Dahua IPC-HFW2100 bricked - can it be rescued?

[MaxIcon 0]

Their specs show the lens size options, but actually getting them can be tricky, as it depends on what your vendor stocks or will order. It would be nice if they'd just sell the lenses separately, so you could buy known compatible ones without rolling the dice.

[mroek 0]

I've been reading your investigation regarding sensor size and pixels with interest, but it is really difficult to figure out whether I'd get enough coverage with the different candidates to replace the HFW2100 that I have. The Dahua 3200S presumably takes the same lenses, but being widescreen, that means I'd lose quite a bit of image at the top and at the bottom. The Hik has a 3MP mode (which isn't really 3MP as you've discovered), but it crops the sides in the process, losing HFOV. In a different thread I saw someone write that going below 4 mm on the Hik would cause the top shield to come into the image.

 

I really think in the majority of cases it is better with a 4:3-format for a security camera than 16:9, and if only the Hik had been providing the full width of the image in both modes, it would have been more or less perfect. The fact that they glue the lenses is a drawback, of course.

[MaxIcon 0]

Yeah, it's a problem. I've got the HFW2100N, HFW3300C, and Hik 3MP bullet, and can post some comparisons of the 2100 and Hik. The 3300 has the same 1080p dimensions as the 3200S, I believe, but this one has a varifocal lens, so not as easy to compare. You might want to look back over the 3200S posts and see if you can tell more about the real FOV.

 

FOV specs are a problem with these cams (and many M12 lens cams), as they're not very accurate overall. The vendors need to spec actual measured FOV, not calculated, and also need to give it for each resolution setting.

 

I'll be posting more Hik images this weekend and will be taking down my 2100, so I can make a comparison post for those, at least.

 

ETA: I've been working on FOV measurement techniques, and I believe I have a pretty reliable method down. Using this, I got the following FOVs:

 

Hik 3MP mini bullet, 4mm lens, in 1080p mode (1920x1080): 68 degrees, spec is 75.8 degrees

Hik 3MP mini bullet, 4mm lens, in 3MP mode (2048x1536): 62 degrees, spec is 75.8 degrees

Dahua 2100, 3.6mm lens, in 1.3MP mode (1280x960): 63 degrees, spec is 70 degrees

 

Note that the vendors don't spec FOV for different resolutions, even though they're clearly different.

[mroek 0]

Comparison shots between the Hik and the 2100 would be great (looking forward to see them), even though your numbers seems to indicate that the Hik in 3MP mode (4mm lens) is pretty similar in HFOV (and thus also VFOV) to the 2100 in 1.3MP-mode (3.6mm lens), and should be a good candidate for replacing the 2100.

 

I've been in contact with an Aliexpress merchant that sells the Hiks, but they're currently out of stock (sells very good, she said). The downside is that shipping is ridiculously expensive.

 

The fact that Hik actually posts public firmware updates is a big pro for them.

[mroek 0]

MaxIcon, could you also include pictures from the other available resolutions of the Hik when you compare it to the 2100?

Does the Hik have a 1280x960 mode also?

[MaxIcon 0]

On firmware 5.0.0, the Hik only has 720p, 1080p, and 3MP, so the only one that would match the 2100 directly is 720p. The 720p and 1080p are both the same FOV, so the 720p image is interpolated from the 1080p sensor capture.

[mroek 0]

On firmware 5.0.0, the Hik only has 720p, 1080p, and 3MP, so the only one that would match the 2100 directly is 720p. The 720p and 1080p are both the same FOV, so the 720p image is interpolated from the 1080p sensor capture.

Ok, thanks. I've been in contact with a supplier on Aliexpress, and I think I will try the Hiks, just want to see your comparison shots before pulling the trigger on them. If the Hiks can provide more or less the same HFOV and VFOV as my 2100 in 1280x960 mode, then it is more or less a sure thing. It would seem the Hik is better in most areas, perhaps except noise in low light, but as Buellwinkle pointed out, a little noise but with preserved details can be just as good as less noise and less detail.

[MaxIcon 0]

Here are some comparisons, most of them reduced in size 50%. The Dahua is a few feet below the Hik, sitting on a ladder, and the cams are aligned so the image starts at the same point on the left:

 

Hik at 720p, optimized for daytime shadows vs lower night noise - WDR=21, contrast=25:

 

Dahua 2100 at 720p, default settings (no WDR on the firmware version in this cam; I'll have to update it and see if it helps):

 

Dahua 2100 at 1.3MP - same horizontal resolution, more vertical resolution:

 

Hik at 3MP, with the smaller FOV than the 1080p image:

 

Finally, here's the Dahua, full size 720p, with contrast dropped to 40 to try to open up the shadows. Setting it to 25 like the Hik made it completely washed out. This image shows the softness in shadows that was the showstopper for me on the Dahua - it just turns stuff into fuzz. Even the half-size Hik images are better. The 2MP and 3MP Dahuas do the same thing.

 

ETA: Updated for mroek's corrections.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Guest

[mroek 0]

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to do this!

 

It seems the Hik has approximately the same coverage in the 3MP mode as the Dahua in 1.3MP mode, just as I was hoping. And it is actually a bit wider in the 720P mode than the Dahua, meaning that if I don't need as much VFOV, I can run it in that mode for better HFOV. I gather the Hik has the same FOV in 1080P mode (which you didn't post any shots from) as in 720P, right?

 

Then a few comments to what you wrote:

Why do you think the Dahua should have changed HFOV when switching between the 1.3MP mode and 720P? The horizontal resolution is exactly the same, the 720P-image is just cropped top and bottom. No extra interpolation, I think.

 

And you also wrote that there is no WDR on the Dahua. That's not entirely correct, in one of the later firmwares, Dahua added WDR also to the 2100. Mine has it, it's one of the "BLC mode"-options.

[MaxIcon 0]

No problem, I enjoy testing the different cams. Yes, the Hik 1080p FOV is the same as the 720p, just fewer pixels.

 

You're right about the Dahua horizontal resolution; I thought it was wider, like the 3MP, but didn't check it, so that's normal. I'll update the post for that. My 2100 doesn't have WDR, and really needs it, so it's probably the older firmware. I'll update it and see how much that helps. Thanks for the corrections!

 

I'll be pulling it apart soon to see why most of the LEDs died. I haven't heard of that happening with other 2100s, and am assuming I got a lemon. Unfortunately, no support for this one, so I'll need to try another LED board from ebay if the one in it can't be fixed.

[mroek 0]

How is the noise reduction on the Hik?

From the screenshots of the config interface, there seems to be a slider to adjust it. Does it also degrade daytime images?

 

And one more question: In the Hik user manual (which covers a lot of models) there seems to be a "Corridor mode", where you either mount the camera sideways, or rotate the lens and sensor board. I gather the latter is probably not possible on the Hik bullet, but is the corridor mode actually present in the config options for this camera?

[mroek 0]

Did any of you play around with the noise reduction on the Hik?

 

I am going to order some Hiks to replace my 2100s anyway, I think. There isn't many compelling arguments to buy the 3200S, I figure. It is slightly larger (and I like small), Dahua has this annoying firmware policy (although to be fair, I have gotten some firmwares directly from them, and they did fix the noise reduction issue I complained about), but most of all, it is only 16:9, and that is a disadvantage for me (except in one location, where it doesn't matter).

 

And the Hiks also have a plugin that works in Firefox, from what I understand. The IE-only policy of Dahua is also a drawback.

[ilkevinli 0]

The new Dahua firmwares now work with Chrome. Just an FYI.

 

Did any of you play around with the noise reduction on the Hik?

 

I am going to order some Hiks to replace my 2100s anyway, I think. There isn't many compelling arguments to buy the 3200S, I figure. It is slightly larger (and I like small), Dahua has this annoying firmware policy (although to be fair, I have gotten some firmwares directly from them, and they did fix the noise reduction issue I complained about), but most of all, it is only 16:9, and that is a disadvantage for me (except in one location, where it doesn't matter).

 

And the Hiks also have a plugin that works in Firefox, from what I understand. The IE-only policy of Dahua is also a drawback.

[mroek 0]

And with Firefox. I just tried.

 

But I'm going to try Hiks anyway.

[MaxIcon 0]

I don't remember seeing corridor mode on there.

 

I have a post here where I've optimized my new quasi-panoramic setup for day and night trade-offs, and it includes using noise reduction for the night shots:

http://www.cam-it.org/index.php?topic=4828.0

 

I've posted a sample of the pics below.

 

The noise reduction helps the Hik night noise a good bit. It does soften the day shots some, but they're still much sharper than the Dahua images, so I'm ok with that. I've only had this setup for a few days, and will get a better feel for it over the next week or so.

 

Here are some of the pics for the local board. All are reduced by 50%. This is with firmware 5.0.0.

 

Hik 3MP bullet, set for 1080p, default settings, bright daytime - it's way too dark in the shadows:

 

WDR works well on this camera in the daytime, and brightens up the shadows, but causes trouble at night, bringing out the horizontal lines that the Hik shows when low-light images get noisy. Here's WDR=47 (what it goes to when you set 50) in the bright sun:

 

After seeing the night images below, I reduced WDR and reduced contrast, which is what we did before WDR if the shadows were too dark. This helped the noise, and turning the noise reduction up to 100 (default is 50) cleared up more of the noise. Noise reduction softens the daytime image a little, but not as bad as the Dahua's default image. I may reduce sharpening next, as that highlights low light noise, but I'll check this out for a bit first.

 

This is WDR=21 (what it goes to when you set 20), contrast=25, noise reduction=100.

 

Night shot, with some local streetlights and house lights, default settings - not much noise, but

too dark and no detail when there's no direct illumination:

 

WDR=47; way too much noise:

 

And WDR=21, contrast=25, noise reduction=100 - more details in the shadows, some noise but not too bad.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Guest

[mroek 0]

Thanks for that link. Looks like noise is manageable with the Hiks also.

 

I still don't like the dynamic coloring of the text overlay on the Hik, but perhaps it will be possible to persuade them to add an option to disable that. In any case, it's not a deal breaker, so I'm going ahead with my order.

[Jino 0]

mroek > I had exactly the same problem with my cam... and I solve it :

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=37535&p=230379

 

I hope you could repair it too

[mroek 0]

On my camera, the issue is different, unfortunately. I have diconnected and reconnected all connectors, but it doesn't help.

But thanks anyway!