camera placement advice

[tome9999 0]

I am looking for thoughts and advice on mounting a camera to cover the front door of a house. It is a slightly unique situation and I have several options and decisions to make but not sure what would be best.

 

The house is a single story ranch with no attic and long roof overhangs (about 3 ft). The overhangs are represented by the light gray in the (not to scale) drawing. It has solid decking and insulated panels on the roof so there is no access from above at all. The first floor of the house is raised about 4 feet above ground level. So when you walk up to it, the soffits are 12 feet or so in the air. But when you climb the steps to the front door (which is in the connecting area between the two rectangles in the drawing) you are at normal floor height. You could easily reach up and touch the front edge of the roof overhang (about 90" high at the front edge, 102" on the back edge at the wall). There are three 50W equiv lights in the courtyard that are triggered by motion sensor and provide quite a bit of light at night. There are also driveway lights that could be triggered as well. It is 29 ft from the front door to the front wall of the right rectangle and 44 ft from the front door to the front wall of the left rectangle. It is then probably another 80-100 ft to the street.

 

I want the camera to be able to see anyone walking into the courtyard and also see down the driveway as much as it can (day and night). I would also like it to see the front door, but don't know if that will be possible given that the priority would be to see down the driveway and I only have so much FOV. I am currently thinking of using an Axis p3367-ve. It claims to have an 84 degree FOV. It will be set up to write to a SD card in the camera, as well as writing to a NAS on the network.

 

Ideally, the camera would be mounted under the soffit on the front porch back in the upper left corner of the drawing. I would put it far enough back in the overhang to only just see under the edge of the roof and out. I want it high up in order to be out of view from inside as the whole front of the connecting area is glass on either side of the front door. The other place would be over top of and to the left of the front door. The problem there is that it will be kind of in your face when you come to the door.

 

It seems to me the big issues are:

1) Someone could easily reach the camera

2) To wire it I need to go down the wall, under the porch decking and into the rim joist (which comes out in the basement).

 

The house is in a good neighborhood as it goes, but is somewhat rural. There have been a couple break-ins randomly in the area. I don't really anticipate someone vandalizing the camera, and after all, if they are whacking your camera you have video of them doing it! This model is vandal resistant so I would hope if that happened I would at least have some video of them before it was turned off. The second issue is the wiring. I was thinking of cutting the siding back a couple inches from the corner, and running a trim board in place of it, from the roof down to the floor of the front porch. I would dado out the back and have the wire run down the back of that board.

 

In the future a camera may be added on the top corner of the right hand rectangle looking down the driveway as well in order to see the garage doors (and anyone who would pull around to that side).

 

So, does this seem like a reasonable plan? Should I be thinking about anything else, or considering something different in terms of camera placement?

[Kawboy12R 0]

For a one-cam solution, I think you've picked a good spot to catch the majority of traffic walking into your home. 12' is awfully high to be looking down on someone close to the front door, so it'll have to be aimed out more into the driveway to get a shallower face shot. That also argues against the widest-angle setting (misses things right by the front door). So, to me, just above the door beats 12' by a long shot to catch faces, plus will probably allow you to use more zoom for detail farther out into the courtyard without necessarily creating a huge blind spot for those approaching the front door (hard to tell precisely when not to scale and no width specified).

 

I hate to argue against Axis (love mine), but if the budget is ~$1300 or so for one camera, I think you'd get much better protection from more cheaper cams than one P3367. Like, what about your back door? Prime target for break-ins. Folks approaching the garage door from that side of the house? Thieves love garage doors. I had someone try to pry one open from several angles at work. They left wedge marks under the door and near the horizontal sliding deadbolt trying to slide it open, as well as had the weatherstripping pried partly off and left the door out of center (but luckily still locked) when they gave up. Have you ever forgotten the garage door after working in the yard (or whenever) and left it open all night? Fun fun...

[tome9999 0]

For a one-cam solution, I think you've picked a good spot to catch the majority of traffic walking into your home. 12' is awfully high to be looking down on someone close to the front door, so it'll have to be aimed out more into the driveway to get a shallower face shot. That also argues against the widest-angle setting (misses things right by the front door). So, to me, just above the door beats 12' by a long shot to catch faces, plus will probably allow you to use more zoom for detail farther out into the courtyard without necessarily creating a huge blind spot for those approaching the front door (hard to tell precisely when not to scale and no width specified).

 

Kawboy, thanks for the response, I appreciate it. It isn't 12' up at the front door. If the camera is placed in that corner, or anywhere on the front porch area it will be less than 8' high to someone standing on the front porch. It would only be that high when they are walking into the courtyard - before climbing the stairs. The width is 18' (distance between two large rectangles).

 

I hate to argue against Axis (love mine), but if the budget is ~$1300 or so for one camera, I think you'd get much better protection from more cheaper cams than one P3367. Like, what about your back door? Prime target for break-ins. Folks approaching the garage door from that side of the house? Thieves love garage doors. I had someone try to pry one open from several angles at work. They left wedge marks under the door and near the horizontal sliding deadbolt trying to slide it open, as well as had the weatherstripping pried partly off and left the door out of center (but luckily still locked) when they gave up. Have you ever forgotten the garage door after working in the yard (or whenever) and left it open all night? Fun fun...

 

I am just getting started. This is really just a trial for this camera and seeing if I can get it in place in a neat and non-obtrusive way. I do want to put another camera on the garage doors as I mentioned, probably another p3367-ve if this works out. I will also need at least one more, and maybe two for full coverage in the end (and for those last 1-2, I intend to use less expensive cams). However, due to the way the house is situated on the property and in the neighborhood two cameras (front door and garage) will cover the vast majority of ways someone would approach the house. The garage door is on an automation system, it sends sms warnings in the evening and it never leaves the door up!

 

Again thanks,

Tom

[Kawboy12R 0]

Nice feature for the garage door. I forgot mine once and then got a beeper that worked great except when my wife was home. The beeper drove her nuts if the door was left open so then I settled for a flashing LED in the bedroom to remind me when we went to bed. I haven't gotten into the whole "smart home" scene yet.

[tome9999 0]

Nice feature for the garage door. I forgot mine once and then got a beeper that worked great except when my wife was home. The beeper drove her nuts if the door was left open so then I settled for a flashing LED in the bedroom to remind me when we went to bed. I haven't gotten into the whole "smart home" scene yet.

 

Home automation is great. I would advise anyone doing it though not to get carried away unless they want to make it a full time hobby. I have a nice controller (ISY994 from Universal Devices) that is great, and UD's support is great. I have only about a dozen devices on the system in key areas to make things convenient. Garage door was one of the first!

 

By the way, back to my topic, do video security pros generally view it as bad practice to put a camera at a door where is it reachable in residential installations? And if so, how do they solve the problem? I could put it out of reach but would be looking back at the door (and presumably the back of the head of the person standing there). That means I would need another camera to look down the driveway, but it could be done....

[Kawboy12R 0]

I can't speak to the pros (I'm just a DIYer) but in the majority of residential situations around here it is impossible to mount a camera out of reasonably easy reach. I'm 6' and even mounted on the soffit above a single storey front door I have no problem reaching a camera without help. IMHO, a camera loses much of its effectiveness for facial ID when mounted 15' or more up (out of range of someone with a broom). Heck, many cams have an effective ID range of 15' line of sight so why lose much of that just to mount it where it is slightly harder to adjust? Anybody with access to a basketball can adjust a bullet. Slightly higher mounting positions for bullets just keeps accidental adjustment to a minimum. Vandal domes, on the other hand, are almost impossible to adjust and easy to ignore down low where cams are most effective for facial ID. The major trouble with low cams is their vulnerability to spraypaint. You'll just have to trust the built-in anti-tampering alarm for notification and hope your coverage is good enough that you got a pic of the jerk who painted your camera. But face it- if they come with spraypaint to disable your cams then they'll most likely also have thought to wear a mask because they knew that there were cams and came prepared. Cameras aren't like having on-site security guards.

[Kawboy12R 0]

Oh, if you really want a good face level shot without low domes, look at mounting the Axis P1214-E somewhere discreet. There's an indoor pinhole version (P1214) or the slightly larger weatherproof P1214-E. You'd have to get creative on how to hide them but they look quite flexible as far as mounting abilities.

for some business-oriented options.

[tome9999 0]

Oh, if you really want a good face level shot without low domes, look at mounting the Axis P1214-E somewhere discreet. There's an indoor pinhole version (P1214) or the slightly larger weatherproof P1214-E. You'd have to get creative on how to hide them but they look quite flexible as far as mounting abilities.

for some business-oriented options.

 

 

Hmm, interesting. I have my P3367 on order now so I'll see how it looks/works in the location I am considering. But I'll keep these in mind if it doesn't work out on the front porch...

Thanks!

[Kawboy12R 0]

They're priced fairly reasonably, too. Shouldn't be a problem finding them well under $500.

[shockwave199 0]

Don't forget it only takes a single good frame for a chance to ID. As it's been mentioned, cameras are almost no deterrent at all. It only give us a chance for ID and that is a gamble at best. Criminals just go about their crime with cameras pointing right at them. But have barking dogs and then they move on to easier targets. You could also consider a higher mount with a varifocal camera to bring it back in tighter.

 

Here's a couple examples of a 3.6 fixed 2mp dahua on a front door where the client wants the door, but is actually interested in the entrance to the lot in the distance as much or more because of frequent accidents. It's mounted about 10' high. One cam can only do so much, but a 2mp camera can suffice, albeit with some compromises.

 

 

 

[tome9999 0]

Don't forget it only takes a single good frame for a chance to ID. As it's been mentioned, cameras are almost no deterrent at all. It only give us a chance for ID and that is a gamble at best. Criminals just go about their crime with cameras pointing right at them. But have barking dogs and then they move on to easier targets. You could also consider a higher mount with a varifocal camera to bring it back in tighter.

 

Here's a couple examples of a 3.6 fixed 2mp dahua on a front door where the client wants the door, but is actually interested in the entrance to the lot in the distance as much or more because of frequent accidents. It's mounted about 10' high. One cam can only do so much, but a 2mp camera can suffice, albeit with some compromises.

 

Thanks Shockwave. I do have (2) barking dogs, though when a neighbor was broken into recently they found out about it because someone a couple miles from their house called them at work after finding their dog which the thieves let out. Not long after that break-in we had the local sheriff come to talk to the neighborhood about what can be done. They said that dogs have not been a deterrent (at least not in our area). Criminals, like delivery service drivers, bring treats. They just let the dogs out and give them treats. They were proponents of alarms and video.

 

This article I recently posted suggests that cameras ARE a deterrent, it claims even signs indicating surveillance are a deterrent. At least for the criminals they interviewed On the other hand, it says that dogs are a deterrent in direct contradiction to our local sheriff.

 

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[shockwave199 0]

There are exceptions, but generally the harder the target the better the chances are they'll move on to softer targets.

[tome9999 0]

There are exceptions, but generally the harder the target the better the chances are they'll move on to softer targets.

 

Agreed. That is why I am here - trying to make my house a little less enticing than the neighbors. That is also why I grow dandelions " title="Applause" />

[shockwave199 0]

Grow your lawn a foot tall and no one will show up.