IP Cable run

[Evo 0]

Hi there,

 

I have an issue where someone wants a IP camera placed on their front gate to their home. The only issue is that the driveway is over 800 meters long. They are looking to have cabling put down their driveway to install lighting so I thought I could piggy back on that run. Question is can I run Ethernet cable along that length? if we say 900 meters and I use extenders will that be enough? Do the extenders need to be powered or are they stand alone.

 

Cheers

[buellwinkle 0]

There's no known limit to Ethernet as long as you have enough money, anything is possible. My biggest run is 1,600', what is that, about 500m? By itself, an Ethernet cable can only be 100M long. To make it longer, we used Cat6 shielded burial grade cable and Ethernet extenders and it works great. There's different brands, I don't have the brand name we used with me but if you are having trouble finding them, PM me and I'll look up the brand we used.

 

Don't know what your skills are, but I would put it in conduit and have a pull box every 100'. The reason is you don't want a mole, gopher, ground squirrel, rat, to chew the cable and ruin a lot of work and you need pull boxes because the 22awg wire in Cat6 is very thin and if you pull too hard you can damage the cable. You can pull it as you lay the conduit or you can pull 100' at a time, just use cable lube.

[voip-ninja 0]

Also, if the homeowner is willing to eat the cost, point out that it makes sense to do two runs as long as it's open. Helluva lot easier to have a spare cable in there if something goes wrong x years down the road.

 

I agree about trying to do some kind of conduit access, 800 meters is a seriously long run to do.

[icamera 0]

Oversize the conduit. Always easier to pull in larger conduit.

 

Try to eliminate any 90 degree angles though. The more turns in conduit the harder it is to run wire in my experience.

 

Also, if the homeowner is willing to eat the cost, point out that it makes sense to do two runs as long as it's open. Helluva lot easier to have a spare cable in there if something goes wrong x years down the road.

 

I agree about trying to do some kind of conduit access, 800 meters is a seriously long run to do.

[turbo v6 camaro 0]

i would recommend fiber and media converter(s) (can have fiber at the house so you only need one)

 

lot less headace with that....

 

 

seem they have money so shouldn't be an issue.

 

I use the HP 1900 switch ($300) it has 4 pot for SFPs and you can put a fiber one in there.

 

just a 6 strand multi-mode will do, 2000 meters for 100mb

[turbo v6 camaro 0]

http://www.industrialnetworking.com/Manufacturers/OCC-Multimode-50-Micron-OM3-Fiber-Cable/OCC-Fiber-Optic-Cable-DX002DALT9QR?whence=

 

about 1100 for 3000 feet (914m)

 

you will need connectors and such but those are cheap. the media converter can run from 50-400

 

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Fiber-Ethernet-Converter-MCM110SC2/dp/B002Q0WMWQ

 

http://www.newegg.com/Network-Transceivers/SubCategory/ID-365

 

look around its there,

 

(im a network tech by trade)

 

also with fiber no risk of lighting surging into the house, and no risk of interferance from the power line, and minimal risk of someone taping the line

 

this also mean you can piggy back on the conduit for the power cost saving there ! and you may be able to pull it with the power wire, time and cost savings there also

 

with cat 5 route 8 repeaters is a bit much and you could run into jitter issues.

[SportPlumber 0]

+1 on the fiber. Only way to go that far reliably.

 

Well depending on your environment, you could go RF really inexpensively with UBNT. But the fiber would be the optimum choice.

[jmcu 0]

Veracity has some nice extenders

http://www.veracityglobal.com/products/ethernet-and-poe-extension.aspx

 

They require POE but if the camera does not take it,

they have a lite that doesn't send POE to the camera that you use on the last run.

 

They claim they can go up to 2 KM with the Max.

But they are not cheap...

[ssmith10pn 0]

There is no way I would run cable that far. it's a huge lightening rod.

 

Either Glass or wireless.

[turbo v6 camaro 0]

also they do make T1 extends that go 2 miles, campus pair gains they are called, the set up a hdsl link between them but they cost about $800 for a pair and about $200 for the cards, and you can order them with 10mb Ethernet connections, but i dont think a T1 will support a modern camera well......

 

 

Fiber is your best bet on this

[Evo 0]

Wow.

 

Great feed back. I need to digest all the comments and research and I will respond with more questions. Money is not really a issue. The quality must be there. Im new to the industry and have landed some really big deals already so really having to cope with a 90 degree learning curve. Im looking to lay cable to light the whole driveway along with IP cameras and access control at the front gate. Im thinking fingerprint, fob, or swipe. Its a major job for me, Already installed 4 3mb ip cams at the house and this is next stage.

 

My biggest headache so far is that I couldn't set up remote access to the cams as they have 8 routers at the house using BT ADSL. No user names or passwords and also I don't know where the first point of access is to the house. not good but that's a different topic lol

[RelaxIN 0]

Interesting.... I've never used an extender beyond 200 meters with confidence... just my .2

[turbo v6 camaro 0]

Wow.

 

Great feed back. I need to digest all the comments and research and I will respond with more questions. Money is not really a issue. The quality must be there. Im new to the industry and have landed some really big deals already so really having to cope with a 90 degree learning curve. Im looking to lay cable to light the whole driveway along with IP cameras and access control at the front gate. Im thinking fingerprint, fob, or swipe. Its a major job for me, Already installed 4 3mb ip cams at the house and this is next stage.

 

My biggest headache so far is that I couldn't set up remote access to the cams as they have 8 routers at the house using BT ADSL. No user names or passwords and also I don't know where the first point of access is to the house. not good but that's a different topic lol

8 routers? holly crap. what brand? or they running router protcol or do they have 8 internet connections?

 

i'm good with cisco and Junipers. if you need some commands.

 

to find the first router, you need to do a trace route, open a command prompt and do

tracert www.google.com

 

can also do (little faster, but dont always work)

pathping www.google.com

 

the will are least give you a starting point.

 

if you want reliable you want fiber, it sounds like you may have a lot of stuff up there, so i would get a 6 or even 12 strand fiber up there, 2 strands make one circuit! (tx and rx)

 

6 strand would give you 3 circuits and 12 6 circuits

[buellwinkle 0]

What are you using for access control? Big job if you never done it before. The lightning comment is hilarious, like cable buried in the ground is going to attract lightning, what about all the utility cables in all the streets. The camera will easily draw lighting first as they usually are mounted high and stick out.

[turbo v6 camaro 0]

What are you using for access control? Big job if you never done it before. The lightning comment is hilarious, like cable buried in the ground is going to attract lightning, what about all the utility cables in all the streets. The camera will easily draw lighting first as they usually are mounted high and stick out.

utility cables such as phone and cable lines have lightning arestors on them, its a little plug that plugs into the cable/phone block and burns out if over voltage or amps come along

 

power companies have way to minimize lighting affects too, ever notice nearly every transformer has a LARGE ground wire?

 

a 800m copper cable in the ground is asking for troubles !!

 

the cable does not attract it but it if strikes near where the cable is the power will travel down the line and destroy stuff/cause fires. electricity takes the path of least resistance, and copper is way more conductive than dirt!!

 

have you had lighting hit near you and the old bulbs (with filaments) turn on/flash or burn out, or explode? it's called induced current and has killed many people and taken many houses out

[ssmith10pn 0]

buellwinkle,

Study up on the electron theory.

 

 

Quiktron will make pre terminated fiber with pulling eyes.

 

http://www.quiktron.com/custom_cables.asp?

 

 

Make sure your conduit is over sized and install a Quazite pull box a minimum of every 700 feet.

 

 

http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/enclosures/below-ground/straight/11x18/cdr.asp

[ssmith10pn 0]

some food for thought.

 

Lightening actually travels from the ground up. Negative to positive.

 

 

 

The main issue is the difference in ground potential from the gate to the house. A telephone line has 70volt carbon fuses in it. A delicate Ethernet circuit can be fried with just milli volts.

[ak357 0]

some food for thought.

 

Lightening actually travels from the ground up. Negative to positive.

 

that depend whom u talking to

for some - to +

for other + to -

[jeromephone 6]

Fiber multi strand 6 at min. Go either 50 micron MM or SM either should work but you want to avoid a bunch extenders and such. We have used the veracity stuff and it works but total cost of ownership is going to be less with fiber. An RFID card and pin code should give you all the security you need fingerprint and retina scan sound cool but they are not without there problems.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Fiber multi strand 6 at min. Go either 50 micron MM or SM either should work but you want to avoid a bunch extenders and such. We have used the veracity stuff and it works but total cost of ownership is going to be less with fiber. An RFID card and pin code should give you all the security you need fingerprint and retina scan sound cool but they are not without there problems.

 

62.5 will go 2000 meters at 1300nm and 200 meters at 850nm.

 

I think 50 micron is even shorter.

 

Gbics or media converters are dirt cheap for 62.5.

 

Single Mode would cost a good bit more.

It's only a gate. 100mbps is more than enough.

 

Just my opinion.

[turbo v6 camaro 0]

Fiber multi strand 6 at min. Go either 50 micron MM or SM either should work but you want to avoid a bunch extenders and such. We have used the veracity stuff and it works but total cost of ownership is going to be less with fiber. An RFID card and pin code should give you all the security you need fingerprint and retina scan sound cool but they are not without there problems.

 

62.5 will go 2000 meters at 1300nm and 200 meters at 850nm.

 

I think 50 micron is even shorter.

 

Gbics or media converters are dirt cheap for 62.5.

 

Single Mode would cost a good bit more.

It's only a gate. 100mbps is more than enough.

 

Just my opinion.

50micron can do it just fine

 

see chart near bottom

OM3 can go 1000m

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/modules/ps5455/ps6577/product_data_sheet0900aecd8033f885.html

[vector18 1]

I recently had a similar situation. A commercial building has a huge parking lot and the call box for the gate is approximately 750ft away from the building. They wanted a board camera inside the call box so they can see who they are letting in the gate. I decided that since the camera is so small and so close to the car, an analog board camera would do just as good as an IP camera. So, I had the gate company run me a cat5 when they ran their communication cables under ground. I installed the board camera with a pinhole lens in the mount already set up in the call box, used 1000ft video baluns, powered the camera inside the call box, and connected the cat5 inside the building to an analog DVR. I than put the DVR on their network, gave the DVR a static IP and

than in the NVR I went into remote device, entered the IP of the DVR and channel one which is the gate camera. I didn't even

tell the customer it's an analog camera and when we drove a car up to the call box, the persons face was crystal clear and they

loved it.