Back to that wedding thing.. I attended a friend's wedding last year that had a $3k photog with a 5D and saw her work online a few days later. The image to the left is what she took for their dance. The image to the right is what I took using a 350D, 50 1.8, and bar napkin to diffuse light.

 

[dexterash 0]

Nice point!

 

I'm not sure we can compare a wedding(or some other important event in someone's life) with security, but you are right: people have to know how to sell (via quality, support, customer service etc).

 

Of course, products can be(and are) cheap, but using them in the right way is not anyone's job.

 

In the same way people complain about "not being supported by the manufacturer" (in a general case, DAHUA), has anyone been told/teached by Canon or Nikon how to photograph? In a "professional" way? Or how to chose lens, flashes and other accessories? My bet is on "not". At least, not on a "how to guide".

[GMaster1 0]

Right -- With CCTV or IT or whatever you do, why sell or work with something you're not confident with? Doesn't really depend on whether or not the product has support or the level of build quality, yada yada. That's up to you, the one providing the service.

 

Some of my competitors love HP servers while I prefer Dell -- Simply because I'm comfortable with the hardware. I'm not going to quote out hardware beyond my abilities/knowledge because, at the end of the day, I'm the one that has the responsibility to drive my butt out at 3AM to fix stuff in very critical situations. Gotta go with what you're comfortable/confident with

[Firefighter 0]

Oh I understand, However my market and area is pretty low as far as median income.

With my area having a Median Household income of around 29k... You can see why more people go for the cheaper.

For me, It was a Side bussiness just like yourself as I'm a ft firefighter.

But, it was just a point I thought worth bringing up.

[dexterash 0]

If it was a sidebusiness, you shouldn't be mad.

 

On the other side, security should be a VERY serious business (you should know something about, since it's your main job,somehow).

 

People buy security cameras for their own security(DUH). Then, they start to play&poke around with them (as with some nice toys). What happens if, during the "playwork', the cameras are needed to record some event? Instead of protecting a XYZT$ house, they end with an 150$ object that SHOULD HAVE DONE something, but it didn't do anything. And this, in a one-in-a-lifetime shot. Just like a wedding.

So...whom do you blame?

[vector18 1]

[dexterash 0]

Oh, please... I can provide a higher resolution pic... that just looks like a low-bitrate recording! But I don't have one wearing the red-wearable-thingy! Please do excuse! Just not my taste...

[GMaster1 0]

I have some pixels for you Dexter

 

http://findlaydonnan.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/csi-the-e2809czoom-and-enhancee2809d-cliche-compilation-movie-montage.jpg

[Firefighter 0]

I'm not mad.

 

It's state law I would have to work for another Licensed Security Company for a minimum of 5 years before

being allowed to file an application with the state to become a cctv installer or anything like that. So I wouldn't

be new to the business after 5yrs of experience. Its good, keeps overnight companies from starting up.

 

Continue, didn't mean to drag it off topic.

[dexterash 0]

You didn't drag it offtopic, actually it's (very) on topic.

Some will always want and go for cheap. The question is: are their valuables cheap enough to be protected by cheap? And not cheap as in product, but cheap as in less-reliable solution(the eternal problem of reliability).

 

Even if the products that compose a security solution are cheap, that doesn't mean the solution is cheap (heck, a mechanic's tools can be cheap too, but can anyone service a car? And would anyone rely on their work?)

 

Getting back to OP's idea, how many would understand that the products are cheap, but the solution "linking" the products isn't cheap, since it requires knowledge in the field, (at least!) some IT experience (and, preferably, general IT security experience)... Manufacturers will try to stop you doing some mistakes when implementing their products, but that comes with some costs...

[Brayce 0]

I think with the change in the technology and increasing the function in the Ip cameras people are more likely to buy that because they are cheap and you don't have to pay more money for monitoring your security.