Testing Milestone - internet access issues

[voip-ninja 0]

So, in an effort to move away from my buggy Synology setup I have been giving Milestone XProtect Express a shot. I installed the software with the 30 day trial license, onto a spare Windows Home Server I had around (basically Windows Server 2003).

 

It is working really well other than a very frustrating problem so I'm wondering if anyone here has any ideas.

 

At install time, Milestone gives the option of specifying an internal and external IP address. I went ahead and did that. I also downloaded and installed Milestone Mobile server components.

 

Milestone Mobile is working - kind of.

 

On my home router I forwarded ports 8080 (the one I used for Milestone's primary install as port 80 was in use on the machine), 8081 (mobile http) and 8081 (secure http) to the box running Milestone. The Windows Firewall is disabled.

 

On the local network, everything works fine.... I can get all clients and services working when pointed to the local IP of the box. On the internet, pointing to my home router via DynDNS, I can get the Milestone Mobile App working on my iOS device.... however, I am unable to get the Milestone client app or web client working... and they use the same port as the iOS app!

 

Here's the real wrinkle. When I access the system from the internet (www.mynetworkip.com:8081) What I see come back in my browser is "waiting for 192.168.0.10:8081".... so what seems to be happening is that Milestone is telling the remote client to connect to it's NAT IP instead of the external IP.

 

Anyone have any ideas on this?

[voip-ninja 0]

OK, I think I've resolved it, but not 100% sure what did it.

 

I reinstalled the software, this time installing the "essentials version". Interestingly, even though I had deleted the previous version installation file, when this one installed my entire config was still on the box (nifty).

 

I had also uninstalled the 2.5a version of the mobile server and instead configured the 2.0a version that is bundled with the primary installer. A step that confused me before but appears to be necessary is that even though the server appears to be "up and running" (you can see it in the system tray, etc) it still needs to be added to the primary Milestone admin.

 

Once I did all of this, I could access the server using my dndns name. It's worth noting that Milestone is currently configured with my "external access" IP for internet access configured to be my static WAN IP, not my DNS name... not sure if Milestone can handle using the DNS name, perhaps that is also part of the problem.

 

I then updated Milestone Mobile server to 2.5a and things continue to work (although the access URL changed which is a bit odd, looks like they shortened and consolidated it to just "index").

 

Anyhow.

[mkkoskin 0]

What first caught my eye was the same port for mobile and secure http, you should try a different port as they're supposed to be different services.

 

The different version "fix" doesn't sound right either, but if it works, who cares right? You could still troubleshoot it a bit:

 

Did you check the port forwarding and firewalling?

It's always wiser to use IP-addresses than DNS-names, or if you must use DNS, configure your hosts-file to manage with them.

 

I dont have any experience with Milestone, so i can only try to help on general networking issues though.

[voip-ninja 0]

Sorry that was a typo. I am using 8041 for http and 8042 for https.

 

Ports definitely forwarded. The ios and android apps use the same ports and work over the internet. What was not working was the web client.

[Hitch 0]

Ugh! Reminds me of the issues that I had setting up my remote connection - although in hindsight my issue was pretty dumb.

 

I hope it's all nailed down for you now.

[voip-ninja 0]

Will be testing it out over the next couple of weeks before plunking down cashola on a license. For now I'm suitably impressed. Far far more capable than Surveillance Station with the only real problem that you need a real PC with some muscles (C2D CPU or better) to run it as the mobile server is pretty resource intensive.

[voip-ninja 0]

I'm also considering ExacQ. Anyone have any comments on that software?

[hardwired 0]

On the Milestone systems, I've had better luck with WAN access when leaving the remote address set to the same internal (LAN) IP- I think that setting has more to do with routing in a dual NIC machine where one NIC is LAN, and the other WAN connected (not sure though, but I had similar problems as you when I put in the WAN address).

 

As far as Exacq, I'd stick with Milestone... I have had far more inexplicable problems in Exacq than Milestone, and trying to do playback in Exacq with megapixel cameras over a slower WAN connection is like watching paint dry.

 

Exacq originally had somewhat of an advantage with a web client that did not need plugins, but now Milestone has that feature, as well.

[voip-ninja 0]

Hey Hardwired. Thanks for responding.

 

I actually installed a trial version of ExacQ and was not all that impressed with it. The ability to review captured video with both the dedicated client and mobile apps is much more powerful with Milestone. The one thing that was a huge plus with ExacQ was the ability to install on a Linux box (no Windows OS cost) as well as a dedicated OS X client (which I wish Milestone would do).

 

Now that I've tried Milestone, ExacQ and Synology I should probably put a post together about my impressions of all three.

 

I'm curious about what you said about not defining the WAN IP. Do you not check the box at install for "internet access" at all then? If that will work then I will definitely do it, as I won't have to worry about updating the WAN IP when it changes (I use DHCP and DynDNS). I don't need the dedicated client to work via the internet, just web and mobile device access.

 

Also, I'm trying to decide (and waffling) between getting the Essentials version or the Express version. From what I can tell the only difference is the ability to write to NAS shares with Express, and not sure that is a must have for me as the box I will be putting it on has 2TB of free space... NAS does have advantages though against data loss and other things... so still mulling it over.

 

Also, do you feel that the upgrade protection is worth it for Milestone? I know that they should be due to come out with a new version around September and I wouldn't want to miss out on a lot of new features if I purchased in August and a new version was about to come out.

 

Thanks

[ak357 0]

Hey Hardwired. Thanks for responding.

 

I actually installed a trial version of ExacQ and was not all that impressed with it. The ability to review captured video with both the dedicated client and mobile apps is much more powerful with Milestone. The one thing that was a huge plus with ExacQ was the ability to install on a Linux box (no Windows OS cost) as well as a dedicated OS X client (which I wish Milestone would do).

 

Now that I've tried Milestone, ExacQ and Synology I should probably put a post together about my impressions of all three.

 

I'm curious about what you said about not defining the WAN IP. Do you not check the box at install for "internet access" at all then? If that will work then I will definitely do it, as I won't have to worry about updating the WAN IP when it changes (I use DHCP and DynDNS). I don't need the dedicated client to work via the internet, just web and mobile device access.

 

Also, I'm trying to decide (and waffling) between getting the Essentials version or the Express version. From what I can tell the only difference is the ability to write to NAS shares with Express, and not sure that is a must have for me as the box I will be putting it on has 2TB of free space... NAS does have advantages though against data loss and other things... so still mulling it over.

 

Also, do you feel that the upgrade protection is worth it for Milestone? I know that they should be due to come out with a new version around September and I wouldn't want to miss out on a lot of new features if I purchased in August and a new version was about to come out.

 

Thanks

have u try Avigilon ?

go and get v5

come with 30 days trial lic

[voip-ninja 0]

I would try it but SNV-5080R is not supported yet. Also quite a lot of fuzziness on costs, upgrade/maintenance fees etc, compared to others.

[hardwired 0]

I'm curious about what you said about not defining the WAN IP. Do you not check the box at install for "internet access" at all then?

As I recall, I checked that field, and then ended up putting the LAN IP in that field (WAN address) as well, and that worked. I'll check again when I have access to one of those systems.

Also, I'm trying to decide (and waffling) between getting the Essentials version or the Express version. From what I can tell the only difference is the ability to write to NAS shares with Express, and not sure that is a must have for me as the box I will be putting it on has 2TB of free space... NAS does have advantages though against data loss and other things... so still mulling it over.

There is also a higher camera count in Express, (48, instead of 26), and third-party integration, but that's not usually part of a smaller system, anyway. For more storage, if you can setup your NAS as a iSCSI target, you can expand storage that way (looks like local storage to Windows).

 

Also, do you feel that the upgrade protection is worth it for Milestone? I know that they should be due to come out with a new version around September and I wouldn't want to miss out on a lot of new features if I purchased in August and a new version was about to come out.

 

Thanks

That's sort of a personal decision, but if you go with Essentials, it is pretty cheap (I have had a couple of customers that didn't get the PMA re-purchase the newer version to get new features).

 

If you have the time, you might try a demo of Avigilon, they do list the non-IR SNV-5080 as supported, you might get lucky. I place it's useability and features a bit above Milestone.

[voip-ninja 0]

Ok thanks again for the info. When ExacQ supported the SNV5080 but not the 5080R it would not work. I will see with Avigilon if i am luckier. How does one get a demo?

 

Also what are minimum specs like on Avigilon?

 

I am going to run this on a Windows Home Server (HP EX495) that I've upgraded to a 2.94ghz C2D CPU and 4GB of RAM. Down the line I might reload it with Windows Server 2008 (I would not be able to use iSCSI till then since Server 2003 doesn't support iSCSI targets that I'm aware of).

[buellwinkle 0]

I was looking at the Avigilon videos, a must for those that are considering it, it looks similar to ACTi NVR3 but NVR3 has a cleaner look, but most features and the way it works appears similar. The advantage that Avigilon has is their pixel and thumbnail search. I'm trying to figure out how I would personally use those searches and not sure. The pixel search makes sense if you are covering a large area and want to find motion detect within a part of your image, I get it, just don't know how I would use it. The thumbnail search seems more useful, not sure it's more useful than just scrubbing the timeline. Synology has search features to, but have not tried them yet.

 

http://avigilon.com/support-and-downloads/for-software/training-and-how-to-videos/

 

What features are in Avigilon that are not in Milestone? I haven't used it in a while so not sure. Also, how do the smartphone app compare, how do the web clients compare. Avigilon says web client only works with IE, does the Milestone work with other browsers, Macs?

[ak357 0]

I will see with Avigilon if i am luckier. How does one get a demo?

 

Also what are minimum specs like on Avigilon?

Get ACC5 server file from website

start installations

u will get choice to install as 30 days demo

pick Enterprise version

Enjoy

[voip-ninja 0]

Milestone web server does not require plugins and works with all browsers I have tried including Safari. Mobile apps are pretty solid but the mobile server did crash once which left an android client showing a static image till I refreshed it. All in all the Milestone mobile apps are the best I've seen. The ability to show 'recent events' for recordings as well as the playback with PIP is pretty nice. Very interested in seeing how Avigilon compares. The ExacQ mobile apps are pretty weak compared to milestone especially with reviewing recorded video.

[voip-ninja 0]

I will see with Avigilon if i am luckier. How does one get a demo?

 

Also what are minimum specs like on Avigilon?

Get ACC5 server file from website

start installations

u will get choice to install as 30 days demo

pick Enterprise version

Enjoy

 

Thanks Alex! Is enterprise required for the demo? I have a small 4 cam setup that would not grow to more than 8 cams. What's the best version for purchase in a small home/retail environment?

[buellwinkle 0]

The different editions are here so I would think Core would meet your needs as it supports up to 24 cameras.

 

http://avigilon.com/products/avigilon-control-center/editions/

[ak357 0]

 

Thanks Alex! Is enterprise required for the demo? I have a small 4 cam setup that would not grow to more than 8 cams. What's the best version for purchase in a small home/retail environment?

Just keep in mind that Core only has 2 client connections to server

[hardwired 0]

Ok thanks again for the info. When ExacQ supported the SNV5080 but not the 5080R it would not work. I will see with Avigilon if i am luckier. How does one get a demo?

http://avigilon.com/support-and-downloads/for-software/software-updates-and-downloads/, you need Server 5.0, and Gateway 5.0, to start (the server installer also puts the client on the machine you are installing it on, you'll need the Client 5.0 on other machines, or use the Web client (which is the best web client I have seen, BTW, although you need IE with plugins for it).

 

Also what are minimum specs like on Avigilon?

 

I am going to run this on a Windows Home Server (HP EX495) that I've upgraded to a 2.94ghz C2D CPU and 4GB of RAM. Down the line I might reload it with Windows Server 2008 (I would not be able to use iSCSI till then since Server 2003 doesn't support iSCSI targets that I'm aware of).

Depends on how many cameras, and how many clients at a time (especially mobile clients, the server app is as light as Exacq, but it loads down a lot when transcoding for the mobile client). A small number of cameras should be fine with your setup.

 

As far as iSCSI, on the server side, you just need an iSCSI initiator, which has been supported since XP, you just need the storage to be supported as a target.

[voip-ninja 0]

 

Thanks Alex! Is enterprise required for the demo? I have a small 4 cam setup that would not grow to more than 8 cams. What's the best version for purchase in a small home/retail environment?

Just keep in mind that Core only has 2 client connections to server

 

Ah. That could be a bit of a problem but I doubt I would spring for the enterprise version so I will give core a try. Normally I have a tablet up and displaying the cams 24/7 and then randomly access via client, web browser or another mobile device. Milestone gives five client connections with the essentials version.

[voip-ninja 0]

Ok thanks again for the info. When ExacQ supported the SNV5080 but not the 5080R it would not work. I will see with Avigilon if i am luckier. How does one get a demo?

http://avigilon.com/support-and-downloads/for-software/software-updates-and-downloads/, you need Server 5.0, and Gateway 5.0, to start (the server installer also puts the client on the machine you are installing it on, you'll need the Client 5.0 on other machines, or use the Web client (which is the best web client I have seen, BTW, although you need IE with plugins for it).

 

Also what are minimum specs like on Avigilon?

 

I am going to run this on a Windows Home Server (HP EX495) that I've upgraded to a 2.94ghz C2D CPU and 4GB of RAM. Down the line I might reload it with Windows Server 2008 (I would not be able to use iSCSI till then since Server 2003 doesn't support iSCSI targets that I'm aware of).

Depends on how many cameras, and how many clients at a time (especially mobile clients, the server app is as light as Exacq, but it loads down a lot when transcoding for the mobile client). A small number of cameras should be fine with your setup.

 

As far as iSCSI, on the server side, you just need an iSCSI initiator, which has been supported since XP, you just need the storage to be supported as a target.

 

Thanks again for all of the info. If you do get a definitive answer on how the Internet setup is being done on your installs I would love to get the details. My only concern is that I use DynDNS and don't want to have to reconfigure the server every time my WAN IP changes.

[hardwired 0]

What features are in Avigilon that are not in Milestone? I haven't used it in a while so not sure. Also, how do the smartphone app compare, how do the web clients compare. Avigilon says web client only works with IE, does the Milestone work with other browsers, Macs?

Probably the biggest difference in Avigilon is that it dynamically re-samples the image resolution to the client to minimize bandwidth, and get the best framerate possible. You can adjust the resolution in Milestone (and should, in Milestone's remote software), it comes set at trying to send full resolution images, an most connections and video cards choke on that. Setting the resolution a little lower in the client improves things dramatically).

[hardwired 0]

 

Thanks Alex! Is enterprise required for the demo? I have a small 4 cam setup that would not grow to more than 8 cams. What's the best version for purchase in a small home/retail environment?

Just keep in mind that Core only has 2 client connections to server

 

Ah. That could be a bit of a problem but I doubt I would spring for the enterprise version so I will give core a try. Normally I have a tablet up and displaying the cams 24/7 and then randomly access via client, web browser or another mobile device. Milestone gives five client connections with the essentials version.

In the previous version, mobile client connections did not count against the concurrent connection limit, not sure in 5.0, though.

 

There is also the "Standard" version, which allows 5 concurrent connections.

[voip-ninja 0]

Neato. I'm downloading it now, the first question is if it will work with the 5080R cams, since if not that's a deal breaker. I have no plans to replace those anytime soon.