Centralized vs Distributed NVR system (Campus)

[JPSav 0]

I have a campus environment, and we have about 15 DVRs serving roughly 200 cameras (Each DVR has 16 camera inputs).

 

We are finally planning to migrate to an IP system.

I believe the most cost effective way to do this is to replace the DVRs with Hybrid units.

 

Are there hybrid systems out there that are just as good as pure NVR systems?

I read online that the Hybrid systems have limited functionality.

 

Would it be better to add encoders and stream all the camera feeds to a massive NVR centrally located on campus? (provided I have the bandwidth to support the encoders streaming back to the NVR).

By my calculation, it would be about 15.44Mbps per 16 camera encoder... (H.264, 15fps D1 resolution)

 

How about just adding encoders and NVRs locally in each building?

 

What are the pro's and con's of each solution?

What would we typically find in the industry for a campus environment?

 

thanks!

Edited September 22, 2013 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

I am working on quote right now for a project just like this and I have many customers with setups like this.

 

We will be using Avigilon 4 Channel encoders and streaming everything back to the server in the IT room.

 

Most of the rooms that house the current DVRS are not designed for it and the systems over heat. They have been replacing a lot of hard drives because of this and they wanted all of the storage in one central location.

 

If you have a fiber backbone between buildings this what I would recommend.

 

Also Avigilon's 4 channel encoders are the most cost effective units on the market. I also like using the 4 channel units over 16 channel units because of the flexibly they give us. If you have a 16 channel unit and you eliminate 4 analog cameras your stuck with 4 open ports. If you use 4 channel encoders you can take that extra 4 channel encoder out and move it to a new location or keep it as a back up unit.

[JPSav 0]

that seems like the most economical way of doing it...

 

The encoders are extremely inexpensive and the software is "free", the only real cost is the camera license (which is about $335)

 

My client is likely going to be concerned with the traffic increase on the network. (We do have fiber backbone between the buildings though).

 

Another concern Is that the CCTV operations would be completely dependent on the campus network and in the unlikely event that the network goes down, live video feeds will be unavailable, and even worse, video-data won't be recorded... Even with a robust network, I'm not convinced that this is acceptable.

[ak357 0]

that seems like the most economical way of doing it...

 

The encoders are extremely inexpensive and the software is "free", the only real cost is the camera license (which is about $335)

 

My client is likely going to be concerned with the traffic increase on the network. (We do have fiber backbone between the buildings though).

 

Another concern Is that the CCTV operations would be completely dependent on the campus network and in the unlikely event that the network goes down, live video feeds will be unavailable, and even worse, video-data won't be recorded... Even with a robust network, I'm not convinced that this is acceptable.

Make sure that camera and encoders are on separate subnet

[thewireguys 3]

If you have a fiber ring I don't see what the big deal is. I have many customers setup this way and have not had any issues.

[JPSav 0]

I was never a fan of putting all my eggs in the same basket... and am somewhat uncomfortable with a centralized solution.

 

NVRs in each building would be more expensive, but it would still allow for local recording during a network outage... which I think is essential.

Outage would not be as catastrophic in a distributed architecture (vs. centralized).

 

I was hoping to get some insight from experienced integrators/designers as to what the "best practice" are for this type of scenario (college campus).

 

Does anyone have any direct experience with this?

[thewireguys 3]

I do

 

I have customers in healthcare, ISP, goverment, K-12, hospitality/resorts

 

Considering most of my customers already had a distributed system in place (Analog DVRs) they didn't like having systems located all over the place. They had issues with gard drives consistently failing because the DVRs where not installed temp controlled rooms, having to service systems all over the place, system was less secure because more people had access to these locations. They all chose to install servers in the main server room.

 

Yes if the fiber gets cut they lose recording but they have a lot other more important problems to deal with like the phone system and computer network.

 

If you have fiber connecting different IDFs in the same building or fiber connecting different buildings across the campus you are using the same hardware. It's no like you are introducing more hardware to fail. You do have a greater risk of someone cutting the fiber but like I said when that happens normally the customer has more important things to worry about then the video. Just some feedback they I have received from my customers in the same boat as you.

 

If you have server rooms in each building then I would think about installing the servers around the campus but that is up to you.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Guest

[JPSav 0]

thanks,

I appreciate your input!

 

 

I'd like to still price out a distributed solution (replacing the DVRs with Hybrid units).

What are some of the best Hybrid DVR/NVRs out there?

Something that is open platform (ONVIF).

[thewireguys 3]

What platforms are you looking at?

[JPSav 0]

Milestone

Avigilon

Genetec...

[thewireguys 3]

Milestone

Avigilon

Genetec...

 

OK so your options are placing a NVR in each location or at the headend. If you place every NVR at the headend and the fiber gets cut you will lose video. If you put a NVR in each building it will cost more.

 

 

What does your customer want?

[JPSav 0]

The goal is to present the customer with options.

 

The hybrid devices need to be where the DVRs are currently.

 

What hybrid devices are recommended (and compatible with the above mentioned platforms)

[ak357 0]

The goal is to present the customer with options.

 

The hybrid devices need to be where the DVRs are currently.

 

What hybrid devices are recommended (and compatible with the above mentioned platforms)

The platform u mentioned are software which run on PC

As "Hybrid" unit you can make it yourself as you been told already

[Owain 0]

Another concern Is that the CCTV operations would be completely dependent on the campus network and in the unlikely event that the network goes down, live video feeds will be unavailable, and even worse, video-data won't be recorded... Even with a robust network, I'm not convinced that this is acceptable.

 

For selected 'critical' cameras use cameras with on-board recording to SD card as backup.

 

For resiliency though you need to consider how you will power cameras, that's usually more of an issue than a decent network going down. And the network is under your IT control; power isn't. UPS to a server room is easy, getting UPS power out to cameras beyond the reach of PoE isn't.

[JPSav 0]

The platform u mentioned are software which run on PC

As "Hybrid" unit you can make it yourself as you been told already

 

How would I go about "making it myself"?

I must have missed where I've "been told already".

 

Are there any vendors that offer an out-of-the-box solution with Hybrid recorders?

I basically want to be able to remove the DVRs & replace them with the hybrid unit and call it a day.

[thewireguys 3]

None of those VMS manufactures listed have turn key hybrid units. You will have to run a servers with encoders.

[JPSav 0]

I have a feeling that hybrid units are not a popular migration path to IP cameras...

[Kawboy12R 0]

 

From what I've seen and heard about, "here" most places that run analog and IP run DVRs alongside their NVRs rather than try and integrate them into a hybrid setup. I looked into hybrids for my home setup and ended up running a DVR (well, two at one point) in addition to my IP stuff rather than a hybrid.

 

Avigilon does seem to have a decent method for integrating analog cams into their IP camera software though. You might want to ask the wire guy how or if motion detection works on the analog side with their solution if that is important to you. The software relies on the camera to pass it motion detection info to initiate recording.

 

[thewireguys 3]

 

All motion detection is done in the encoders and works perfectly.

 

Yes there are companies that have hybrid units but A) you are going to pay a lot more B) they are less flexible when you upgrade to HD.

 

You will have to decide if you are going to pay for more storage so when you upgrade to HD you will have enough storage. Also what happens when you fill the unit up are you going to by another unit to put in that building for one extra camera? Kind of reminds me of the analog DVR limitations.

 

[ssnapier 0]

LTS is a solid low end option for sure, I have their 16 channel DVR in my office right now. My suggestion (if you don't choose Avigilon) was going to be IndigoVision. They have a line of gear that will do exactly what you need, and the costs will be in line with Avigilon. The only real advantage I can see with Avigilon over Indigo is that they now have their own access control too (Red Cloud), so if you wanted to eventually have card access on those building and have everything to a single platform that would be the way to go.