Newbie Needs Help

[GadgetFan 0]

Hi, I am looking to put in a Video monitoring system for my home. I am new to this, so I am not sure what is possible or what the cost would be and I apologize if I leave out any critical info, but here goes.

 

I had 4 locations on the exterior of my house prewired with cat 5, coax and low voltage that terminate in a A/V panel in a closet. I would like to have room in equipment to add 3 or 4 more cameras in the future. I made the wiring selection over a year ago and did the cat5 because I had heard about IP cameras and wanted to be able to use them if they were good cost/performance vs. traditional cameras. Below are my primary wants.

 

1) View live feed from any TV in the house

2) View live feed from the internet (password protected) by entering an IP address.

3) Record complete footage from all cameras in full quality.

4) Option to only record if movement in select pixels.

5) Ability to transfer all or select footage to DVD and removable hard drive.

6) Ability to record off site if an alarm trips for instance.

7) 30 f/s

Recording capacity at full quality one week (As long as 5 is possible)

 

I have been told that I need a multiplexer, DVR and IP video server. I am also looking for camera recommendations.

 

 

The prewire was an upgrade that I paid (a lot) for with a "tract" builder. They did all of my network, coax and speaker wiring as well. I thought it would be less expensive and less mess to have them do it (the jury is still out). I asked the builder's contractor to recommend a system and they came up with Speco CVC 637EX for the cameras (said that IP cameras were more expensive also didn't seem to want to use IR cameras) and a Lorex L124A-81 4 Channel Multiplexer (need to get back with me on one with more channels). The contractor gets most of their work from captives like me, so I am not to sure if they know what they are doing when it comes to recommending equipment.

 

From what I have read here, I am guessing that the Lorex stuff is pretty low end, not sure about the cameras.

 

I am not married to any brand or platform. I want the best system for the money and I am willing to pay a little extra to get something that is a step above in quality, performance and ease of use. I know that is sort of vague, so I am willing to spend several thousand to get a good DVR/Multiplexer/IP video server plus the cost of the cameras.

 

 

Please let me know what you think of the contractors recs and what you would choose instead. Also, If anyone works in Phoenix, I would be open to getting the equipment from you and having you install.

 

Thanks for all of your help.

[Daryl733 0]

There's 2 Way you can hook the equipment up since you already had both kind of wires in, both with it's pro and cons.

1. IP camera Way.

You'll need

a. 4 X IP Camera

b. Computer running IP camera software for recording.

You can used AXIS cameras/software.

 

2. Traditional CCTV Cameras.

a. 4 x CCTV cameras - lots of kind to choose from.

b. Standalone DVR with remote monitoring features.

 

You'll not need a mupltiplexer since most DVR already had a multiplexer.

If you want to record full video at real time, you'll properly need a higher end DVR.Your 30f/s means EACH camera or TOTAL framerate ?

 

Also, most DVR comes in 4/8/9/16/32 channels. Since you want room for expansion, you'll be considering the 8 or 9 channels DVR (some brand make it in 8, some have it in 9).

 

1) View live feed from any TV in the house

Not really possible since you didn't have that hook up. You'll need to run a cox cable from your av pannel to each and every TV in your house. The other way is have a RF distributor, multiplex your CCTV video signal into your existing Cable and then tune your TV to receive it. Not too sure how your home's wired up, so need more info.

 

2) View live feed from the internet (password protected) by entering an IP address.

Get a Internet able DVR. As for the IP Cameras, just need to configure them right. If recording on a monitoring/recording software, configure it as well. AXIS one can, but they are pricy.

 

3) Record complete footage from all cameras in full quality.

Well, get a higher end DVR to do that. Check out the specs of the DVR you want. If you using IP camera, most likely you'll not be able to get real time recording. You'll lose some frame here and there depends on your network/recording speed.

 

4) Option to only record if movement in select pixels.

Most DVR support motion triggered recording. As for IP camera, check out the software specs. Axis one does. But the software's pricing. 4 Camera license...

 

5) Ability to transfer all or select footage to DVD and removable hard drive.

IP camera most likely can since you'll be using a software based recorder. Just back up the file to DVDR/HDD. DVR depends on if they have DVD Drive. Most support backup to removable harddisk vie usb/network. You can also backup through Network to a DVDR on your computer.

 

For both, backing up to DVR means backing up the video images/data to DVR. It does not mean backing up to DVD as DVD Video.

Doing that will involve extra procedures/equipment depends on how you do it.

 

Some people will suggest that you use a consumer DVD/HD Recorder with multiplexer to record CCTV images. I strongely advise against that. You'll lose lots of features when you do that. e.g. able to search vie time, enlarge images, etc.

 

Most likely you'll not want to transfer all footage. It's huge. You might as well get a dvr with removable hdd and just swap the HDD.

 

 

6) Ability to record off site if an alarm trips for instance.

Some DVR support transmission over network once an alarm's triggered.

Kodicom DVR does.

 

7) 30 f/s

Per camera or TOTAL framerate ? Check out the dvr specs.

 

Recording capacity at full quality one week (As long as 5 is possible)

Depends on how big harddisk you put in actually.

 

[prices removed by mod]

 

If you want the specs, PM me and i'll send you a link, or just search online.

 

In accordance to guideline, i can't post the link here.

 

Of course there's a lot of other brand of camera/dvr. These are just some recommendation.

[smcneal 0]

Your options on VRs are plenty.

 

If you are as technical as you sound and have networked your house, I think you should look strongly at a PC-based system such as a GeoVision card. Most all VRs on the market are internet ready. Some remote access features in DVRs are better than others.

 

I sell almost every DVR out there and the standalone DVRs are still very popular. The GeoVision features and video quality are superior to most standalone DVRs and a GV-800-4 card is way less expensive that a 4 channel standalone.

 

I always suggest that put as much $ in the cameras as possible. Minimum 480 TVL . The cameras that were suggested previously are cheap low-end cameras that will give you less than optimal video.

 

Much of the reply post info was very good, but you can get a Dell Computer (3 G, 400GB HD, DVD R/W) Bosch 480 TVL cameras, and complete system for less than the "normal system" noted. It would provide 30fps and features not found in the IP system.

 

Basically, a professional CCTV system today uses high resolution analog cameras and multiplexes those signals into IP through the DVR.

 

 

Hope this helps.

[Daryl733 0]

Yup. Those are just 420TVL end consumer cameras. not 480TVL's.

 

[prices removed by mod]

 

All boils down to your budget and what's important to you.

Even if you use high res cam, but set your dvr to record at low res, or use a normal TV to view, or basically just watch through a PC vie the network software, or using RF modulator, etc, these will also lower down the resolution. So unless you use good equipment all the way up, sometimes it might not be worth the $$ to spend so much on the camera and leave little on the other pieces of equipment.

[GadgetFan 0]

Thanks for the input. Does that mean that the contractors recs were junk?

 

Daryl what hook up would I need to view from any TV in the house. All TV's have at least 1 coax home run to ONQ distribution panel, so if necessary couldn't I use a modulator or something along those lines from an output on the DVR? And how do your DVR recs compare to Sanyo DSR-3009?

 

smc, I am a little leary of a PC based system because of stability. It would need to be on all the time and I wouldn't want to have the system freeze when I am out of town. I use computers all of the time and even our servers at work need aps to be forced to quite every once in a while etc. Also noticed on the website that you recomended that they sell Nuvico, DM, Panasonic etc. Is the Panasonic worth twice as much as the others? What's the best of the rest?

 

Thanks

[rory 0]

PC will give you more features, though you may not need that, but PC based can end up being cheaper also .. depends on the system and card you use.

 

The Specio 637EXs need alot of light, they used to be low light cameras but they changed that, so ignore any specs on them. They are high res and a decent wide angle, though since they are a bullet camera, the image doesnt compare to a Pro camera, such as a Box camera or a decent Dome. The lens makes a huge difference, and not all Domes will have good lenses either.

 

Here is an example of a budget 1/4" Color camera 380TVL on the left, and the Speco 637ex 1/3" on the right.

Note the wider angle of the 1/3" and the higher res (excuse lines in image as was bad wiring)

 

But if you want to save some money, just get a regular color bullet camera (380TVL CCD without Infrared) and use that in areas where you have decent lighting. Then use BW where it is low light, and if its pitch dark, you will need seperate Infrared, but its cheaper to use motion lighting, or normal outdoor lighting.

 

You get what you pay for, when it comes to CCTV .. the DM and Panasonics are very expensive, same as the GE, dont think you need that for your home. If you were going to spend that much, you might want to look at a PC based with Real time record and display in 720x480, and get a super fast PC.

 

 

1) View live feed from any TV in the house

Run a RCA cable from the DVR location to a modulator (you can place the modulator right beside the DVR), then from the modulator run a RG6 Coax to the Cable TV Coax before it splits off out to your TVs. I imagine the AV Panel is where the Cable TV splits up, so run it there and use the splitter and a low pass filter, check out "Channel Vision".

 

2) View live feed from the internet (password protected) by entering an IP address.

Most stand alones allow Password Protection for the remote connection, but the PC based units i have found to have much more user and password options. Either way get aninternet capable DVR and then make sure it has password protection for the remote connection.

 

3) Record complete footage from all cameras in full quality.

The low end stand alone DVRs dont normally do that, generally they will do Quad mode or 320x240 on all cameras, or 720x480 in low fps (where 640x480 and 720x480 is high resolution). Depends on which DVR you choose.

 

4) Option to only record if movement in select pixels.

Once again, you need a decent DVR to get motion detection recording. Most low end stand alones dont do it, or they dont work properly.

 

5) Ability to transfer all or select footage to DVD and removable hard drive.

Depends on the stand alone, the PC based for certain, and even some low end Stand alones now have USB output for back up. The higher priced stand alones can also come with a CD, and some even more expensive ones like the GE have DVD as an option. I use PC based now for another reason, it has much better evidence sharing capabilities than the stand alones, even than the high end stand alones, higher quality video and images, as well as any kind of back up you want to use.

 

6) Ability to record off site if an alarm trips for instance.

Depends again on the DVR .. where you are located and what your budget is. Once you determine how many cameras you will need, then can work that out. Geo Vision PC card software comes with a Central Monitoring software than can send videe on motion or alarms, and record off site. Also, even the AvTech software has a similar feature, where it can FTP or Email on motion.

 

7) 30 f/s

Total or per camera? 30fps is a standard on all DVRs for the most basic.

 

8 ) Recording capacity at full quality one week (As long as 5 is possible)

Depends on the DVR, compression used, if it supports motion detection, how many cameras are installed, whether they are color or BW cameras, Lighting situation on each camera, and hard drives installed.

 

As for web sites, please check out our advertisers for products and pricing.

 

Thanks

Rory

[GadgetFan 0]

Rory, I am not looking to break the bank with this, but I appreciate tech equipment and am willing to pay a few extra bucks to get something with better picture quality, good networking, IP accesability, GUI etc.

 

Is the Sanyo DSR-3009 a good choice? If one of the others is a better choice but more expensive I am certainly willing to pay for features, performance and reliability up to a point. If the Sanyo is X and the Panisonic is 2X I would be willing to pay if the difference if it is like comparing a tube TV to a LCD or Plasma.

 

Same goes with the cameras, I would like the high res 480 tvl and with at least one camera, good IR to see with little or no ambient light. Later on, I plan to add more cameras.

 

If I go with a PC based DVR is this reliable? I am sure that the features are great, but I want to set it and forget it. I am affraid that a PC will need babysitting. That is acceptable if you have a full time person montitoring your system in a large scale comercial application, but not in a home were you may be gone for weeks at a time.

 

I know you know your stuff, so I appreciate your input.

 

Thanks

[rory 0]

Hi,

 

Yep the PC "can" be reliable, ive had good luck with the Geo cards for the last half a year, the systems i installed have been running and never had to go back. Just installed a 480/480 16 channel 750Gb system at a night club which we upgraded from a stand alone system (GE) i put in 5 years ago, but he wanted real time, and the extra features, and higher quality evidence sharing, thats where the PCs rule, high quality back up, provided you are using decent cameras ofcourse.

 

The cards are stable and so is the software, the Windows XP system needs to be "tweaked" properly and then you will not have any issues. You can upgrade the HDDs any time you need to, and if a better card comes out later on, then you can always switch the card out and not worry about a new system, unless you want to upgrade the PC guts also. They are always upgrading their software though, and adding new features and such.

 

I run a 2 channel Geo card in my system , minimized, and its on 24/7. I restart it manually every few days or so, but with the PC systems in the field i set the DVR software to reboot once a day at a certain time, which varies from one to the next. You can however have the running without reboot for much longer, i just do it incase. The 2 chanell and 4 channel GV250's are 20fps, while they also have 30-480fps cards, the price goes up. The GV250s work in almost any PC, im using a 3 year old refurbished AMD 2.0 Ghz Via with 512DDR ram and a 128MB Saphire Radeon Video card. Note the Via Chipset PCs are much cheaper than Intel or SIS, but most 30fps and above cards dont work with Via Chipsets, hence using the 20fps card. I like the IR remote control that you can get along with the Geo cards, and the full screen feature with camera pop up and siren on motion, which goes back to multi view after a few seconds, as well as the start minimized or full screen in various user modes, so you can lock regular users out from the actual system part of it.

 

Iview is also a solid PC card, i have a couple in the field and they havent caused an issue yet, they have been running since earlier this year. Less features but cheaper than the Geo. Im sticking with the Geo for now though.

 

A Stand alone is nice for sticking in a closet and forgetting about it, the GE are rock solid in thar area, not cheap but good for a stand alone DVR and powerful remote software.

 

From what you said I dont think the Avtech will work for your requirements, you might not be happy, i mean it is a decent DVR for basic Ops but has some limitations, primarily motion detection recording reliability and the remote software. The lorex will be same as far as limitations.

 

A couple cheaper alternatives to the GE and Pano, would be the Nuvico and Sanyo, i havent used either myself but heard good things. It would be good to check some of the reviews on this forum for the 2 DVRs.

 

If you dont mind paying the extra dollars then you could step up to the GE StoreSafe, it is 30fps, then there is the StoreSafe Pro which is 60fps. Using motion detection recording it will distribute the fps among the cameras which are picking up motion at the time. You can program the DVR using the network software also, from anywhere with an Internet connection, including changing Motion Zones, Recording Settings, Camera names, etc. Everything but the network and password set up, which inititally needs to be done locally. I used these for almost 5 years, until earlier this year when i switched to PC based for other reasons (35-45% on DVRs, 0% duty on PCs being a leading factor).

 

The pano is more and i dont think its worth it. The DM also cost more than the GE but is not as good, it is imported from the UK hence the heavier cost.

 

The cameras are another issue, you mentioned IR.

 

What are the locations for each camera?

Where and what is the IR camera going to be looking at, distance to object, trees in way, white walls or surfaces, etc?

 

Rory

[Daryl733 0]

Thanks for the input. Does that mean that the contractors recs were junk?

 

Daryl what hook up would I need to view from any TV in the house. All TV's have at least 1 coax home run to ONQ distribution panel, so if necessary couldn't I use a modulator or something along those lines from an output on the DVR? And how do your DVR recs compare to Sanyo DSR-3009?

 

Thanks

 

For TV wised, it's better to consult others. I live in different part of the world and the cable/standard's slightly different from yours. But if you had alreayd run extra coax, just hook them up to a video distributor and then use A/V input of your TV to see.

 

Personally, i'd never tried sanyo yet although i know the local distributor. So i can't give you a dvr-dvr comparision for that according to personal usage.

 

As for PC based, I'm trying hard to stay away from them.

Regardless of the DVR hardware/software stability, i do get occassional NTLR not found/please insert boot disk/etc from the OS itself. Resulting from improper shutdown/power trip/rebooting cycle. It might not be the pc/user fault, but guess who they contact whenever such problem occurs.

And some of these DVR are not assembled by us, but by the manufacture of the DVR card and we ship them in direct. So if the manufecture can't get it right............. who else can ? One prob i notice from PC based system is overtime, it tends to get slowed down. Not only the DVR portion, but when the window's starting up, it takes longer than what i remember in the initial phase and 6 months later.