Mobotix or Axis

[TommyB 0]

Hi,

New to the world of video surveillance.

Have decided on either Mobotix or Axis to cover the homestead / property.

I Like the decentralized / edge way that Mobotix and Axis use. Write to SD card, or to NAS

Just not sure which camera manufacture yet. Looking for input from the experts here.

4000 sqft home sitting on approx 2 acres.

Trying to figure out how many of the Mobotix I would need vs the Axis. I read somewhere, may have been on the Mobotix site that one Mobotix can replace six of xyz's cameras?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Kawboy12R 0]

I don't have any Mobotix but it's hard to go wrong with Axis. Their new Lightfinder cameras are quite impressive and give good hi-def pictures in low light. I'm not sure if you could find a brand with wider industry support or camera selection either. As far as Mobotix claiming that one of their cams can replace 6 of another brand, they don't have anything that Axis doesn't. It'd either be in reference to a high definition camera having 6 times the detail of an analog camera or a 360 degree fisheye camera being able to catch a whole room from a single central overhead location. To my eye, if it's an issue, Axis cameras also look less like science fiction gamma ray weapons than some of the Mobotix solutions.

 

I'm not an expert but I've looked into lots of cameras in the last year. You might have to sit down with a GOOD installer familiar with both brands and tell them exactly what you want from your cameras and where you want them in order to choose one brand over another based on hardware. Mobotix software gets slammed (even by their installers) for being unfriendly quite often though.

[No5 0]

To my eye, if it's an issue, Axis cameras also look less like science fiction gamma ray weapons than some of the Mobotix solutions.

 

Exactly!

 

Axis have some great products but strictly for residential purposes, don't rule out ACTi solutions either.

[Peter_ 2]

I have both Axis and Mobotix. Personally I really love the P33 series of cameras from axis. They work excellent in low light - even better then Mobotix in my application. I just replaced a day/night mobotix D12 with a P3364-ve and have had great results. If you want to use the Axis camera companion software for viewing recordings make sure the camera you buy is compatible.

 

On the other hand I have a mobotix M12 day/night for a high traffic area and it has been going strong for many years now - always catching all the events I needed.

 

Both axis and mobotix have great support too. I recently bought an axis camera from a 3rd party (off ebay) which arrived not working. It was still under warranty and they replaced it completely free of charge. I just had to pay for postage to their US repair partner.

 

Axis cameras are super easy to setup and install. Mobotix cameras can be very tricky, but they have nearly endless customization to them (temperature, motion sensors, email, dual sensor modes, etc).

[buellwinkle 0]

Camera image quality and customer service in this price range is probably close these days so I'll focus on the differentiators.

 

Mobotix D14 dnight has no moving parts, we have a bunch, and never had one fail or hang since 2009. They can operate complete without a PC, meaning you can record to SD or NAS and view the camera and recordings without a PC, just a browser, even from an iPad Safari browser. I can expand to as many cameras as you can need, no limit. It's limitations are 3MP for day and 1.3MP for night. While no software or PC is required, it's one camera at a time, if you want more of a CMS look where you can see a few cameras at a time, you can install their MxControlCenter software and it provides an easier to use interface and can see multiple cameras on one display.

 

Axis P33 has moving parts, it has a motor to operate the lens, it has a day/night IR cut filter that rotates twice a day and I've had Axis cameras fail, but overall they are well made. The advantage of the motorized varifocal lens and motorized focus is that it can make install easier, but once installed, you will not likely use this feature again. They come in various resolution which Mobotix does not, so you can get 1MP or 5MP and actually their best is the 5MP, the p3367-ve, works well in low light although not quite as good as the Mobotix night sensor. Axis does make on outdoor camera with IR illuminators, the P3364-LVE, but it's only 1MP. Their ACC software that allows it to do what you want, write to SD or NAS is limited to 16 cameras, it's an actual in-camera app that runs, it's a PITA to setup say on a laptop where you want to use your local IP at home but WAN IP when away, and is not browser based, it's software you install on Windows and installing it on multiple PC's is also a pain as you have to synchronize the configuration between them. But it's much easier to use than Mobotix. Also, doesn't really display all the cameras at once in a grid pattern, it shows one camera in a larger size and all the rest along the bottom as thumbnails.

 

Tough choice. On my commercial projects, it's mostly Mobotix, why, because 16 camera limit won't cut it and the cameras are only viewed when an incident is reported, so some cameras are not touched for a year, and a year later, I want to know it's working. At home, I use ACTi mainly because I like cameras with built in IR illuminators, but otherwise I would use Axis cameras.

 

So what do you since you chosen two brands that for the most part don't have IR illuminators built in. If you can tolerate white light, I've been happy with porch lights in the front of my home that use LED bulbs (CFL is not as effective). But clearly there will be spots where that's not practical. like my side yard lights bother my neighbor and you need IR lighting. Axis OEM's their lights from RayTec from what I can tell, prices are comparable. A good Axis or RayTec IR illuminator should run $800-1,300. You can go to the Axis or Raytec website to see what's available. I always assume that you get half the rated output. Meaning if it says it's good for 100', I would assume that it will work to my satisfaction at 50'. It's not that they are lying, it's that they assume you are OK with very slow shutter speeds which are not practical. Also be careful on the width of light, like it may say 30-60 degrees, but the distance of light is different at different angles but in their advertising they will say 100', but not tell you it's at 30 degrees and maybe only 50' at 60 degrees. Most of these run off 12v or 120VAC, so make sure you consider this in the design. They make PoE lights but they typically require higher power midspan injectors, not what your typical PoE switch can handle and if you go through that much trouble, might as well just run 12v.

[TommyB 0]

So what do you since you chosen two brands that for the most part don't have IR illuminators built in. If you can tolerate white light, I've been happy with porch lights in the front of my home that use LED bulbs (CFL is not as effective).

Wow, something that I failed to research while doing the looking at the cameras.

Guess I need to read more on all this.

I can put white light all around the property, as you can see from the pics above the lights would not bother anyone. Well might make the wife ask "why are you making this lit up like it's daytime"

 

I've talked to a couple people here in Orlando, and they are mostly commercial and will not do residential. The ones that do residential are using some cheaper cameras.

And again, thanks for the replies

[buellwinkle 0]

I love lit up houses, nothing uglier than driving down a street late at night to have all the lights out and be dark. BUT, just make sure you don't annoy the wife, happy wife, happy life and lights on the outside do have a way of shining inside too, so certainly a consideration. Also, porch lights work for me because I'm in a tiny suburban lot in comparison. But if you need to project out further than say 10-20', then IR illuminators may be the better choice as they can shine 50' away because they are focused in one direction where porch lights are omnidirectional.

 

So this is why I chose a brand like ACTi that has IR illuminators built in across most of their line of cameras. I get the same level of support from ACTi as Axis or Mobotix. Sometimes all 3 get back to you the same day, sometimes it takes a few days, not saying anyone of them is perfect, but they will go out of their way to help and I've had all 3 connect directly to my camera to troubleshoot a problem. Also, while Axis and Mobotix do not make an NVR, ACTi has a pretty decent NVR, priced reasonably. ACTi can write to a NAS or SD but there's no easy way to view the recordings, so not recommended for that use.

[Sawbones 0]

In my experience you cannot go wrong with Mobotix. I have a half-dozen mounted on my home, and they work great... they never freeze or fail.

 

I also have some Acti cameras in the same system, and they work great when slaved to appropriate sensors. I use reed switches to trigger emailed images when certain gates/doors are opened. Similarly, I also have a few that are attached to PIRs for alerts (Note: Video-motion alerts are teh suck... I did away with any reliance on that method VERY quickly). With what I have now, I know when anyone pulls into my driveway, opens a gate or garage door, walks around outside, drops off a package at my door, etc. False alerts are VERY rare when you use quality, hard-wired sensors. Assuming you use a camera that can take digital I/O, virtually any sensor that you can think of in a standard burglar alarm can be wired to a camera.

 

All of the cameras record to a dedicated PC-based NVR that runs on a Quad-core intel board. 8 Terabytes of drives gives me about three weeks of recorded video. However, I rarely have to access the NVR to see if somebody stopped by, since alerts are emailed to my phone in real time. That said, the NVR has come in handy for traffic accidents that happened on the road in front of my house, trespassers at the neighbors (I can see some adjacent properties in certain views), etc.

 

Assuming a quality brand of camera, lighting is what makes the difference between usable images, and crap. Think carefully about backlighting (eg. dark interior of a home, bright daylight outside, and somebody walking through a doorway from outside... that backlit silhouette is a serious challenge for most cameras), and consider whether certain cameras need to be WDR (or SDR in the case of Acti). I'm in a neighborhood with an HOA that discourages the use of floodlights. This required me to use quite a bit of infrared... which is expensive, but does work.

 

Keep looking until you find a company that knows something about IP cameras. Orlando is a big city, and there should be plenty of people who can do that kind of work.

[Quantum 0]

I -never- got more than 4 ips full-rez with the Mobotix M12, running their software on a Linux server. Their support assured me that this is the best it can do, which does not cut it.

[TommyB 0]

I also have some Acti cameras in the same system, and they work great when slaved to appropriate sensors. I use reed switches to trigger emailed images when certain gates/doors are opened.

how do you find the mixing of cameras and the operation headaches? With the mixing the brands I guess you have to have that NVR instead of using the built in one that the mobotix has.

[buellwinkle 0]

I prefer to stay with one brand myself but there's always that one camera you may want and it happens. If you start mixing brands, it may be best to look at NVR software and getting a PC to run it. This gives you the most flexibility.

[TommyB 0]

I prefer to stay with one brand myself but there's always that one camera you may want and it happens. If you start mixing brands, it may be best to look at NVR software and getting a PC to run it. This gives you the most flexibility.

 

That's what I was thinking. for the time being stick to one brand. Can always add NVR later. Don't think the wife will mind one more computer running.. already 6 running hahah

 

what are your opinions on these;

Axis P3364-VE - general front of home / by garage x 2 ( 2.5-6 mm lens, 105° - 49° view)

Axis P3384-VE - backyard pool area x1 (3-9 mm lens 84° - 30° view)

Axis P3364-LVE - side yard low / to no light x 2 (3.3-12 mm lens 82° - 24° view) ((can add some motion detection spot lights if needed))

 

Thanks

[Sawbones 0]

I also have some Acti cameras in the same system, and they work great when slaved to appropriate sensors. I use reed switches to trigger emailed images when certain gates/doors are opened.

how do you find the mixing of cameras and the operation headaches? With the mixing the brands I guess you have to have that NVR instead of using the built in one that the mobotix has.

 

No headaches at all. The cameras all record to the central NVR, but also record internally to SD cards (in the case of the mobotix), FTP server off-site (in the case of one particular camera), and to email. I have a record of what happened in multiple places, so even if somebody manages to make off with the NVR, I still have photographic record of the event.

 

The NVR is running Luxriot, BTW.

[Quantum 0]

Hm, Luxriot does not run on Linux.

[Sawbones 0]

Hm, Luxriot does not run on Linux.

 

 

That is true... but I've wrestled with Zoneminder in the past, and been left quite frustrated... and I've been using Linux steadily since the 2.0 kernel.

 

The selection of Linux NVR software is pretty slim... although Exacq is an option.

[buellwinkle 0]

You have such a large area, not sure you will be happy with 1MP cameras like the P3364/P3384. May cost a little more, but the P3367-VE at 5MP has very good low light sensitivity, not that much worse from the 1MP "Lightfinder" cameras and I was very surprised when I did the review on it back to back with the P3384-VE. Also, the P3384-VE is Lightfinder or WDR, not both, but the P3367, you get pretty good low light sensitivity + WDR. You can start with white light outdoor house and landscape lights and figure where to add IR illuminators later. Someone here can recommend lower cost IR illuminators than Axis provides as they are very pricey. I tried these $40 ones on eBay that were awesome, but both only lasted a few months and died. So maybe better than the $40 and less than $800 Axis ones.

 

Also, while micro SD cards sound like a great idea, they are expensive for 64GB, $60-70 each and if the camera is stolen, they just took your recordings with it. With 4 cameras, just get a nice 2-3TB NAS, plug it in the same switch and it will hold way more recordings for less money. On the low end, I use a WD My Book Live or if you want some redundancy, a Netgear ReadyNas.

[Sawbones 0]

I'd get both; there is strength in redundancy (having recordings/images in more than one place). When the Tweek Squad burglarizes your home to fund their Methamphetamine habit, redundancy prevents them from making off with all the evidence.

 

I've seen commercial burglars steal DVRs, and tear down cameras... but those types of burglars typically have a LOT of time when they hit a business during the night. A burglar hitting a residential home in an actual neighborhood (and that's usually going to happen during the day) is unlikely to take the time to climb ladders, get up to the camera mounting locations, get the right hex-wrench to remove the security screws, and remove a an SD card/tear-down the camera.

 

They might steal your DVR (unless it's in a hardened location, like a secured room, or large safe), but I've never seen residential burglars take the time to climb up and rip out well-mounted dome cameras. I've seen them cut the cables to bullet cameras, or redirect/vandalize them (which is considerably easier), but domes are a lot tougher, and would require a prybar or crowbar to remove from a wall/soffit. This also makes noise, and attracts attention.

 

Between emailed alerts, a central NVR, and some internal flash storage, I don't think you're going to have too much trouble retaining some evidence.

 

And what's more, when your phone buzzes, and you check your email to see some shady-looking van backing into your driveway, all you need to do is call the police or a neighbor to check out what's happening. The last time I called the police to my home, there were here in two minutes flat.

 

Timely alerts are the key.

[TommyB 0]

plan is to use the sd cards for a temp solution while I get the NAS in place.

Camera does all the work, then dumps the events to a NAS if I understand what I'm reading.

[TommyB 0]

 

I've seen commercial burglars steal DVRs, and tear down cameras... but those types of burglars typically have a LOT of time when they hit a business during the night. A burglar hitting a residential home in an actual neighborhood (and that's usually going to happen during the day) is unlikely to take the time to climb ladders, get up to the camera mounting locations, get the right hex-wrench to remove the security screws, and remove a an SD card/tear-down the camera.

 

No so much worried about the daytime With me at the home office, and my babies

 

You have such a large area, not sure you will be happy with 1MP cameras like the P3364/P3384. May cost a little more, but the P3367-VE at 5MP has very good low light sensitivity, not that much worse from the 1MP "Lightfinder" cameras...

Those are good tips buell.

I was under the impression that the 5's did not do well in low light.

Also, just going to start with the 4 camera's as a way for me to get a handle on all these new toys. Will end up with more then 9 or 12, by the time I cover the yard + a few in the house

[Sawbones 0]

A German Shepherd and two Dobermans?

 

 

That's a big deterrent right there.

[tome9999 0]

A German Shepherd and two Dobermans?

 

 

That's a big deterrent right there.

 

 

Are you kidding? It's the little dog you need to worry about

[Kawboy12R 0]

You're going to need to put up mirrors on the buildings across the street to catch face shots as they're running away. Maybe set up one camera INSIDE with a monitor at your mailbox running 24/7 showing everybody what's waiting to chomp on unwelcome visitors...

[Sawbones 0]

Are the Dobermans named Zeus and Apollo?

 

Because that would be full of win.

[TommyB 0]

Are the Dobermans named Zeus and Apollo?

Because that would be full of win.

hahah, I wish. Just big couch babies.

Dobes are 11 year old, 8 year. Shepard is 7 months old.

Little white mean dog we rescued from the pound is 5 years old. His name is Convict

The bicycle riding, book thumping crew rings the doorbell and before I can get there, they are usually standing in the middle of the

street with the "Ohhh never mind look in their eyes"

 

Anyway, guess I'll place the order for 2 cameras to play around with today.

P3367-VE at 5MP for front

P3384-VE for pool area

Play with these, then decide on the others.

 

Looks like the only 33 series that has IR is the P3364-LVE

[Sawbones 0]

Are the Dobermans named Zeus and Apollo?

Because that would be full of win.

hahah, I wish. Just big couch babies.

Dobes are 11 year old, 8 year. Shepard is 7 months old.

Little white mean dog we rescued from the pound is 5 years old. His name is Convict

The bicycle riding, book thumping crew rings the doorbell and before I can get there, they are usually standing in the middle of the

street with the "Ohhh never mind look in their eyes"

 

Anyway, guess I'll place the order for 2 cameras to play around with today.

P3367-VE at 5MP for front

P3384-VE for pool area

Play with these, then decide on the others.

 

Looks like the only 33 series that has IR is the P3364-LVE

 

Be wary of built-in IR... it attracts bugs and spiders, which will web up your cameras, or trigger your motion-detection.