Lorex LNR280 NVR motion detection

[bizier 0]

I got the Lorex 8-camera LNR280 NVR as part of the Costco package with 4 cameras. Seems to work decently well:

 

• good capacity (2 TB on the included drive)
  
• the web+plugin, Android tablet, and Android phone interfaces seem okay (but not perfect)
  
• the builtin PoE switch is handy

 

...except the motion detection has way too many false positives. There were over 100 events last night, I think from bugs. A few so far this morning also. Has anyone been able to do better? There are two controls: draw an area and slide the sensitivity. Seems like it detects nothing with no area selected, so the red grid must be where you want to detect motion. And seems like it detects nothing with the slider all the way to the left, so I have it one notch to the right. I'll repeat those experiments later to be sure.

 

My yard has a lot of plants and trees moving in the wind, small creatures (bugs, birds, squirrels, and neighborhood cats) going by, and some areas where you can see neighbors' yards or the streets. I've tried to select only non-plant parts of my own yard, but the motion detection is still not that useful. Should I be expecting this NVR to handle this? If not, would some other one be better? I'm new to this.

[Securame 0]

Any camera with IR will give you false positives; any camera outdoors will give you false positives; and any camera with IR and outdoors will give you even more false positives.

 

If after playing with detection zones and sensitivity you are still not happy with the results (too many videos with nothing), maybe you should install some outdoor PIRs that will trigger the recordings, so bugs, wind, trees, bushes, dirt, etc. won't be a problem any more.

[SB_Jim 1]

I got the Lorex 8-camera LNR280 NVR as part of the Costco package with 4 cameras. Seems to work decently well:

 

My yard has a lot of plants and trees moving in the wind, small creatures (bugs, birds, squirrels, and neighborhood cats) going by, and some areas where you can see neighbors' yards or the streets. I've tried to select only non-plant parts of my own yard, but the motion detection is still not that useful. Should I be expecting this NVR to handle this? If not, would some other one be better? I'm new to this.

 

I've got the same issues as you do - w/ the equivalent Swann system. The motion works very well, but all of the factors you mentioned - make it difficult to minimize false detections. I have lots of trees / plants / shadows from trees, etc. That makes it really difficult. The best I've found is to visit the monitor various times of the day to learn where the least action is happening. Try to be extremely selective in where you place the red box (detection area) while still keeping them in the areas of interest. On calm or overcast days - my motion is spot-on! So I've learned to just live within the constraints of motion due to plants, shadows, birds, etc.

 

In one view of my side yard, even a lizzard on the fence set off the motion. I have all of mine on the second level from the bottom re: sensitivity.

 

As already suggested, using a PIR detection device will eliminate all of the "visual" cues that are causing false motion recordings.

 

Good luck.

[bizier 0]

Thanks for the advice!

 

What is it about the PIR sensors that make them better at minimizing false positives? Is it that they're not right next to the IR emitter? (I imagine the IR might attract the bugs; the direct reflection might also not help matters.) If so, I imagine I'd have to place the PIR sensors some distance away from the camera to be effective - how far? I wonder also if it'd be possible to get a similar effect by disabling the camera's IR emitters and use some external ones instead.

 

I would think that you could do a lot better in software at discriminating person-like motion from bug-like motion, but if such software isn't available off-the-shelf, I don't really have time to invest in advancing the state of the art myself.

[Kawboy12R 0]

On calm or overcast days - my motion is spot-on! So I've learned to just live within the constraints of motion due to plants, shadows, birds, etc.

...

As already suggested, using a PIR detection device will eliminate all of the "visual" cues that are causing false motion recordings.

 

That's the only way to set motion detection- under best-case viewing. You just have to live with the false positives or you'll miss real events. I tweaked too hard to ignore the false positives once and missed a face shot of a guy in my driveway trying to break into my car. I got video on the overview camera but he was too far away for anything but a vague description. He was too far away to trigger the motion alarm on the cam that was designed to catch his face. That's the peril of tweaking by yourself and waiting to see what you catch (or don't catch) before tweaking again.

 

It helps a LOT to have someone moving in the field of view to see what passes the threshold. Preferably a small someone moving slowly at the distance you want to capture motion in. Another time I thought everything was set well until it occurred to me that I was only seeing joggers and people walking two or more dogs. A single person walking on the sidewalk with even one dog wasn't quite enough motion to trigger an event. Smaller people walking towards the camera (up my driveway or up the walkway) could get quite close before it started recording. I was only seeing them from farther away because of the pre-record interval (easy to understand in hindsight). Anybody walking into the end of my driveway but not getting really close wasn't recorded at all.

[SB_Jim 1]

Thanks for the advice!

 

I would think that you could do a lot better in software at discriminating person-like motion from bug-like motion, but if such software isn't available off-the-shelf, I don't really have time to invest in advancing the state of the art myself.

 

Bizier,

 

That technology does exist. It called analytics - and it's pretty cool from what I've seen in an online demo. However, it may be considered a bit of a niche item among many of us DIY camera owners for our homes.

 

Kawboy12R - can something like this be used to independently trigger more than one camera?

 

http://www.ezcctv.com/attributes/cmplx_dt_sht/filename/LGWP%203020.pdf

 

In other words, can one zone trigger one cam, while another zone triggers a different cam?

 

What does it take on the NVR side of this device to enable its useage if one were to set their motion to take input from a PIR?

[Kawboy12R 0]

That unit works in conjunction with their 16 zone wireless receiver. Unfortunately I couldn't find specifics or pictures of the wire hookups on the receiver but it certainly looks like there are multiple detection zones at different distances on that PIR that could be used to activate different cameras or actions for each zone distance via the receiver. The receiver should hook up to the NVR's alarm inputs via wires and I'd expect to be able to set up actions according to the different distances. Shame they didn't post more info on them.

 

That PIR would be excellent for vocal warnings the closer a person walked, wouldn't it? First zone "You are under video surveillance. Come no closer." Turn lights on and start recording. Second zone "You were warned not to come closer. Notifications have been sent out." Third zone "Active defenses have been activated. Leave or you may be injured." and turn on a rotating beacon. Fourth zone "Click..."

 

OK, gotta start looking at whole-home automation now...

[SB_Jim 1]

K - you made me laugh! That's one nifty motion detection device! It caught my attention since I could mount it at the front of my house and have it control two or three different cams.

 

Yea - With as much interest as I seem to have in all things "electronic", I think that home automation would be a fun project. I have one unused "remote" button built into my car that I don't use, and I was thinking that it'd be easy enough to simply open the gate to my back yard & garage, and also turn some light or appliance on in the house - all at the same time. Now, that's certainly not any priority, but controlling the thermostat and or lights / door locks could be cool! Having a guest arrive before I get home, or someone needing access to my back yard, I could open the back gate (already on a controller), and watch it happen at the same time! I replaced the bad cable that I pulled two weeks ago (6 in total) and finally got my other driveway cam installed. Now I've got one cam looking towards the street while another looks at the gate towards the garage. I don't park in my driveway.

 

 

 

I'll have to do a bit more research on the PIR options for motion - seems like it might help me a lot. I want the emails, but not delivered by a moving truck!

[bizier 0]

That technology does exist. It called analytics - and it's pretty cool from what I've seen in an online demo. However, it may be considered a bit of a niche item among many of us DIY camera owners for our homes.

 

I searched a bit and see what you mean: cool demos but nothing available for sale to consumers. And I bet the enterprise things cost a lot more than installing a handful of PIR sensors. So until someone makes awesome open source software for this, analytics is not worthwhile.

 

So the choices are: carefully tweak the motion settings as you did to get the false positive rate down a little, or totally nail the problem by using PIR sensors. PIR sensors would mean switching NVRs, as the Lorex LNR280 doesn't seem to support triggering/tagging the video stream based on external inputs.

 

If I go the PIR route: I'm still wondering, do I have to place it some distance away from the (IR-emitting) camera to be effective?

 

Thanks again!

[shockwave199 0]

I've never used PIR sensors, but I would suggest you only consider good ones and they can range from close to 100 bucks and up. I do use wireless sensors for stuff, of the cheap variety. They generally take a pounding from climate conditions over time. It's a device you depend on for critical alerts, but over time it gets pounded by sun, freezing temps, humidity, rain, and just age. They all seem to work well in the first year and then they start to succumb to the elements. At a certain point for exterior cameras you have to concede defeat. You block what you can, set sensitivity as best you can, do a walk through to check it all carefully, and that's it. Depending, it can make the most sense to just record continuously. Some systems support dual recording, where you can have lower quality settings for continuous and higher quality when motion is sensed.

 

But as far as motion sensing, I have a client who missed two events from absolute beginning and end because of such a wide field of view in a parking lot. There was no choice but to schedule combinations of continuous/motion recording so nothing would be missed. And it's fine. You know you won't miss a thing with continuous recording and regardless of the decrease in archive time, you have full time coverage. There was a time when I would turn off recording my home system during rain or snow, thinking that was prudent to save hard drive space. That is, until I missed theft at 3am during a rain storm. That ended that. And forget relying on emails for exterior cameras. More often than not, it's not practical.

 

I think of it this way- if you're not recording, you're missing. You should be maxing out hard drive size regardless. Record people, just record.