3MP Hikvision vs. 1080P Swann/Lorex

[buellwinkle 0]

For those that loaded Hikvision firmware on their Swann/Lorex 1080P IR Bullet camera to take advantage of free 3MP resolution can rest easy knowing that there's no difference between the cameras that I can discern. I did the same test of overlaying the image from 1080P over a 3MP image and it's the same for a real Hikvision 3MP bullet vs. the Swann 1080P bullet.

 

When it goes from 3MP to 1080P, most cameras do a crop but on Hikvision cameras, it appears to do a combination of resizing the image and cropping top and bottom from 4:3 to 16:9 aspect ratio. It actually shows a more wider image, which means when it goes from 1080 to 3MP, it us cropping a little from the sides to make the transition to the 4:3 aspect ratio.

 

[spadjen 0]

nice. now i wonder if this will hold true with the lorex dome.

[zikronix 0]

So are you saying that there is no difference between the swann/lorex 2.1 MP and the Hik 3mp. and the 2.1 is truly capable of 3MP? this seems to be in direct contrast to what maxicon found and what swann says. Officially swan says the sensor is not the same as the 3MP version?

[Q2U 0]

That looks like bad blotter.

[buellwinkle 0]

Just saying from having access to both and assuming you load the Hikvision firmware on the Swann, they look and function identically. Without taking them apart which I can't as they are not mine, I can't tell if there are any difference in the guts.

[zikronix 0]

well that's interesting...

 

Ive also started to expierment with their iVMS PCNVR app. It gives full control of all the camera settings., and I find that interesting, especially since its free. Im going to set it up with 4 cams and check the load.

 

Is their more pixels or just a resize. Additionally if you kick it back down to 1080 does it keep the pixel density of the 3mp @ 2mp res? Maybe I should go back and read maxicons post

[Q2U 0]

What is also interesting is that after flashing the Swann\Lorex with the Hikvision 4.x or 5.x firmware (which makes the additional 2048x1536 resolution become available) the 2048x1536 resolution will only run at 15FPS (as oposed to the 1920x1080 which will run at 30FPS).

[zikronix 0]

What is also interesting is that after flashing the Swann\Lorex with the Hikvision 4.x or 5.x firmware (which makes the additional 2048x1536 resolution become available) the 2048x1536 resolution will only run at 15FPS (as oposed to the 1920x1080 which will run at 30FPS).

 

 

That matches the specs for their 3MP camera and most other #MP cameras ive seen

[JoeyJoey 0]

Where can we get the firmware for the Hikvision camera?

 

Where can we get the firmware for the Lorex camera?

 

In case we have to revert back, thanks.

[zikronix 0]

hikvision is on their ftp. you cant get the others that im aware of...you might be nice and try calling support...you have better chances with swann vs lorex. some one might beaable to take a apart a cam and do an eeprom dump...i have the equipment to do that. Im not going to sacrafice a cam for that.

[MaxIcon 0]

So, it appears that both act the same, as Buellwinkle found, which indicates that the Hik 3MP mode is actually a scaled (interpolated) output from the sensor. The pics of the sensor make it appear to be a 16:9 sensor, while a typical 3MP sensor is a 4:3 sensor, and the 1080P uses the full width with fewer vertical pixels. This is how the Dahua 3MP appears to work.

 

Unfortunately, it's very hard to say for sure what's going on internally, but it's pretty clear from Buellwinkle's image that it's not a true 3MP, since the 3MP spec has more horizontal pixels than the 1080P, while this image has fewer.

 

An estimate of the Swann's image showed it to be about 2.3MP equivalent in the 3MP image, assuming the 1080p image is true 1080p. It looks like the Hik 3MP cam has the exact same image proportions, but I haven't checked them closely.

[buellwinkle 0]

Up against other 3MP cameras I have from Dahua and ACTi, I would say the pixilation point is the same. It could be the sensor, which may indeed be shaped in the HDTV aspect ratio may be over sized to accommodate both formats.

 

I'll be getting the dome version from Hikvision in a few days. Can you send me where you got the charts you used for your testing. I can then take the 3 different 3MP cameras and you can see them side by side. I guessing if I have the file with the test pattern, I can send it to Staples to print in on larger format paper.

 

Also getting in the ACTi 3MP IR domes as some have asked to compare the domes to the E32 I tested.

[zikronix 0]

So, it appears that both act the same, as Buellwinkle found, which indicates that the Hik 3MP mode is actually a scaled (interpolated) output from the sensor. The pics of the sensor make it appear to be a 16:9 sensor, while a typical 3MP sensor is a 4:3 sensor, and the 1080P uses the full width with fewer vertical pixels. This is how the Dahua 3MP appears to work.

 

Unfortunately, it's very hard to say for sure what's going on internally, but it's pretty clear from Buellwinkle's image that it's not a true 3MP, since the 3MP spec has more horizontal pixels than the 1080P, while this image has fewer.

 

An estimate of the Swann's image showed it to be about 2.3MP equivalent in the 3MP image, assuming the 1080p image is true 1080p. It looks like the Hik 3MP cam has the exact same image proportions, but I haven't checked them closely.

 

 

So what does this all mean in the end? From the sounds of what im reading it sounds like the "official hikvision 3mp" maybe using a 16x9 sensor and when in 3MP mode, doesnt actually deliver 3MP. And that the possiblity of the swann cameras and the offical 3MP being the same is "highly likely"

 

So back to that question...is their any real world benefit to the flashing of the firmware, or would it do more harm than good.

 

I was thinking of maybe getting the acti cameras instead....im not sure that would be worth the cost difference, its soundling like these hik cameras are the best "bang for the buck" in the low to medium budget home application.

 

What dome will you be getting. Is it the equillivent of the lorex dome?

[buellwinkle 0]

The E74 3MP fixed lens with WDR, D82 3MP varifocal lens, no WDR and E84, low light 1080P with WDR and varifocal lens, that should cover the a good portion of their domes in varying price ranges. The least expensive 3MP, the D72 should be like the D82 but with a fixed lens. The E84 will be the most expensive. So the price range is from the mid 200's to about the 600's.

 

I believe all their domes now have a microSD card slot where the bullets do not seem to.

[zikronix 0]

The E74 3MP fixed lens with WDR, D82 3MP varifocal lens, no WDR and E84, low light 1080P with WDR and varifocal lens, that should cover the a good portion of their domes in varying price ranges. The least expensive 3MP, the D72 should be like the D82 but with a fixed lens. The E84 will be the most expensive. So the price range is from the mid 200's to about the 600's.

 

I believe all their domes now have a microSD card slot where the bullets do not seem to.

 

 

cool the e74 is what i was thinking about. im curious if it will be really that much better than these hik bullets and domes. very interested in its WDR and and ir / low light performance.

[No5 0]

cool the e74 is what i was thinking about. im curious if it will be really that much better than these hik bullets and domes. very interested in its WDR and and ir / low light performance.

 

Me too. Can't wait to see what the review finds on the said ACTi domes.

[zikronix 0]

cool the e74 is what i was thinking about. im curious if it will be really that much better than these hik bullets and domes. very interested in its WDR and and ir / low light performance.

 

Me too. Can't wait to see what the review finds on the said ACTi domes.

 

 

I may replace my swann with these. so we will have to see. I would also like to see what they come with and if they can be mounted with out the mounting ring. I am not overly excited about cutting holes in my stucco that are quite sizable!

[MaxIcon 0]

I'm working up an analysis of the sensor, and am just about done. I'll post the results, but assuming the 1080p image is true 1080p, the 3MP definitely not true 3MP. This is the case for both the Swann and the Hik, which appear to be the same camera in every detail except minor data in the non-volatile RAM.

 

There's no obvious downside to flashing the Hik firmware, as far as I can tell, and the bugs I thought I saw aren't really there - see a later post in this thread. I never trust X.Y.0 firmware. The upside is that you get the extra 4:3 mode, which is slightly higher resolution than the 1080p, but the real question is which aspect ratio works better for you. There are a few other minor improvements, but nothing major.

 

The 2 images I use for most testing are the Siemens star and the ISO-12233 chart. If you want to use either one very far from the camera, a bigger print works well, especially with the ISO chart.

 

The Siemens star is great for focusing and comparisons, while the ISO chart is good for actual measurements, since you can determine a number where the resolution goes blurry. The problem is that most cameras need it to be really close, which may not be the focus area you need.

 

One useful trick with the ISO chart is to pick one of the numbered resolution sections and just print that on a piece of paper, then tape it to cardboard. This way, you can get actual measurements - at 10', camera A has 550 lines resolution, while camera B has 600, for example.

 

The latest Acrobat viewer will print poster-style, where you can print on multiple pages and mount them on a larger sheet, or you can do this manually, but it's easier to get a big print at the print shop.

 

Here's a huge, clean, scalable Siemens star in .png format:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Siemens_star.svg/2000px-Siemens_star.svg.png

 

and an excellent free ISO12233 chart in PDF:

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~westin/misc/ISO_12233-reschart.pdf

Edited May 29, 2013 by Guest

[buellwinkle 0]

Don't have a large scale printer but I sent the ISO one to Costco for a 20x30 print. I tried staples but couldn't figure it out, kept showing me a tiny pattern on a large piece of paper. Maybe if I walk the file to them, they can do it.

[zikronix 0]

Don't have a large scale printer but I sent the ISO one to Costco for a 20x30 print. I tried staples but couldn't figure it out, kept showing me a tiny pattern on a large piece of paper. Maybe if I walk the file to them, they can do it.

 

 

Are you going to do the lorex domes as well?

[buellwinkle 0]

Aren't they same as the Hikvision domes?

[zikronix 0]

One could assume that. I have some on order so once they get here ill let you know

[MR2 0]

Sounds like another of these: http://www.securitycamera2000.com/products/Full-HD-1080P-IP-Camera-3-Mega-Day%7B47%7Dnight-IR-40m-Waterproof-2.8mm%252d12mm.html

[buellwinkle 0]

I got the 3MP Hikvision DS-2CD2132-I Dome in my hands. Using an ISO 12233 resolution chart I took two snapshots one at 1080P and one at 3MP and then took a crop of the same area of the chart. Since this is a 2.8mm lens, I had to be pretty close, maybe 3' away from the chart but focus remained sharp. Also, I make no claims that this camera is identical to the Lorex domes at Costco, so don't blame me if you can't flash the Lorex to be like the Hikvision branded camera or that it's not exactly the same. This camera came directly from Hikvision in Los Angeles.

 

3MP mode

 

1080P (2MP) mode

 

There's considerably more pixels in 3MP mode than 2MP but that part is expected and does not relate to true resolution. But given that, is the pixilation the same, if so, then 3MP is truly 3MP relative to 2MP (1080P). Look at the converging line, for example the upper right where you can clearly see that the effective resolution in 3MP mode is far superior to the camera in 2MP mode.

 

The notion that this is really a 2MP (1080P) camera that has been extrapolated to 3MP is ridiculous. The effective resolution in 3MP is significantly higher than in 2MP mode. Also, for what it's worth, contrary this camera is full 30 FPS in both 3MP and 1080P mode.

 

I also took as snapshot of the same area with the ACTi E32, a 3MP bullet and I don't see any resolution difference between 3MP on either camera which further convinces me that these are true 3MP cameras. If anything, the Hikvision is higher resolution but I just unboxed these cameras, didn't have time to tweak any of the settings.

 

 

BTW, so far this is really a cool camera, with SD card slot and NVR type functionality with timelines and such in the camera. Stay tuned for the full review. Also, the camera came with camera finding software that worked very well, took the 192.0.0.64 to my network in a few seconds. For those that don't have it, let me know and I'll put it in my Dropbox for you.

[blake 0]

Sounds like this camera is going to be a winner,hopefully!! I would much rather support a company whom is here in the U.S. I still can't find any place other than ebay online to purchase these.