Decent IP Cameras Under $250 each?

[buellwinkle 0]

Exactly, the over processing Dahua does to get a noise free image makes for a nice picture but lousy for trying to ID someone.

[jdoggg1 0]

The D31 is sort of the TCM-1111 replacement, is in your budget. Just above your budget, and maybe mixing cameras to achieve various goals may work best is the D32 which is 3MP and works quite well and slightly above budget. Indoors, the D54 IR dome should work well, should be under $250. Trick with ACTi is to find an authorized dealer and most on the net like B&H are not. If you need help, PM me.

Looks like i'll go this route for a couple - any suggestions on some cheapies for inside?

The Dahua IPC-HFW3200S is a nice compact outdoor bullet camera for under $250, assuming you can find someone selling them in the US. It's got flaws, but the daytime image is pretty good for the money, with a bit of softness.

 

Likewise, the Lorex (Hikvision) 1080p 2-pack is a decent camera for a decent price, if you don't mind spending under your budget. I haven't tested one, but the reviews here have been pretty good.

 

You'll get better software and better customer support, in general, with the more expensive cameras.

I missed them... I really hope they come back in stock soon

[shockwave199 0]

I think you have to keep things in perspective too. Take a look at some analog footage for an eye adjustment. Buy as good as you can afford. I think too often we get caught up in just picture quality. I save that for when I'm picking a still camera for the holidays. A 1.3 or 2mp dahua has about as good a chance at solving a crime as a 5mp axis. It's how the cameras are implemented for every zone you're covering. THAT is the challenge. Not how well leaves look on tress, but rather, how well is your zone lighted for your camera choice in the darkness of 3AM. How well the camera is aimed and framed. When some putz is trying to pry up your garage door, take advantage of an open car door, or jiggling the front door knob, how well will the camera do THEN? You want to know how well your choices are working- be the criminal in front of your cameras in the dark of night. That's when you see what the deal is. And THAT's the footage that can impress and convince others. Still shots of absolutely nothing happening for the sake of picture clarity doesn't really help the cause. And yet, we spend all kinds of money on a hope that the camera will be okay. It actually amazes me with surveillance, that we are forced to choose our weapons of choice for something as critical as crime solving, almost sight UNSEEN for our particular applications. And we pay dearly for the wrong choices.

 

Yes, it's definitely the end result that matters. I ran analog cams for years, and that's why I've replaced them all with IP cams.

 

Here's an example that's not just leaves on trees, but shows the basic issue with Dahua's softness in shadows. It's a bright afternoon; plenty of light - this shouldn't be a challenging situation.

 

Each of these is around 25' away from the camera, which is set for 3MP and 8192 kb/s, with the lens pulled back to 3.3mm. I've used Blue Iris to zoom in on the appropriate portion of the image; zoom didn't change on either capture.

 

In the well lit part of the yard:

 

And in the shade, just a few feet to the side:

 

This is why I consider Dahua's softness to be a problem.

What 1.3 or 2MP will handle that better? Cause it's 250 bucks or under that was asked. I'd be curious to see hiks or a lorex result.

[MR2 0]

We've been using this: http://www.securitycamera2000.com/products/POE-Full-HD-1080P-IP-Camera-3-Mega-IR-40m-Waterproof-2.8mm%252d12mm.html

 

works with Milestone, quality seems good, we've been getting the PoE version with Express freight for $210 each when buying in bulk (10x)

 

 

 

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/mgoodwinmr2/IPQ2322_zps5e84ef81.png

[shockwave199 0]

The dahua 2MP mini dome has it's quirks, but it can still produce. That plate is 25' out and the car was in motion. Just caught a good frame. 1080p 15fps CBR 4096.

 

 

 

[SB_Jim 1]

I will be receiving the Lorex branded Hikvision domes this week to add to my system. I will then be able to compare the qualities of both.

 

If the dome works well and not too much IR reflective glare back, I'm going to order a Hikvision branded one with a 12 mm lens.

 

 

Are these Lorex (Hik) domes 2-axis? Can they be mounted on a vertical wall (portion under my eaves) to replace my bullet? Are there restrictions to mounting a mini-dome on a vertical surface?

 

Joey, I'll be very interested to know the dimensions (footprint of mounting surface, height from mounting surface to top edge of dome).

[buellwinkle 0]

Yes, 2-axis, so the camera has to be mounted with the dome level and facing down, can't be surface mounted or mounted on pitched eave. They do sell a wall mount for this camera as well as a tilt mount you can use on like a pitched eave.

 

Would love to see other's people's impression of this mini dome as I had had IR bleed issues.

[SB_Jim 1]

Thx Buell.. I was hoping to replace a small bullet near my front door w/a mini dome. Like someone else said recently, adding the extra mounting adapters kind of spoils the otherwise clean look of the dome. At least I could use one indoors, but was hoping to buy in the "pair" scenario and use one in each location.

 

Would you kindly explain why a two axix dome won't work on a vertical surface? In my still learning mind I envisioned that the cam would look outward, and being quite wide angle, could still be adjusted to look in a general direction of preference.

 

Thx.

[MaxIcon 0]

What 1.3 or 2MP will handle that better? Cause it's 250 bucks or under that was asked. I'd be curious to see hiks or a lorex result.

 

All the Dahua bullets seem to share this. The 2MP and 3MP are essentially the same camera, and the 1.3MP shot posted above shows the same softness.

 

Hard to tell about the dome; the good looking shots a few posts above don't have near shade with texture that would show the issue. The Dahuas do give nice images in well lit situations.

 

I didn't see this problem in the Swann/Hik 3MP bullet that I tested. It had better resolution with less softness in the shadow areas. They get noisier in very low light, compared to the Dahua, so there's a trade-off for either.

[jdoggg1 0]

The swann 2 pack for $350 is back in stock at costco - I just ordered a set.

[SB_Jim 1]

Thx Buell..

 

Would you kindly explain why a two axix dome won't work on a vertical surface? In my still learning mind I envisioned that the cam would look outward, and being quite wide angle, could still be adjusted to look in a general direction of preference.

 

Thx.

 

Bump...

[shockwave199 0]

Hard to tell about the dome; the good looking shots a few posts above don't have near shade with texture that would show the issue. The Dahuas do give nice images in well lit situations.

Yeah, these shots show it some I think.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not a deal breaker, but overall when you have an incident that you'd like to see better on playback, it becomes very apparent that you get what you pay for, and even though we're talking mega pixel territory where analog could just not keep up at all, there are still limitations to higher res, and not all cameras are created equal. It's almost like you should consider fixed 1.3 and 2mp the 'analog' of megapixel. You'll get great shots, but it will have limitations.

[shockwave199 0]

Thx Buell..

 

Would you kindly explain why a two axix dome won't work on a vertical surface? In my still learning mind I envisioned that the cam would look outward, and being quite wide angle, could still be adjusted to look in a general direction of preference.

 

Thx.

 

Bump...

Without pan it will limit your choices for placement. A wide shot is not a replacement for pan, especially at doorways and such. This is a dahua mini dome and it can't be panned much- perhaps 35 degrees or so. But that ability makes all the difference to open up placement of the camera. It needed to go to the right of the door and pan a bit left to regain the proper shot. Just a wide image would not have been enough.

 

 

 

Now consider how much you can actually get out of even a 2mp 3.6 camera. Not the end all, but certainly you get some mileage out of the increase in resolution from that one single wide shot.

 

Positive ID at 20'

 

 

Positive vehicle make ID, male fits general description at 55'

Possible helpful tracking of suspect wearing black at approx 95'

Motor cycle possible general match at approx 70'

Possible vehicle match driving by at approx 200'

 

 

A stretch? Not really I don't think. Try that with analog. Laughable. But the more you want to cover, the better and higher res the cameras need to be. A 3.6 2mp fixed camera won't do much better than this, as far as I can tell. And that'll put you in the OPS price range of choices.

[buellwinkle 0]

Would you kindly explain why a two axix dome won't work on a vertical surface? In my still learning mind I envisioned that the cam would look outward, and being quite wide angle, could still be adjusted to look in a general direction of preference.

.

 

The reason is that the camera lens can only pan/tilt, it can't rotate, so if you mount it flat on a vertical wall, you can aim the lens straight out and tilt without a problem. If you try to pan the lens left/right, it will rotate the lens. For example, if you pan the lens say 20 degrees, it may tilt the image 20 degrees. With a 3-axis camera you can rotate the lens a to compensate.

[JoeyJoey 0]

Would you kindly explain why a two axix dome won't work on a vertical surface? In my still learning mind I envisioned that the cam would look outward, and being quite wide angle, could still be adjusted to look in a general direction of preference.

.

 

The reason is that the camera lens can only pan/tilt, it can't rotate, so if you mount it flat on a vertical wall, you can aim the lens straight out and tilt without a problem. If you try to pan the lens left/right, it will rotate the lens. For example, if you pan the lens say 20 degrees, it may tilt the image 20 degrees. With a 3-axis camera you can rotate the lens a to compensate.

 

But if I plan, test and mount the camera, there should be no issue right? It just makes adjusting the view after the fact, very hard.

[buellwinkle 0]

That's a nice theory, but won't work because you are rotating the camera which is no different than panning. When you pan, you are just rotating where the lens points, what you want to do is rotate the actual sensor, the 3rd axis and you can't do that by rotating the camera. I did take it apart and you may be able to remove the circuit board that holds the lens and rotate to a fixed position and then find a way to mount it back in place. Do go about 10-15 degrees, it looked possible, beyond that it would be very difficult. But you may break the camera so do so at your own risk.

 

Trust me, I own two 2-axis ACTi domes, I've been there, done that. I have one wall mounted, but looks straight out, the other is ceiling mounted and I can point it exactly where I need it to be.

[MaxIcon 0]

It's not a deal breaker, but overall when you have an incident that you'd like to see better on playback, it becomes very apparent that you get what you pay for, and even though we're talking mega pixel territory where analog could just not keep up at all, there are still limitations to higher res, and not all cameras are created equal. It's almost like you should consider fixed 1.3 and 2mp the 'analog' of megapixel. You'll get great shots, but it will have limitations.

 

Yeah, this is it in a nutshell. The inexpensive IP cams are great starting points, but you quickly find the weak spots, and then have the dilemma of how much money to throw at the problem.

[jdoggg1 0]

Yeah, this is it in a nutshell. The inexpensive IP cams are great starting points, but you quickly find the weak spots, and then have the dilemma of how much money to throw at the problem.

Devil's advocate : This is true of all electronics. I've found that middle-of-the-road electronics are the best long term value. On the low end you don't get quality and high end results in diminishing marginal returns. Every PC I build uses upper middle-range parts --or-- top tier parts of the previous generation.

 

I am starting to think that, for residential use, ~$225-300 is the sweet spot for security cameras. This seems to be where you start seeing a worthwhile benefit in quality over a $100 camera. Then, a you soar over $500/camera, you get bells and whistles that are a bit overkill for residential monitoring for ID purposes. It's easy to look at one more feature, then one more feature, then one more feature... but at the end of the day, I think many are like me, bottom line is that I want a reliable camera with good picture quality and decent night performance.

 

Discuss

[MaxIcon 0]

I agree with this, but I feel the $300+ Dahua 3300C should be in that spot, and am disappointed it's not - I was expecting more from it. Even the $170 Hik 3MP and Dahua 3200S are pretty good performers, overall, for the money, since below that you get the Foscam/Wansview stuff that everybody hates.

 

My old Vivotek IP8332s were $300 cameras, and were the sweet spot in the value/performance spectrum for home users. Now we get higher resolution for less money, but the software isn't as good in general.

 

All I'm asking is a nice daytime image, a decent nighttime image with no blur, and reasonable firmware/technical support for under $250. The Hik does well on 2 of 3, while the Dahuas only hit 1 of 3. I guess that's asking too much for too little money still.

[shockwave199 0]

I guess that's asking too much for too little money still.

Emphasis on the word still. The offerings are a moving target. We'll see new stuff and improved stuff, and we'll see crap touted as being good, as always. For residential, I'm optimistic that we'll be seeing more/better/improved options at the 250-300 dollar range. But it's not there yet. Another two years, my guess.

[SB_Jim 1]

That's a nice theory, but won't work because you are rotating the camera which is no different than panning. When you pan, you are just rotating where the lens points, what you want to do is rotate the actual sensor, the 3rd axis and you can't do that by rotating the camera.

 

Trust me, I own two 2-axis ACTi domes, I've been there, done that. I have one wall mounted, but looks straight out, the other is ceiling mounted and I can point it exactly where I need it to be.

 

Thx Buell.. - for the explanation. Guess the Lorex / Swann mini-dome won't be an alternative for my bullets - which I can live with.

[cglaeser 0]

Guess the Lorex / Swann mini-dome won't be an alternative for my bullets - which I can live with.

 

I'm coming into this discussion late and did not read the entire thread, but one issue to consider with bullets is the ease with which they can be re-aimed. A friend of mine had bullets all around the outside of his building, so the burglars used a long 2'x4' (which they found on site) to point all the cameras towards the sky.

 

Best,

Christopher

[buellwinkle 0]

Definitely, from a security standpoint, vandal domes are better, but they are harder to setup for beginners, 2-axis domes make it even harder and in this price range, there are compromises. In a perfect world, we can get Axis P33 or Mobotix D15 domes for under $250.

 

Also, pro-burglars are not going to be deterred by cameras. They will wear lose clothing, caps, glasses, even masks, spray your cameras with paint and then do what they want to do. You'll never stop the pro's. but at least slow them down, hope they make a mistake but most home or small business burglaries are not done by people that are that smart, mostly smash and grab. Also, cameras are deterrent, why go through the trouble of robbing a home with high end surveillance cameras and/or alarms when most home have zero security.

[JoeyJoey 0]

Joey, I'll be very interested to know the dimensions (footprint of mounting surface, height from mounting surface to top edge of dome).

 

Height from surface to peak of dome is 80mm.

Width at base is 110mm.

[jdoggg1 0]

So, after many tangents, is there a concensus on which are the recommended cameras in this range? Bullet/Dome versions?