Help with new Service Station/Gas Station install

[thewireguys 3]

Would you share who is the manufacturer of this camera?

 

Thanks.

 

Can you show full size pictures?

 

Thank you.

Almost full size

 

Sure he will over a phone call

[icamera 0]

Why not on forum?

Why are you getting involved?

Was the question addressed to you?

 

Or are you causing trouble again.... usual bad behavior?

 

 

Sure he will over a phone call

[ak357 0]

Sure he will over a phone call

Actually, as of now ph call will not help

[ak357 0]

Why not on forum?

Why are you getting involved?

Was the question addressed to you?

 

Or are you causing trouble again.... usual bad behavior?

 

 

Icamera plz note wireguy is my personal friend

[icamera 0]

Seems quite unusual. As if you are both trying to hide information.

 

Strange.

 

Why not on forum?

Why are you getting involved?

Was the question addressed to you?

 

Or are you causing trouble again.... usual bad behavior?

 

 

Icamera plz note wireguy is my personal friend

[ak357 0]

Seems quite unusual. As if you are both trying to hide information.

 

Strange.

What is unusual about ?

that wireguy is my friend ?

about info

it is very simple

we say what we want to say

exactly like everybody else on this forum

[icamera 0]

I understand some information you like to keep secret?

 

It seems whenever question come up you dont answer or you reply but when ask for more info you stop giving it....

 

Seems quite unusual. As if you are both trying to hide information.

 

Strange.

What is unusual about ?

that wireguy is my friend ?

about info

it is very simple

we say what we want to say

exactly like everybody else on this forum

[shockwave199 0]

can you send uncompressed video with IP

Well what's the compressed footage of HD-SDI look like?

 

Cameras are secondary right now to me figuring out whether I want to go IP or HD-SDI, that's the first decision.

I understand what you saying, but cameras have to stay number one too. You can spend 5k on ten mega pixel type cameras alone. If you can't possibly afford the cameras needed for your coverage, mega pixel is out of the question right there.

[thewireguys 3]

I understand some information you like to keep secret?

 

It seems whenever question come up you dont answer or you reply but when ask for more info you stop giving it....

 

Mr icamera what information are you giving? Seems like your here to take information without reciprocating.

[thewireguys 3]

Well what's the compressed footage of HD-SDI look like?

 

The compressed video will look as good as IP video since they are booth compressed though some will argue that HD-SDI has better video.

[shockwave199 0]

Why would that be argued? Is that your experience as well? I have always heard that you can't or shouldn't use old coax for HDSI. But it seems like a retro fit doing exactly that is working out. I couldn't do that as I ran premade cables anyway- no way that'll do. So personally I'd be redoing it all anyway.

[icamera 0]

I'm here to learn. Is this not one reason for which forum exist?

 

Mr icamera what information are you giving? Seems like your here to take information without reciprocating.

[icamera 0]

When you were in school what reciprocity did you offer your teacher?

 

 

Mr icamera what information are you giving? Seems like your here to take information without reciprocating.

[thewireguys 3]

Why would that be argued? Is that your experience as well? I have always heard that you can't or shouldn't use old coax for HDSI. But it seems like a retro fit doing exactly that is working out. I couldn't do that as I ran premade cables anyway- no way that'll do. So personally I'd be redoing it all anyway.

 

Some say that because there is more processing power available they can use better compression. HDCCTV Alliance has lots of info if you care to read. http://www.highdefcctv.org/why-hdcctv

 

Not saying that I believe all of it but it is on the internet so it must be true.

[ak357 0]

Why would that be argued? Is that your experience as well? I have always heard that you can't or shouldn't use old coax for HDSI. But it seems like a retro fit doing exactly that is working out.

As of now I sold over 20 HD-SDI system

as new and retrofit

so far I seen problem once

customer used new RG 59 made in china

did not work

after replacing cables no problem

[shockwave199 0]

Huh, well good to know. Thanks.

[what-da 0]

Can I suggest a few points....

 

1, Run the ethernet cable back to a central secure point, run more cables than you actually need for each run, you will find that from point to point you can easily run 4 as you can 1.

2, Do not run anything less than IP camera's, it just does not make sense to fight with old Tech anymore.

3, stop stressing about licence plate camera's, they are nothing fancy, the only thing about them honestly is where they are aimed, plenty of $200 camera's these days have vari-focal lenses which you can zoom in on an area and grab that specific area.

4, don't go for anything less than 1080p/3pm camera's

5, go a PC for your DVR, it means you can upgrade it and repair it cheaply as required.

 

for the Camera's quite a few people on here like the Dahua. I personally like the IPQ2322x, do a google and you'll find them for $200, they even do night vision and have a nice image.

for the switch, you 100% want a PoE switch, you have two options, either a PoE or PoE+ I prefer PoE+ for future proofing (it allows the devices hanging off your switch to draw up to 25/30w) if you get a managed one (more expensive) it lets you log in and reset a camera without having to go and unplug the cable (so if you have a VPN from your home to your work, you can do this remotely)

for the software there are plenty of options, I've quite liked Milestone from the day I got it rolling, now we have 3 sites running it, there is a free version for up to 8 camera's however it's limited to no NAS access and only 5 days of footage (and a few other things)

 

MR2 can you post some day and night picture of IPQ2322x

[MR2 0]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/mgoodwinmr2/IPQ2322_zps5e84ef81.png

 

inbuilt night vision when mounted 8m up

 

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/mgoodwinmr2/lol_zps4093c4d3.png

 

night vision in a smaller room

 

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/mgoodwinmr2/NightVisionIPQIndoor_zps0fe0cd32.png

 

 

opened, showing the vari-focal lens

 

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/mgoodwinmr2/ipqinsides2_zps608a6043.jpg

 

what the front of it looks like:

 

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/mgoodwinmr2/DSC03914_zps44199a39.jpg

 

zoomed in on forklift of above image

 

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/mgoodwinmr2/Zoomin_zpsebbacfcf.png

 

 

we're happy enough with them that we've just bought another 10x of them.

 

features:

 

PoE

3mp

works with Milestone (Onvif)

86degree view at widest angle (2.8-12mm lens)

Outdoor, (sealed)

has IR, (not that great on large area's though)

 

our latest buy we paid $210 each for them

[newtype 0]

FYI

HD-SDI systems

Few notes based on field observations

 

* Quality is as good as IP cameras with 2 MP that's around $300-400 range

* Best quality : HD box camera + Tamron Mega Pixel lens -> IP cameras look better because they have outstanding lenses, hence the cost goes up. -> It still is lower than typical IP camera setting

* Cable and connector qualities are very very important for Hd-SDI. : This is very hard to determine since every cable and connectors are same in spec. Ask manufacturer for recommended cables and connectors. HD-SDI is derived from broadcasting technology. The coax cables and connectors for HD-broadcasting give the best results, but are extremely expensive. Like the other post, some cables (yes, especially ones made in China) do not transmit as well. But some low cost cables tend to outperform high quality Bosch HD coax cables. Connectors MUST be 75 ohms. Otherwise the distance and quality drop significantly.

* HD-SDI video in 1080p can go 300~900 ft depending the cable quality. (Again, hard to pinpoint. IP cameras go around 400 ft on the other hand.) HD-SDI repeaters and extenders are more readily available nowadays.

* HD-SDI extenders often do the trick by lowering video quality. Smaller video size. Be aware!

*There is almost no lag in HD-SDI live monitoring. Although it's not always 100% real time. Still better than IP camera live view. I have seen 5 second+ lag in IP camera monitoring.

* It takes less time to install HD-SDI. On IP cameras, you must set network on each camera before you install and test settings.

* HD-SDI has same 2 MP resolution. You can't adjust the lens accurately with hand held monitor (through composite output on HD cameras). Lens adjustment is not too easy.

* Better to go with Fixed lens HD-SDI in regular environment. This reduces installation time dramatically.

* HD-SDI cameras draw more power than analog cameras.

* Video storage issue is about the same as IP camera settings. It eats up HDD a lot more than analog.

 

these are just few things to consider with HD-SDI.

Hope that helps.

[MR2 0]

FYI

HD-SDI systems

Few notes based on field observations

 

* Quality is as good as IP cameras with 2 MP that's around $300-400 range

* Best quality : HD box camera + Tamron Mega Pixel lens -> IP cameras look better because they have outstanding lenses, hence the cost goes up. -> It still is lower than typical IP camera setting

* Cable and connector qualities are very very important for Hd-SDI. : This is very hard to determine since every cable and connectors are same in spec. Ask manufacturer for recommended cables and connectors. HD-SDI is derived from broadcasting technology. The coax cables and connectors for HD-broadcasting give the best results, but are extremely expensive. Like the other post, some cables (yes, especially ones made in China) do not transmit as well. But some low cost cables tend to outperform high quality Bosch HD coax cables. Connectors MUST be 75 ohms. Otherwise the distance and quality drop significantly.

* HD-SDI video in 1080p can go 300~900 ft depending the cable quality. (Again, hard to pinpoint. IP cameras go around 400 ft on the other hand.) HD-SDI repeaters and extenders are more readily available nowadays.

* HD-SDI extenders often do the trick by lowering video quality. Smaller video size. Be aware!

*There is almost no lag in HD-SDI live monitoring. Although it's not always 100% real time. Still better than IP camera live view. I have seen 5 second+ lag in IP camera monitoring.

* It takes less time to install HD-SDI. On IP cameras, you must set network on each camera before you install and test settings.

* HD-SDI has same 2 MP resolution. You can't adjust the lens accurately with hand held monitor (through composite output on HD cameras). Lens adjustment is not too easy.

* Better to go with Fixed lens HD-SDI in regular environment. This reduces installation time dramatically.

* HD-SDI cameras draw more power than analog cameras.

* Video storage issue is about the same as IP camera settings. It eats up HDD a lot more than analog.

 

these are just few things to consider with HD-SDI.

Hope that helps.

 

Let me expand on this one for some IP HD Bias...

 

1, the saying that the connector quality is important is an understatement, on quite a few systems we've been placing the BNC connectors have been the bane of our existance, I'm at the point that any system we have which has a BNC on it gets replaced!

2, the 5 second lag may apply only to certain systems, I went outside and tested our camera systems lag, between going from the camera, to the server, which then exports the data to a dedicated mobile server, which then sends through 4g service to my mobile phone, the total lag was under 2 seconds, I expect that the lag using the Milestone Smart Client would be considerably less since the smart client connects directly to the server itself, if you like I can test this.

3, distance does not really effect IP camera's, since essentially anywhere you have network with enough bandwidth to send the stream through, it will work, for example we have camera's hanging off switch's that are on the end of 400m of cable, we could have camera's Km's away if we wished, depending on where your cabling a huge advantage is being able to just clip the camera's Ethernet cable straight into any Ethernet infrastructure, anywhere in the business without running any new cables all the way back to your DVR/NVR location

4, Ethernet cabling is also quite future proofed, the old cat5e that people still run is capable of gigabit speeds up to 100m, to give you an idea 20 of our 3mp camera's are using a grand total of 12meg a sec constantly in total, this is 12% of the cat5e capability and it takes 20 camera's to saturate it to that level, cat6a cable which is becoming the new standard & is maybe 20% more expensive for a 300m reel is capable of 10gigabit...

5, probably the biggest advantage of Ethernet is probably the PoE Capability, if you should wish you can run PTZ's, IR lights all sorts of crap straight off one ethernet cable per device.

[MR2 0]

another question.... what industry do you consider to be expanding faster? IP Camera or HD-SDI camera? I know I see heaps of IP based camera's and only recently noticed the existance of HD-SDI... but then I'm not in the industry.

 

if you deploy HD-SDI and the rest of the world is going IP does this mean all that gear will be redundant the next time you wish to upgrade? does this mean that when XYZ camera comes out it's got a 90% chance of being IP and you will not be able to attach it to your system?

[thewireguys 3]

The advantage with HD-SDI is you can reuse existing cabling, uncompressed 1080P zero latency video and camera prices are lower then IP cameras. If you purchase SD-SDI or CCTV cameras now and decide to switch later to IP you will have to replace the cameras or find a VMS that supports your DVR.

 

Personally I think HD-SDI/HDCCTV is missing the boat by no having a low cost 4 channel encoder which is supported by major VMS platforms. I have been impressed with the video from the cameras but going back to DVRs is a non-starter for my customers.

[MR2 0]

The advantage with HD-SDI is you can reuse existing cabling, uncompressed 1080P zero latency video and camera prices are lower then IP cameras. If you purchase SD-SDI or CCTV cameras now and decide to switch later to IP you will have to replace the cameras or find a VMS that supports your DVR.

 

Personally I think HD-SDI/HDCCTV is missing the boat by no having a low cost 4 channel encoder which is supported by major VMS platforms. I have been impressed with the video from the cameras but going back to DVRs is a non-starter for my customers.

 

Prices are lower including cost of converters?

what price is a HD-SDI camera that's 3mp + connectors?

 

I'm going to test latency this afternoon with the smart client

[thewireguys 3]

You use HD-SDI/HDCCTV cameras with HD-DVRs and resolution is limited to 1080P. No software or converters are needed it's just like installing an analog camera system.

 

Here is a 2MP indoor dome for $165.60

 

http://www.123securityproducts.com/vtd-hoc4f-iw.html?gclid=CIWindP5t7gCFRSi4Aodo1IAqQ

 

Here is a example of the latency though I think this is over exaggerated.

 

EtDCaqbxax4

[MR2 0]

one of the guys from this site (Bullwinkle) says that the Dahua dome is available sub $200

 

http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=848

 

 

it'd be cool if a Mod could whip a copy of these posts into a HD-SDI vs HD-IP thread