Milestone X-Protect Go

[thewireguys 3]

I have been testing and using Hik cameras with Avigilon for months and I have not had issues with the motion detection. If your trying to be to precise you will have issues missing events. Remember this is PIXEL based motion detection not analytic based. If you record extra movement in the FOV it is not that big of a deal since you can search video way faster then Milestone IMHO.

[FastEddy 0]

One of the features I absolutely must have is the ability to view the same cameras in both real time and recorded video at the same time

I'm a noob, and it is hard for me to imagine a scenario where I might need that in a private residence where I only have a few cameras and only occasionally watch the video feed in real time. If I saw something in real time I would probably go outside to investigate rather than rely on recorded video. I wonder if running two instances of the Milestone Smart Client might not serve that need...but in any case I can't justify the extra expense on that feature alone, but your needs are very different from mine.

[FastEddy 0]

If you record extra movement in the FOV it is not that big of a deal since you can search video way faster then Milestone IMHO.

I think maybe the search features that you are talking about are crippled in the Core version, but again, in a residential setting how important is the search feature? For my use I use the time line to scrub the recorded video and they both do that well. And I didn't have "issues" with the in-camera motion detection...I set the one camera that faces the street at the highest sensitivity available and in one instance where someone was walking in the street in front of my neighbor's house didn't appear until they were halfway across the street. With XProtect I am able to trigger the recording when the person is on the opposite curb. I imagine I could set the pre-record high enough on Avigilon as a work-around if I could figure out where that setting is, but is that ability in itself worth twice the money?

[thewireguys 3]

If you record extra movement in the FOV it is not that big of a deal since you can search video way faster then Milestone IMHO.

I think maybe the search features that you are talking about are crippled in the Core version, but again, in a residential setting how important is the search feature? For my use I use the time line to scrub the recorded video and they both do that well. And I didn't have "issues" with the in-camera motion detection...I set the one camera that faces the street at the highest sensitivity available and in one instance where someone was walking in the street in front of my neighbor's house didn't appear until they were halfway across the street. With XProtect I am able to trigger the recording when the person is on the opposite curb. I imagine I could set the pre-record high enough on Avigilon as a work-around if I could figure out where that setting is, but is that ability in itself worth twice the money?

 

FYI none of the search features are crippled in CORE or STANDARD.

[FastEddy 0]

FYI none of the search features are crippled in CORE or STANDARD.

I stand corrected.

 

One of the things that ak357 showed me via Team Viewer was a window with a clip listing showing the time, date, and duration of each clip, and I could not find out how to bring that up, so I assumed that feature wasn't available on the Core edition. I'm sure that some of the things he was showing me aren't from the Core edition...there is no doubt in my mind that those camera systems were far from entry level and not a doubt that the software was far from entry level as well. Absolutely, there are a ton of things I don't know about Avigilon, but for my needs I have a hard time getting past the in-camera motion detection and the hefty (for my budget) price difference. Also, you can't save views with the Core edition, which seems kind of retarded that you can only have one view when you start up the client.

 

But I have 2 VMs set up, one with XProtect GO and one with Avigilon, running side by side, and I'll let them both run for awhile, and maybe I'll warm up to Avigilon, if I can just get past the in-camera thing. I've got most of the 30-day trial left and a 4TB HDD so I'll just let 'em run and see how I feel in a week or two.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Guest

[ssmith10pn 0]

Nothing compares to pixel search in Avigilon.

 

[ssmith10pn 0]

Also, you can't save views with the Core edition, which seems kind of retarded that you have to set up your views every time you start up the client.

 

If you arrange the client like you want it and close the program it will open back up the same exact way.

[FastEddy 0]

Nothing compares to pixel search in Avigilon.

 

 

Um...that's the Enterprise Client. That interface bears no resemblance to the minimal interface you get with the Core version. I can't get mine to look like that no matter how hard I try. Do you have something that shows the Core version?

 

And I think I read that pixel search doesn't work with HikVision (ONVIF), but again,with a small residential camera system, I don't see pixel search being a must-have.

 

EDIT: TOUGH crowd, tough crowd! You Avigilon guys are a dedicated bunch, aren't ya!

 

EDIT2: Ok, the pixel search looks like it works after all...and there's that list of clips that ak357 showed me. Too cool!

Edited September 18, 2013 by Guest

[FastEddy 0]

If you arrange the client like you want it and close the program it will open back up the same exact way.

XProtect GO (the free version) lets me create any number of views and I can see any or all of them over the internet with an ordinary web browser or the mobile app. Like I said, retarded.

 

EDIT: I just created a second view, closed the client and then re-opened it, and the two views were still there. The comparison chart

http://avigilon.com/products/avigilon-control-center/editions/

says that saved views are not supported in the Core Client, but apparently they are. I'll have to play with this some more. In the meantime, I take back the retarded statement. My apologies to the faithful.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

Nothing compares to pixel search in Avigilon.

 

 

Um...that's the Enterprise Client. That interface bears no resemblance to the minimal interface you get with the Core version. I can't get mine to look like that no matter how hard I try. Do you have something that shows the Core version?

 

And I think I read that pixel search doesn't work with HikVision (ONVIF), but again,with a small residential camera system, I don't see pixel search being a must-have.

 

EDIT: TOUGH crowd, tough crowd! You Avigilon guys are a dedicated bunch, aren't ya!

 

EDIT2: Ok, the pixel search looks like it works after all...and there's that list of clips that ak357 showed me. Too cool!

 

That clip is from version 4.0 of the software. 5.0 has the same features just in a different layout.

 

And like I said NONE of the search features are crippled in CORE or STANDARD

[thewireguys 3]

If you arrange the client like you want it and close the program it will open back up the same exact way.

XProtect GO (the free version) lets me create any number of views and I can see any or all of them over the internet with an ordinary web browser or the mobile app. Like I said, retarded.

 

I agree I wish CORE had the ability to save views but keep in mind you only have 24 cameras and you can drag all of them out with one click.

[FastEddy 0]

Ok, how do I set the pre-record/post-record interval?

[FastEddy 0]

Guys, I'm telling you, it does save the views. I created 3 tabs and they are all still there when I re-open the client. Maybe if I shut down the server those views will go away?

 

Avigilon sure is smooth, I'll give you that.

[thewireguys 3]

If you arrange the client like you want it and close the program it will open back up the same exact way.

XProtect GO (the free version) lets me create any number of views and I can see any or all of them over the internet with an ordinary web browser or the mobile app. Like I said, retarded.

 

EDIT: I just created a second view, closed the client and then re-opened it, and the two views were still there. The comparison chart

http://avigilon.com/products/avigilon-control-center/editions/

says that saved views are not supported in the Core Client, but apparently they are. I'll have to play with this some more. In the meantime, I take back the retarded statement. My apologies to the faithful.

 

Saved view means you can save the current view, name it and it will show it in your camera tree. This feature is only available in Standard or Enterprise

[thewireguys 3]

Ok, how do I set the pre-record/post-record interval?

 

Not sure this is available with ONVIF cameras. Normally the pre/post is configured on the motion setup page

[cglaeser 0]

I'm a noob, and it is hard for me to imagine a scenario where I might need that in a private residence where I only have a few cameras and only occasionally watch the video feed in real time.

 

Well, I'm not a noob. I have so many burglary arrests in our neighborhood that half the officers on the police force know who I am. Last month a couple police detectives called me and asked for a demonstration of my equipment to understand how I was doing it. And, I live in one of the safer cities in the state.

 

Most DIY who visit this forum want to install a surveillance system. Nothing wrong with that, but when that is the major objective, they lose sight of the reason why they decided to install the system in the first place. So, they install some cameras, someone burglarizes their auto or home, they post the video on YouTube, and everyone will ooh and aaw over the lighting and the mexapixels and frames per second. Meanwhile, rarely is anyone arrested.

 

When I designed my system, my number one objective was not to simply video burglars for YouTube, but to arrest them. I've learned a great deal in the last several years and I continue to refine my system and technique. The most sure way to get an arrest for burglary is to detect them while they are engaged the burglary. Anyone that thinks they can review video the next morning of an auto burglary that happened in the middle of the night and glean enough forensic information to result in an arrest, well, good luck with that.

 

I use long range outdoor motion sensors that are integrated into a voice alarm system that alerts me when someone is on our court. When I get an alert at 3:20 am because someone is checking car doors across the street, seconds count. The dispatch number is on my speed dial and I place the call as I monitor the cameras. Within seconds I want to be able to answer as many questions as possible. What have they done, what are they doing, how many are there, what are they wearing, which direction were they last seen. I have lots of experience trying to provide answers to these questions while burglaries were in progress using both Exacq and Avigilon, and I'm here to tell anyone interested, there is no comparison. Not even close. Exacq is not up to the task.

 

The problem is that the cameras have a FOV, and trust me on this, the burglars will come in and out of the FOV of one or more cameras. To get a good description of the suspect(s), scrolling through and finding the best still frame is usually required. You may also need to zoom in. But at the same time, you want to keep an eye on them too. All the while, the dispatcher is asking for updates on what they are doing. If you can put real time video in some of the frames and recorded video in other frames, that makes it very easy to simultaneously watch what they are doing and review what they did.

 

So, when I say that I must have both real time and recorded video displayed simultaneously, it is based on the experience of multiple arrests. Of course, another option is to sleep the through the burglaries and review the video the next morning while eating breakfast cereal. It may not result in any arrests, but we'll all enjoy watching the YouTube video.

[FastEddy 0]

In my case, we have lived in our home for just shy of 35 years. There haven't been any burglaries on our block in that time, although our 28-year old truck was vandalized recently after leaving it parked out on the street for a couple of months. The Auto Club took care of the damage (a broken driver's side window and broken taillight).

 

My wife is diabetic and her feet are giving her a lot of trouble and the cameras enable her to keep an eye on our 9-year old grandson who lives next door as well as not have to answer the door unnecessarily or otherwise be on her feet any more than necessary. So like I said, our needs are very different.

 

EDIT: Are you sure that Pleasanton is one of the safer cities????

Edited September 18, 2013 by Guest

[FastEddy 0]

deleted...not sure it is working...

[cglaeser 0]

EDIT: Are you sure that Pleasanton is one of the safer cities????

 

Yes, but I can run the stats for comparison. What city do you reside?

[ssmith10pn 0]

Guys, I'm telling you, it does save the views. I created 3 tabs and they are all still there when I re-open the client. Maybe if I shut down the server those views will go away?

 

I have a customer running 16 encoders on 4 monitors using core. (that's 64 cameras) You configure the views like you want and then you close the program. It writes that configuration to a file in C:\users\user name\app data\roaming\avigilon\auto_saved.dat

 

If you log off the computer or shut down the computer without closing Avigilon client first it will not write to that file any changes from the last time you opened it.

[FastEddy 0]

Yes, but I can run the stats for comparison. What city do you reside?

Naw, I wouldn't trade places with you anyway.

 

EDIT: Norco, CA

 

EDIT2: Multiple arrests? Dare I ask: What is your opinion of XProtect?

[skomo 0]

If you arrange the client like you want it and close the program it will open back up the same exact way.

XProtect GO (the free version) lets me create any number of views and I can see any or all of them over the internet with an ordinary web browser or the mobile app. Like I said, retarded.

 

I agree I wish CORE had the ability to save views but keep in mind you only have 24 cameras and you can drag all of them out with one click.

 

This is a massive bug bear of mine.

They should enable Core to save only 1 view only.

Imagine having 10 encoders running on core and accidentally closing the view...

[buellwinkle 0]

EDIT: Are you sure that Pleasanton is one of the safer cities????

 

Yes, but I can run the stats for comparison. What city do you reside?

 

43% off all statistics are made up. See, just made that up. Maybe Pleasanton does not report crimes to keep stats low. I know my city is hesitant in logging crimes and I had to ask our police chief why a certain crime in my neighborhood was not logged. So I would bet my city is safer stats wise, but not necessarily in reality.

[FastEddy 0]

So buellwinkle, you have tried (and reviewed) several VMSs...why did you choose Xprotect?

[buellwinkle 0]

Actually, Voipninja is to blame, he got me hooked on XProtect as we took similar paths to get here. So I started with BlueIris a few years ago worked well but was a CPU hog so as I added more cameras and more megapixels, it became less feasible to run without a large hardware investment. So I switched every camera to ACTi so I can use ACTi NVR software, much better, can run as many cameras as I need to on my slow Atom processor PC at the time. Did a lot more than BlueIris with multi-camera playback and complete remote web access, two things lacking in BI that I felt I needed.

 

Then I wanted other brands of cameras, Dahua, Hikvision, Axis, AVTech, so I started to use Synology Surveillance Station. Full web interface, multi-camera playback, fancy search options but it was sluggish. Someday I'll sell the licenses since I don't use it anymore or maybe use it at our weekend home.

 

I've tried Exacq and Nuuo before this, OK, but had limitations with supported camera models. Also, I travel with a MacBook Air that replaced my iPad so I wanted access natively from Safari with no ties to Windows or IE.

 

I got the 30 day trial to Essentials, put 8 cameras on it and it's been working well all around for me for about 3 months. I have to do a review, just been busy. It has a good Android app, so from my bed side, if I hear a noise, I tap on the Milestone icon on my tablet and pretty quickly see what's going on or even look at recent recordings. The web interface works with my MacBook, so good to check up on things while on the road from there.

 

So what's wrong with XProtect, it's a bear to install and configure. You have to start by installing the product and download and install the latest "device pack". Then I had to manually configure each camera through their wizard and then go back and tweak settings to get it the way I want. Then you have to setup the mobile server to get web and smartphone access. There's a lot more knobs to tweak than any other software I tried, but once you have it setup, it runs very well. CPU on a first generation i3 computer is pretty low, maybe 10-15% as a server. When using the smartphone client, it shoots up to 90%, don't know why because when I use the web interface or smart client it does not go up much if at all.

 

So why not Avigilon, I believe Voipninja hit many of the same hurdles, first, I can't even get the regional sales rep to return my calls, second, I hear it's not Mac friendly and third Core costs substantially more than Essential and lastly, Essential allows 5 clients to connect, Core only 2.

 

Since I switched -

 

BlueIris has improved their CPU use, still high, but much better with direct to disc recording. Also, promises of multi-camera playback have been made.

 

ACTi NVR3 now supports a few brands of cameras outside of ACTi. They plan on adding support for more brands and ONVIF in the very near future. I really like it, but has a dependency on IE and Windows. Also they only have an IOS app, no Android yet. Not to the level of XProtect, but easier to use and install and a full web based client.