Sharing My Experience Having IP Cameras Installed at My Home

[CamB 0]

I've been visiting this forum quite a bit for the past couple of months as I was researching how to go about having cameras installed at my homes. My intent is to share with forum members my observations, experience, and lessons learned so that others in the same boat can benefit from it.

 

Background

I travel quite a bit so want to keep an eye on my house while I'm away, so I decided to get some good quality IP cameras. Spent time on this forum, researching brands, and started to identify installers to come out to do a job walk.

 

Experience Choosing an Installer

Was not easy to find an installer. The process was like buying a mattress. Each installer seemed to have 1 or 2 brands they push and that's it. Pricing was all over the board. Turnkey solution for 3-4 cameras ranged from $5,000 to $35,000. The top cameras companies recommended some local installers, but most of these only focused on commercial installs. Then I turned to Yelp to find someone that was recommended by a commercial installation company.

 

Experience with my Installer

Really friendly and responsive during the sales process. Not such a good experience after my deposit. Here's why:

- Always late (not a couple of minutes late, but like 4 hours late)

- Took double the amount of visits to install than quoted. Reasons being (bad Cat6 line, something wrong with the NVR, etc)

- Did not provide any training on the system and documentation of how to setup remote viewing if the cameras

- Wants to charge several hundred dollars to get remote viewing working again after router was reset by ISP even though I bought 10 post installation service hours

 

Lessons Learned

- Start with a good IP camera company such as Axis, Avigilon, Acti and ask for recommended resellers/installers in the area

- Check references

- Get all software/hardware license information in case you have to go directly to vendor for help

- Be very specific in the contract terms about contractor penalties for being late, not meeting deadlines, spell out hours for training, get documentation of wiring, installation, and router setup

 

I'm not sure how I could have prevented some of the problems I ran into with this installer. There just don't seem to be many good options for installing high end cameras at your home. With these small companies, there is not much you can do other than suck it up and hire someone else that can get things working for you.

[buellwinkle 0]

It's like finding contractors to build a house, the honeymoon is over when the contract is signed.

 

I've dealt with a lot of security companies and for the most part, they are the worst. We've gone through so many, it's sad. We had one had 2 guys spend an entire week trying to get an electric strike to work. We had one guy, different company spend a month trying to configure a group of cameras and after a month he didn't even have the right time set on the camera and couldn't figure out how to access the camera remotely, forget about recording or having the lenses in focus. I had a router hang, told the property manager that I need someone to go there and reset it. They sent someone out there for a few hours and came back and said the router is bad. So out of frustration I drove over and unplugged the router, plugged it back in and all was good.

 

So I feel your pain. BTW, not talking about the sharp people here like thewireguys, just the companies we hire

[Numb-nuts 1]

Di you buy the cameras from the installer or the business that recommended him? Installers by the nature of their work are sometimes late because if a job has issues they have to stay with it and that can make them late. I presume you are annoyed that he didn't notify you he'd be late or did he?

 

I too have occasionally had issues with bad cat5 or cat6 cables and yes its better that he replace it in the original instal than patch it up the way some installers might.

 

I obviously can't comment on the extra money for setting up your internet again as I don't know his terms and conditions, but if it was because the ISP provided a new router, then it's hardly his fault and it would be reasonable that he be paid for a return to redo the work he previously completed. All he has to sell s his time and skill, he needs to be paid for his time especially when it's not his fault.

 

I charge my clients after they get a router replaced or upgraded etc, why should it be my responsibility to redo work I originally completed correctly? NO when I have had to do this, my clients have all of them not resented paying they realize I am not to blame and I need to charge for my time. Its the same as when vandals damage equipment, you can't expect the warranty to cover that and when the installer comes out to repair he can't be expected to make repairs for nothing.

 

Some customers don't immediately understand these issues until it is explained to them. After that it's no longer such an issue.

It's hard enough making a living when idiots are selling inventory over the internet at virtually cost price and selling it as DIY stuff.

 

This is not said to make you feel badly or to criticize you, just to explain from the installers point of view. He should have had the courtesy to let you know he'd be later though, thats bad manners in my opinion.

 

Hope this has helped to take the sting out of your experience just a little.

 

 

added update

Of course there are recently a lot of Johnny come lately installers who are 'have a go hero's' rather than trained technicians and they sell their work cheap, some people looking for a cheap deal fall right into the trap and hire hem then things like spending a month tryng to figure out the DVR setup and remote viewing happen. A trained and experienced installer would have al the cameras focused and directed, the dVR setup is usually half a day at the most maybe a whole day for 32 or more cameras with PIR triggers etc. Remote setup should be done within a half day maximum. Many of the jobs I've dome this year are completing the jobs some of these DIY monkeys have abandoned

 

I started out as a DIYer but dedicated myself to training and being trained. Now I'm a trained monkey

[shockwave199 0]

For a home install, unless you're a totally hands off type, this is actually a great and rewarding project to take on yourself. It's not easy, but boxed IP systems are making it easier and easier to get good quality results. Even well done analog is still perfectly fine. Study here, purchase wisely, and install it yourself wisely. Nobody will care about your end results more than you, so it's good to know your system inside and out. That comes from hands on install. I would sooner commit to installing a cctv system in my home myself than commit to hanging freakin drapes for the wife. Would you believe that cctv install is easier! LOL! Installing your own system teaches you so much that by proxy, you become a very knowledgeable shopper, should you need to hire someone else. I can't remember when I hired out a job for anything home improvement wise that I was actually satisfied with. Really good technicians are very, very hard to come by.

[CamB 0]

Numb-nuts,

 

I purchased a turnkey installation from the installer. I paid about $15K to have 3 cameras installed at 2 homes. These cameras retail for $300-400 each. Installation included Cat 6 cabling, a desktop used to run as a VMS, VMS software. I paid to have all configuration done, remote viewing, alerts, fine tuning of cameras, and 10 hours of post installation support.

 

- Fine tuning of the cameras is not done. No training or documentation of the system was done.

- Extra charge for troubleshooting of remote viewing not working after power outage and setup should not be $500 and any time should be put against available 10 hours of post installation support.

- My other router had to be reset when I was trying to figure out why the system went down. Turns out the VMS software was not activated like I was told it was. So that isn't my fault.

- Everyone runs late once in a while, but when you are late 2-4 hours, call 5 minutes before you are supposed to come every single time or cancel the night before is just wrong. I have to take time off of work to be there. I don't get a discount if he runs late...causing me to be late for work. I don't think it is right for him to be nickel and diming me when I did not give him a hard time for always being late and wasting my time.

 

I am all for paying a fair price for the work that needs to be done and am a very reasonable person, but I don't like to feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I will get this problem fixed and will pay another installer recommended by the camera company to have this fixed. I would rather pay more to have someone else reset everything up than to give this installer another dime.

[MR2 0]

Numb-nuts,

 

I paid about $15K to have 3 cameras installed at 2 homes. These cameras retail for $300-400 each. Installation included Cat 6 cabling, a desktop used to run as a VMS, VMS software. I paid to have all configuration done, remote viewing, alerts, fine tuning of cameras, and 10 hours of post installation support.

 

 

I am all for paying a fair price for the work that needs to be done and am a very reasonable person, but I don't like to feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I will get this problem fixed and will pay another installer recommended by the camera company to have this fixed. I would rather pay more to have someone else reset everything up than to give this installer another dime.

 

you're nuts!

 

my home two camera system cost $1k and it does all that...

[rayt 0]

Numb-nuts,

 

I purchased a turnkey installation from the installer. I paid about $15K to have 3 cameras installed at 2 homes. These cameras retail for $300-400 each. Installation included Cat 6 cabling, a desktop used to run as a VMS, VMS software. I paid to have all configuration done, remote viewing, alerts, fine tuning of cameras, and 10 hours of post installation support.

 

- Fine tuning of the cameras is not done. No training or documentation of the system was done.

- Extra charge for troubleshooting of remote viewing not working after power outage and setup should not be $500 and any time should be put against available 10 hours of post installation support.

- My other router had to be reset when I was trying to figure out why the system went down. Turns out the VMS software was not activated like I was told it was. So that isn't my fault.

- Everyone runs late once in a while, but when you are late 2-4 hours, call 5 minutes before you are supposed to come every single time or cancel the night before is just wrong. I have to take time off of work to be there. I don't get a discount if he runs late...causing me to be late for work. I don't think it is right for him to be nickel and diming me when I did not give him a hard time for always being late and wasting my time.

 

I am all for paying a fair price for the work that needs to be done and am a very reasonable person, but I don't like to feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I will get this problem fixed and will pay another installer recommended by the camera company to have this fixed. I would rather pay more to have someone else reset everything up than to give this installer another dime.

 

holy sh*t, 15k? the guys better have been running cat 6 through 50 ft of solid concrete.

 

all that money paid, they could have given you a UPS that probably costs a hundred bucks to keep the system powered during short outages.

 

i'm not in the business, i'm a handy dandy man with stuff, and if i paid 15k, i better be getting atleast half of that in cost of equipment.

[voip-ninja 0]

$15,000 for 4 cams? Wow. What cams did you put in? Your last posts on this subject indicated you had quotes of $5000 or so for four outdoor cams (some 2 MP) which seems much more reasonable.

 

I have four pretty good Axis and Samsung cams that I bought myself (from some of those internet nut jobs selling at or near cost)... ran my own CAT5E for the camera drops.Use a smal micro-server with 1.5TB of storage space and paid for some licenses through a re-seller for a commercial CCTV software package. Set up my own router (not hard).

 

My total out of pocket for the whole thing, maybe $2,750.

 

As someone else mentioned this is not an insurmountable DIY. I'm sure I would hire an installer for a larger job, primarily to speed things along but no way would I pay that kind of money for a few cams.

 

The story you tell is why contractors in general have a bad reputation. Unfortunately yours happened to be in the security business.

[buellwinkle 0]

Back then I suggested just buying the cameras and paying an electrician to run the cat5 and install the cameras and then hiring some network camera hot shot to aim/focus/configure the cameras, would have a lot, lot less and probably less aggravation. BTW, we don't even pay that much for a large local security company to install 4 Mobotix D14 cameras ($1,500 each just for the cameras).

[Hitch 0]

Cam - Thanks for sharing your experience. My parents had a lot of trouble with their install as well. The guy would show up late, not show up at all, would not respond for several days, etc. It was a real pain in the arse. Fortunately, the system did finally get up and running. Also, the hardware installed was good quality stuff, so it continues to work properly.

 

Hope you get your systems up and running without too much more trouble.

[jdoggg1 0]

I hope that was a typo and you meant to say $1.5k or 30x$400 cameras.

 

Everything below is from the perspective of a residential install:

 

I have to say, I'm very glad I found this forum. I've learned a lot and it's the largest reason i was able to do my own installation successfully on the first attempt.

 

Even if you're not a DIY, I strongly suggest anyone willing to spend any amount of time on forums learn the basics of doing the software-side of IP cameras on their own. If you can't do your own port forwarding, DNS setup, and surveillance software adjustments, it may be a nightmare if things get screwy and you're at the mercy of a potentially flaky installer.

 

I'd say if the budget is there, go with an installer (just know the basics of what he's doing or SHOULD be doing). If you're on a shoestring budget like I was, give it a shot yourself. You may screw up at first, but you'll learn a TON in the process!

[CamB 0]

@jdoggg1 - Don't think I was as clear as I could have been. $15K was to have the same installation at two homes. 3 cameras at each home, server at each home, etc. Cameras show list price of $300-400 on reseller sites, but I'm sure my installer had to mark it up to make some money...which I'm fine with. I wanted to pay a price we were both comfortable with so he would take the time to do a good job and support me when things aren't working. Unfortunately, things didn't turn out the way I had hoped.

 

@buellwinkle - Totally agree that the DIY would have been much cheaper and I would have learned a lot that would help me with supporting the systems in the future. However, because I travel so much for work, I just didn't have the time to be tinkering around with this...so decided to fork over the money for a "professional" to give me a turnkey installation that he would support.

[voip-ninja 0]

$7500 still sounds very high for a 3 camera install (per location).

 

Let's say that the materials the installer needed cost $2000 for the installation. That still leaves a HUGE profit for him of $5500.

 

Let's say the install took him a solid 40 hours (even though realistically it should have taken perhaps 4-8 if he had someone else do the wiring)... that's still a rate of over $100 per hour before costs (vehicle costs, etc).

 

The problem is, when contractors get greedy, as this guy clearly is, it gives the entire profession a bad name.

 

The fact that he won't fix your problems with ISP etc and consume your 10 hours of "post install support" to do it is absolutely inexcusable.

 

Personally I'd take the clown to small claims court.

 

You also still haven't told us which specific model cams and NVR he installed, which would give a better idea of how fair or un-fair your deal was.

[buellwinkle 0]

That's been my holly grail too, LOL, finding someone that will support it. I don't have time to do it, but when the contractor fails, I'm the one that has to go in and cleanup the mess or spend time with them to make sure it's right which many times takes longer.

[CamB 0]

So...after having my ISP come and bring me a new modem/router, I set everything up again, rebooted the router and miraculously, everything just started working. Awesome...

[buellwinkle 0]

These days routers don't seem to last that long but sometimes you get lucky.