Blue Iris vs Exacq Vision - questions

[dapopa9 0]

New to the Surveillance technology but years of experience on the network/systems design and management side of the tech world. So thanks a ton for all the valuable knowledge here. I searched but didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

 

I'm building my first surveillance system and in need of a bit of advice on choosing software and the system hardware. As a reference point for my questions I will be using Axis M11, Axis P3364, and Axis M1354. cameras, 1280x800 resolution, 10 FPS. Total of 20 Cameras. 24x7 recording. Only doing recording - no Live viewing. Viewing would be recorded playback only from a client computer occasionally.

 

 

Blue Iris vs Exacq Vision - performance based questions

1. How does the data storage for recorded video compare for these two programs? Does one take up more storage? Or do they encode exactly the same?

2. Does this calculator apply to these programs? http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/security-nvr-storage-calculator

3. It seems most people are using i7 processors here. Is that better for these programs than say a new Xeon E5-2403 processor?

4. From what I read RAM doesn't make much difference? Is this true for both programs? (assuming I have at least 8GB RAM but sounds like no need for more than that)

5. Would a RAID 5 array with 7200RPM drives be sufficient for the recorded storage drive? Or does it need to be RAID10 or 15K RPM drives?

6. Any advantage to run the software on Win7 vs Server 2008/2012?

7. For my primary function of straight recording and occasionally viewing recorded video does it matter whether I use Blue iris or Exacq Vision with these 20 cams?

 

Primary goal here is to make sure I have enough horsepower to record the camera streams. Thanks for all the help and time!

[thewireguys 3]

Blue Iris vs Exacq Vision - performance based questions

1. How does the data storage for recorded video compare for these two programs? Does one take up more storage? Or do they encode exactly the same?

 

The encoding is done on the camera for storage will be the same.

 

2. Does this calculator apply to these programs? http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/security-nvr-storage-calculator

 

I would recommend using the using the manufactures tools for calculating bandwidth and storage. Below are links to Axis and Exacq. Sorry I could not find Blue Iris

 

https://exacq.com/config/

http://www.axis.com/products/video/design_tool/v2/

 

3. It seems most people are using i7 processors here. Is that better for these programs than say a new Xeon E5-2403 processor?

 

With Exacq and only 20 cameras a i5 will be fine. But you will need a lot more CPU power for Blue-Iris

 

 

4. From what I read RAM doesn't make much difference? Is this true for both programs? (assuming I have at least 8GB RAM but sounds like no need for more than that)

 

Exacq is a 32bit program so anything over 2GB is a waste

 

5. Would a RAID 5 array with 7200RPM drives be sufficient for the recorded storage drive? Or does it need to be RAID10 or 15K RPM drives?

 

7200RPM will be fine

 

6. Any advantage to run the software on Win7 vs Server 2008/2012?

 

No

 

7. For my primary function of straight recording and occasionally viewing recorded video does it matter whether I use Blue iris or Exacq.

 

Blue Iris only allows you to view one camera at a time and they do not have timeline that will allow you to scrub video.

 

Exacq has multi camera payback and has a timeline where you can scrub video BUT you have to pull the video from the server to you client machine before you can scrub. With megapixel camera this be like watching paint dry. Exacq does have a thumbnail search feature but there are better optional if the most important feature for you is searching recorded video.

 

I know I sound like a broken record but I would recommend you look at Avigilon or HD Whitness for a VMS. Both have multi-camera playback, scrub bar, pixel search and thumbnail search. Since you only have 20 camera's Avigilon will be cheaper .

[buellwinkle 0]

It's hard to compare a product that's very good for $50 to one that will cost about $1,000 so you have to figure out your budget. I run BlueIris and Milestone XProtect on the same PC. BlueIris with 20 modern megapixel cameras at full frame rate is going to tax an i7. Exacq, Milestone, Avigilon won't put much of a dent on the same box, or like thewireguys said, an i5 is fine.

 

To me the biggest drawbacks for BlueIris, is no multi-camera playback, web interface is lacking with only low resolution viewing and playback and no other functionality. I have not tried their smartphone apps, but I know Milestone has good apps. Also, not sure if you are 100% a Windows guy, but I like that Milestone's web interface work on many browser like on mac, so does BlueIris. Also, because the client and server are the same program, you can't separate it out, like have one PC as the server, then manage it from another PC as the client.

 

As for timeline scrubbing, it's odd in BlueIris. It stores events into clips that are by default 8 hours long. You double click on a clip, then you can scrub within that clip, not really a timeline, but large bucket of events back to back. It's sort of odd, and looking for that needle in the haystack one camera at a time when you have 20 cameras, not sure it's good solution for 20 cameras.

[Razer_SE 0]

I do know that the processor will not matter hardly at all with Exacq, the other one will require a lot of thought in the actual computer as it is a hog in comparison.

 

I'm running many, many Exacq systems and the CPU is not something you have to think about. I'm running 9 ACTi 3mp cameras and 1 ACTi 2mp camera for example on an i3 with 2gb of RAM. The CPU usage is around 1-4% without the client up on the screen, and when it is it is closer to 20%. That's it.

 

I just looked at another system for comparison as a good example - I thought this system had a dual core pentium but when I looked it was a celeron. Celeron E1400 @ 2.0ghz. 2Gb of ram and there are 8 cameras, 6 ACTi e31s and 2 ACTi KCM-3911 hemispheric cameras. Without the client running I'm at 1-3% cpu usage, even with me remotely pulling video from it from my client on my laptop. Pulling up the web view and viewing every camera at once will take it to 50%, and the same with viewing on the local client.

 

I very much like not having to worry about processor usage, though I'd recommend better than a Celeron lol, at least it works fine.

[dapopa9 0]

 

7. For my primary function of straight recording and occasionally viewing recorded video does it matter whether I use Blue iris or Exacq.

 

 

I know I sound like a broken record but I would recommend you look at Avigilon or HD Whitness for a VMS. Both have multi-camera playback, scrub bar, pixel search and thumbnail search. Since you only have 20 camera's Avigilon will be cheaper .

 

 

Thanks a ton for all the advice guys! How much is the Avigilon licensing? I don't really see any good info on the web for the pricing. The product features look really good. Is Avigilon similar to Exacq when it comes to processor and RAM needed?

[buellwinkle 0]

Avigilon, Milestone, XProtect all have different versions at different price points and you have to read through the lines to see which fits as some limit client access on cheaper licenses, they have different number of users for different price levels. First go to each companies website and they usually have a chart that lists all their features and then has check boxes or quantities for each version. Once you know what version you want, it's easier to get pricing.

 

Milestone for up to 26 camera is about $50/camera, Exacq, last time I checked has similar pricing for their Start version but only to 16 cameras and one client, so going over means getting their Pro version and last time I checked was about $150/camera. The reason you don't see Exacq and Avigilon pricing is they won't allow online sales. When I asked them, they felt it should be only sold through an installer as part of a project. You should be able to install trial versions of all these and see which you like.

[thewireguys 3]

You would have no problem running 20 cameras with a i3 or i5 with Avigilon. Feel free to PM me for pricing as Avigilon does not have online sales.

[ak357 0]

 

 

How much is the Avigilon licensing? I don't really see any good info on the web for the pricing. The product features look really good. Is Avigilon similar to Exacq when it comes to processor and RAM needed?

U can easily run Avigilon on netbook computer

[icamera 0]

Everything so easy... SO how much cost?

 

 

 

How much is the Avigilon licensing? I don't really see any good info on the web for the pricing. The product features look really good. Is Avigilon similar to Exacq when it comes to processor and RAM needed?

U can easily run Avigilon on netbook computer

[dapopa9 0]

Avigilon, Milestone, XProtect all have different versions at different price points and you have to read through the lines to see which fits as some limit client access on cheaper licenses, they have different number of users for different price levels. First go to each companies website and they usually have a chart that lists all their features and then has check boxes or quantities for each version. Once you know what version you want, it's easier to get pricing.

 

Milestone for up to 26 camera is about $50/camera, Exacq, last time I checked has similar pricing for their Start version but only to 16 cameras and one client, so going over means getting their Pro version and last time I checked was about $150/camera. The reason you don't see Exacq and Avigilon pricing is they won't allow online sales. When I asked them, they felt it should be only sold through an installer as part of a project. You should be able to install trial versions of all these and see which you like.

 

I'm just wondering about pricing for Avigilon as mentioned before. Core or Standard.

 

 

Does Avigilon work well with most of the Axis cameras?

[thewireguys 3]

Avigilon works fine with Axis camera but if you want to see the solution really shine I would recommend Avigilon cameras.

 

I think CORE would be a good fit for your needs since you have less then 24 cameras.

 

PM Sent

[dapopa9 0]

Avigilon works fine with Axis camera but if you want to see the solution really shine I would recommend Avigilon cameras.

 

I think CORE would be a good fit for your needs since you have less then 24 cameras.

 

PM Sent

 

 

Using Axis cameras does it limit the functionality and features?

[ak357 0]

 

 

Using Axis cameras does it limit the functionality and features?

Everything, but pixel search will not work

[zikronix 0]

Avigilon works fine with Axis camera but if you want to see the solution really shine I would recommend Avigilon cameras.

 

I think CORE would be a good fit for your needs since you have less then 24 cameras.

 

PM Sent

 

 

Im might be interested in this product as well. Ill send you a pm in the next few days, to tell you what im looking at.

[cliff369 0]

Actually pixel search will work with an Axis camera and Avigilon.. just not 3rd party ONVIF cameras that don't support motion detection.

thumbnails would though on the 3rd party onvif.

[thewireguys 3]

Actually pixel search will work with an Axis camera and Avigilon.. just not 3rd party ONVIF cameras that don't support motion detection.

thumbnails would though on the 3rd party onvif.

 

Cliff.....Pixel search does work but it is different. Avigilon's cameras have very good on camera motion detection that is pixel based but Axis cameras use box based motion detection.

 

When you use pixel search with Axis cameras it returns results based on your motion boxes not pixels like Avigilon cameras. You will have much better results with Avigilon cameras if you want the pixel search feature.

 

If you want to test this the easiest way is you turn on Motion Activity Image Overlays. If you are running 5.0 you do this by clicking on the "Cog" in the top right of the client software, then "client settings", "Display" then check mark "Motion Activity"

 

Once you have Motion Activity enabled do a pixel search on one of your Axis camera and you will see red boxes where motion is detected.

 

This feature is very helpful to figure out nuisance motion alarms and can help save you lots of storage.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Guest

[A*Worker 0]

 

Beware of Avigilon's bait-and-switch tactics - they lure you in with the image quality of their older JPEG2000 cameras (which are also available from Visiowave by the way), then they end up selling you their dramatically inferior H.264 cameras, which do not compare to the competition unless the competition is analog cameras. Have a look at a direct competition here and decide for yourself:

 

Here is a comparison for you, please note that this is a true apples-to-apples comparison clearly showing the poorer image quality of the Avigilon camera.

Avigilon always oversells their cameras and claims that are far better than they really are:

http://www.slideshare.net/Avigilon2?utm_campaign=profiletracking&utm_medium=sssite&utm_source=ssslideview

Avigilon always lures customers in with their JPEG2000 16MP or 29MP camera, then ends up installing their crappy H.264 cameras.

Have a look here, and you will see that the Avigilon 5MP H.264 is no better than an Axis or Sony 2MP camera

 

Another obvious overstated selling item the Avigilon sales guys do and show is that they always push you to their 16MP and 29MP camera, but they never show it in actual operation - that's because it can only handle 2fps at full resolution and the image is crappy when looking at any amount of motion.

 

Also try asking Avigilon to do a true side-by side comparison of their H.264 cameras' Wide Dynamic range? They always make outlandish claims of being superior with night vision when the reality is that their cameras are one of the worst in the industry for WDR when compared to proper CCTV brands like Panasonic, SOny, Axis, Pelco, AD.

 

If you need CCTV to be reliable in any way (i.e. for larger sites) you probably also want software failover - ask Avigilon how they handle that! they don't! Their way of doing failover is to sell vmware, Citrix ZEN, MS HyperV or similar virtualization platforms. These are fine if the hardware dies, but none of them monitor the actual software. what if a camera or the Avigilon ACC NVMS stopped responding? Nothing would happen - it would just stay frozen!

 

Can they even make their JPEG2000 cameras anymore? I would guess that the JPEG2000 chipsets are going to be obsolete soon since Avigilon is one of the last companies on earth still using JPEG2000 vs. H.264. It's the classic VHS vs. BETA all over again - go ahead and invest in JPEG2000 and you are buying a technology that will soon die and no longer be supported. It is too bad since it actually provides superior performance for CCTV, even though it needs much more storage space.

Just don't believe the BS that Avigilon sales rep's sell you about their image quality when they end up selling you really crappy H.264 cameras.

[icamera 0]

Your a disgruntled employee or just a person with username Avigilon worker?

 

 

Beware of Avigilon's bait-and-switch tactics - they lure you in with the image quality of their older JPEG2000 cameras (which are also available from Visiowave by the way), then they end up selling you their dramatically inferior H.264 cameras, which do not compare to the competition unless the competition is analog cameras. Have a look at a direct competition here and decide for yourself:

 

Here is a comparison for you, please note that this is a true apples-to-apples comparison clearly showing the poorer image quality of the Avigilon camera.

Avigilon always oversells their cameras and claims that are far better than they really are:

http://www.slideshare.net/Avigilon2?utm_campaign=profiletracking&utm_medium=sssite&utm_source=ssslideview

Avigilon always lures customers in with their JPEG2000 16MP or 29MP camera, then ends up installing their crappy H.264 cameras.

Have a look here, and you will see that the Avigilon 5MP H.264 is no better than an Axis or Sony 2MP camera

 

Another obvious overstated selling item the Avigilon sales guys do and show is that they always push you to their 16MP and 29MP camera, but they never show it in actual operation - that's because it can only handle 2fps at full resolution and the image is crappy when looking at any amount of motion.

 

Also try asking Avigilon to do a true side-by side comparison of their H.264 cameras' Wide Dynamic range? They always make outlandish claims of being superior with night vision when the reality is that their cameras are one of the worst in the industry for WDR when compared to proper CCTV brands like Panasonic, SOny, Axis, Pelco, AD.

 

If you need CCTV to be reliable in any way (i.e. for larger sites) you probably also want software failover - ask Avigilon how they handle that! they don't! Their way of doing failover is to sell vmware, Citrix ZEN, MS HyperV or similar virtualization platforms. These are fine if the hardware dies, but none of them monitor the actual software. what if a camera or the Avigilon ACC NVMS stopped responding? Nothing would happen - it would just stay frozen!

 

Can they even make their JPEG2000 cameras anymore? I would guess that the JPEG2000 chipsets are going to be obsolete soon since Avigilon is one of the last companies on earth still using JPEG2000 vs. H.264. It's the classic VHS vs. BETA all over again - go ahead and invest in JPEG2000 and you are buying a technology that will soon die and no longer be supported. It is too bad since it actually provides superior performance for CCTV, even though it needs much more storage space.

Just don't believe the BS that Avigilon sales rep's sell you about their image quality when they end up selling you really crappy H.264 cameras.

[ak357 0]

Beware of Avigilon's bait-and-switch tactics - they lure you in with the image quality of their older JPEG2000 cameras (which are also available from Visiowave by the way), then they end up selling you their dramatically inferior H.264 cameras, which do not compare to the competition unless the competition is analog cameras. Have a look at a direct competition here and decide for yourself:

 

 

To Avigilon Partners and End users

my suggestions

Do not respond to childish BS by "Avigilonworker"

unless He is ready to post his name ,e-mail ,ph number

like all of us offering this to anybody

[buellwinkle 0]

Then lets see the bake-off then, call Avigilon out, lets see a side by side with popular cameras. If it's so good, what would they be afraid off?

[tomcctv 190]

they always push you to their 16MP and 29MP camera,

 

that's because it can only handle 2fps at full resolution

 

 

 

have you not forgot to calculate something ?????

[pavel1883 0]

What was that? Looks like Axis or Bosch or Panasonic etc. sales person lost big project to Avigilon ))))) Keep calm )))

[ak357 0]

What was that? Looks like Axis or Bosch or Panasonic etc. sales person lost big project to Avigilon ))))) Keep calm )))

Pasha privet !

davno teby zdes ne bulo

[pavel1883 0]

What was that? Looks like Axis or Bosch or Panasonic etc. sales person lost big project to Avigilon ))))) Keep calm )))

Pasha privet !

davno teby zdes ne bulo

 

Да уж)

[cliff369 0]

Thanks for the info wiredguys.. good tip.

 

for A*worker -- really.. i mean really?? first off sorry this topic turned from blueiris and exacq to avigilon bashing..

but you must be a salesperson from a vendor that is just tired of getting beat by a much superior product.

 

There is no bait and switch tactics.. I've talked with a few avigilon sales reps and it's nothing like what your painting.

16 and 29's are shown because believe it or not they are excellent for parking lots, stadiums, large areas, malls, etc....

you don't need 15fps to have a great detailed view. you need detailed area coverage with situational awareness.

an example - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFmFBOiztT8

 

as far as the JPG2000 goes there are substantial benefits to using these in higher end cameras especially bandwidth and their

hdsm technology. the 1-5mp jpegs were discontinued already in favor of the h.264's for easier installation and excellent image quality.

 

for comparison shots I've seen a side by side sony ir bullet next to an avigilon bullet and it's night and day that avigilon is better.

here's a link to the avigilon 3mp bullet demo -

in case you want to see IR quality.

maybe you should read their white paper on adaptive IR..

 

with your link to the test shot between axis and avigilon - do you have the vms file to back that up or was that just

some random pics.

 

avigilon next to an arecont - is a huge difference as well in quality.

 

i'm sure if you truly ask an avigilon sales rep to do a bake off between any other camera mfg. they would be happy to.

 

and your failover comment.. i mean really...

failover is an enterprise feature that is easy as pie to setup.. first server fails, cameras start recording to secondary server.

And sure they support VMWare but it's definitely not their goto answer.

 

lastly, their vms software is the easiest to use and most efficient and powerful one that i've ever seen.