custom system, expert advise needed

[rice 0]

Hi everyone. I have decided to get a surveillance system for my property. 2 buildings located about 300 feet apart. I am going big with the cabling but using a cheap system for now. I intend to get all of the bugs worked out before i spend some big bucks on good cameras and a good dvr. so for now its the svat 11025 8 camera system. i will not be using the cables that come with the system. and ip cameras are not an option because of terrible rural internet.

 

So there is the house and the shop about 300 feet apart, 4 cameras each. dvr will be in the house. I have a conduit in the ground between the 2 buildings. there will be a power supply in the shop and in the house, not using the ones that come with the cameras. so camera 1-4 in the house will be short runs of siamese, no problem. but the 4 runs out to the shop will be about 350'-400'. so i plan to come off the dvr with rg6 to the shop, then switch to 59 siamese via some coax couplings and pick up 12v from the power supply in the shop. so the cable run might be 400', but the 12 is less than 100'. does anyone foresee any potential problems with this???

 

The next thing is the monitors... I plan to use 2 tv's in the house and one in the shop, all via coax with the bnc out on the dvr. so the plan is to come off the dvr to a 3 way coax splitter, then feed all 3 monitors with rg6. the 2 in the house are about 50 feet but the one in the shop will be 350 feet. any suggestions? is there a powered splitter that might work for this? or do you think it will work with no added power.

 

Thanks in advance for your opinions...

[SectorSecurity 0]

I don't see the need for the switch from RG6 to RG59, pick one and stick with it the whole way, no need to add failure points trying to go between the two.

 

Also I don't see why IP would be excluded due to internet, as it sounds like you are only worried about local viewing, which would be done all via your internal network so no internet involved.

 

As far as power are we talking 12VDC or 24VAC?

 

I have not tried using the BNC out through a coax splitter, should work, but using the coax in on the TV would require an RF modulator, use the RCA in (Yellow video port)

[rice 0]

Thanks for the input...

 

Ther reason for the switch from RG6 to coax is because when i run underground to the shop (300+ feet), i will not be bringing power with it. the siamese will start at the power supply in the shop so that the power is only about 50-100 feet. so the rg6 will be joined to the siamese anfter running 300 feet. i have a power supply in the house for the house cameras and one in the shop for the shop cameras. cameras are 12v. i will be using all compression fittings, we have all the crimpers.

 

as for the monitors... i am only concerned with signal loss on the long feed to the monitor in the shop. I will be using the f-type to rca at the monitors. do you think that 350 feet is too long from the dvr to monitor over coax through a splitter?

 

Thanks again

[SectorSecurity 0]

Never tried pushing it that far so I can't say, you could add a video quad in the shop and add a 'T' BNC connector to each camera, this would allow you to run the cameras back to the DVR and to the quad, the quad would let you output all 4 ch to a TV.

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. why not keep it all simple ..... 4 way house and 4 way shop.

 

 

you will have problems mixing RG6 with RG59. at that distance cat5 would be much better.

 

then there is the problem of monitors at that distance. also two lots of power to one system can create power phase.

 

 

I am going big with the cabling but using a cheap system for now

 

 

cat5 cat6 that's going big........ gives you option to go IP MP cameras later

[Kawboy12R 0]

Why avoid cat 5 and baluns? Even if IP cams aren't in the works for now, baluns will push analog video a long way and won't force you to stay with analog in the future. Seems like an obvious choice to me. The 350 feet might be a small issue for IP, but 100m isn't far off and will most likely work if you put a switch at either end of the big run in the future. Sounds like it might be under anyway.

[rice 0]

Hi Tom, do you know why switching from rg6 to 59 will be a problem? i am running 300' of rg6 then bnc, bnc coupling, then rg59. there should'nt be much loss with the terminations but maybe you are thinking of something that i am not aware of.

 

and as far as networking, i simply dont want anything else on my lan, we have 5 computers, 4 printers, and less than 1meg internet. i just want an offline system...

[tomcctv 190]

switching from rg6 to 59

 

 

 

Hi rg6 is not for CCTV ..... best just having cable run without connectors.

 

 

plus your distance cat5 or 6 is best with baluns.

 

 

 

and as far as networking, i simply dont want anything else on my lan, we have 5 computers, 4 printers, and less than 1meg internet. i just want an offline system...

 

 

can install dedicated network so no impact on your existing LAN setup

[rice 0]

Hi Tom, These baluns, they simply allow you to switch from cat 5 to coax? so can i put one of these at either end of a cat 5 cable and effectively turn that cat 5 cable to a coax? does this only work for camera feeds or do the baluns work for any signal? like dvr to monitor? or even satelite dish to receiver? and how far do you figure i could run a cat 5 with one of these at either end? Thanks for your input and help, i might just need to send you a case of beer...

 

I have not run any cable yet and would actually prefer to run cat 5, easier to pull and have many boxes of it kicking around. I just want to make sure that i can get all of the cameras hardwired to one dvr, and all of the monitors coming off of that same dvr. Once everything has been working for 6 months or a year then i can simply get rid the cheap cameras, and bolt on something more permanent.

[rice 0]

spent a little bit of time looking into baluns. looks to me like i would be introducing 16 more little devices that could fail?

[tomcctv 190]

spent a little bit of time looking into baluns. looks to me like i would be introducing 16 more little devices that could fail?

 

 

Buy quality and they don't fail.

 

For the distance you are going cat5 is standard practice.

 

You will have problems mixing coax types

[rice 0]

Well... You have convinced me to not use the RG6. But I'm not sold on the cat5. These Baluns only use 1 twisted pair, and no shield??? I think I'm going to use all copper 59 the whole way. And RG6 for the monitors with a powered BNC splitter. I get that cat5 is the hot thing, but for what I want, I don't see any added value... For the cameras the 59 should be fine for the 400 foot runs

[tomcctv 190]

Well... You have convinced me to not use the RG6

 

 

And RG6 for the monitors with a powered BNC splitter

 

 

DONT use rg6.

 

 

 

I get that cat5 is the hot thing, but for what I want, I don't see any added value...

 

 

its not a hot thing ....... its the right cable for that distance

 

 

I don't see any added value...

 

 

two monitors plus 4 cameras your distance you will need 2.400 ft of cable (400 each run) and also some boosters.

 

 

CAT5 or 6 ........ to do same distance and have more control you only need 800 ft of cat5

1 x 400ft run for cameras (run 4 cameras on 1 cable) 1 x 400ft run for monitors and mouse control.

 

so the value is quicker install ....... less cable costs........ and much better option when you install a better system later

[rice 0]

Hi Tom, Soo.... because of you i am going to pull in some extra cat 5. I had already planned to pull in 2 for future but now im pulling 4. I am also pulling in 3 rg6 and 4 59 copper. so we will see how it goes. i will let you know some time next week how it all works, my guys are going to do the big pull in monday. If the coax signal is brutal then i will get all the cat 5 stuff working and send you a case of beer, my word.

[hardwired 0]

Keep in mind that there are different types of RG6, the one most commonly found is designed for cable TV/Satellite use, (often marked as Quad shield, or CATV/SAT, etc), and has a foil shield with a copper covered steel center conductor. This cable is unsuitable for CCTV use. It will pick up interference very easily, and the signal loss is very high.

 

RG6 (or RG59, for that matter) that is suitable for CCTV has a solid copper core and a copper braid shield with at least 95% coverage. It's harder to find, and much more expensive, due to the amount of copper in the wire.

 

This problem also exists with RG59, but suitable CCTV RG59 is easier to find than the correct RG6.

[rice 0]

Thanks for all of the help. So we installed a cat5 feed to the shop and to each camera. got them hooked up to the coax for now. all cameras are working fine but i can now see why people would recommend megapixel cameras over the 600 tvliners. All of the monitors are working fine. Ended up using a 1 to 8 bnc splitter to feed the monitors. The one in the shop has some lines that travel up the screen but i assume this is because of a ground loop, im going to try an isolater as soon as i find one. I still have a few questions for you guys....

 

1. This svat system was just to get my feet wet, now im looking for a descent DVR. What is the big diffrence between the 2-3 hundred buckers and the big dollar ones? I understand that the high end dvrs will record in higher quality but is the live video viewed on the monitors any better?

 

2. If a cheap camera is exposed to -20 or -30c, will it just stop working and then start again as the temp rises? or will it be no more good? can i realistically expect the manufactures spec of -10c?

 

3. The lines that travel up the screen in the shop, does this sound like a possible ground loop issue to you guys?

 

Thanks again for all of your help