Dead DVR - need an hybrid upgrade

[benko 0]

Hello to all

 

I am currently having 8 SD BNC cameras (8 years old) which are working flawlessly. They are all connected to my 2 year old DVR, which worked fine until now, it has broken and I need a change.

 

Since I am thinking of adding 4 new (IP, HD) cameras, I am not sure which system I should choose.

 

So, option 1 is to get a new PC, which will need to run all 8 SD cameras + those 4 new IP cameras.

Second option is to get a new 8 channel DVR for SD cameras and buy another one (NVR?) for IP cameras.

 

A must is to have 25 fps per channel recording/viewing !

 

For now I think it is better for PC option, but not sure which DVR card should I get. I have seen that Geovision has hybrid cards in offer, but not sure how it works, since new, IP cameras use LAN(RJ-45) connector and SD cameras use BNC connector ?!?

 

Hope you can help.

 

Benko

[william_netvisiondvr 0]

Hi Benko,

You are right there are two options:

1. Use a PC based software + Video&Audio Compression cards, of course the software has to support to access IP cameras.

2. Use a standalone Hybrid DVR device, which supports to access analogue cameras and IP cameras at the same time.

There are many such solution.

[MaxIcon 0]

I've been using an Aver NV6480 16 channel hybrid card and it works very well, though I only use it for IP cams, no analog. It's not cheap if bought new, but it doesn't require a high power PC. Mine's running on an old 1st gen i3-540 PC. They also make the less expensive NV6240, but it's only 8 channel.

 

Bluecherry makes more affordable cards. You want to check their specs carefully and make sure they have drivers for your PC (64 bit vs 32 bit, etc), as well as searching on the models to see how they've worked out for other people.

http://store.bluecherry.net/capture-cards

 

 

For hybrids, you connect the BNCs to a cable at the card, and it gets the IP cam data from the PC's network connection. All my IP cams connect to a POE switch, which is part of the network, and the PC connects to another switch.

 

The other option is to set up a PC as an NVR and get a couple of 4 channel encoders for the analog cams. I almost did this when I switched over to IP cams, but decided I'd be better off buying IP cams instead of encoders, and just retired my analog cams.

 

Best bet is to put together a list of options, what they'd cost, and how long each solution would work for you. Long-term, a high power PC running NVR software and a couple of Bluecherry cards might be the most flexible option, as you can retire the analog cams and inexpensive cards when you move to more IP cams.

[benko 0]

A-ha, so here we are a PoE switch.

 

I am currently having a Netgear WRND3700 router, and I have 2 ports available. But i will get, if I decide a Netgear PoE switch (8 port).

 

Ok, lets assume I will get a PC solution. Does cpu/ram have influence on perfomanse. Since I need stable 25fps per channel (on SD(full D1) and HD (1.3 Mpx)) or it only depends on card (analog) and camera (IP). I can get a i5 Ivy bridge system for pretty good price, but not sure will it be able to handle in future even more cameras (lets say total 16).

 

If I understanded correctly when says that DVR card is hybrid it onyl means it will detect ip's via my network. I can get 8 channel card and use extra 4 IP cameras, there shouldnt be problem (even with 25 fps rate recording/displaying) ?

 

EDIT: Will run Win7 64bit or a 32bit, but would prefer 64

[MaxIcon 0]

For POE switches, there are 2 things to look out for:

 

- Make sure they have POE on enough ports - some only offer it on, say, 4 out of 8 ports.

- Check the total power budget. Many switches only supply 7-8 Watts average per port when all ports are used, rather than the full 15.4 W the spec provides for. An 8 port full power switch would have a 123 W power budget. How much this matters depends on the power draw of your cams.

 

For the PC, it totally depends on what NVR software you use. Some use low CPU, some use high. This can be affected by whether the camera or software does motion detect, whether it transcodes the video or writes what comes off the camera, and other stuff. Some care about lots of RAM, some don't.

 

Generally, more MP and higher frame rates require higher CPU power. A bunch of D1 cams are easy to support, but as you add more MP cams, the CPU has to work a lot harder.

 

Cost is a factor, too. Some software requires a per-camera license, annual upgrade fees, and such, others don't. Likewise, making sure the software supports your cameras is critical.

 

I run 2 systems:

 

- Blue Iris, which is inexpensive, has great features and support, and no per-cam license, but requires a pretty powerful PC to support a lot of MP. Mine is on an i5-3570k, and currently runs 9 cams, 12MP total, 10 fps with no problem (65% CPU utilization, bumping to 80% when I connect a remote client viewer), but it's close to its limit. It wouldn't support 25 fps (or even 15 fps) with the same cams. There's a BI user forum over at cam-it.org with a lot of posts about PC performance.

 

- Aver NV6480 hybrid in an i3-540 box, which is much less powerful than the i5-3570k. On this, CPU usage depends on how many cams you display on the matrix, not how many you're recording. This records the same cams as above full time, with about 25% CPU, and I ran it for a while at 22MP, 10 FPS, with no problems. This is a backup system, so I leave it on 1 cam display to keep CPU and power usage down.

 

Best bet is to find some free or demo versions of software packages and test them out with your setup to see how they work and how you like them. There are lots of discussions of various packages in the IP cam forum here.

 

For the card, it's important to read the specs closely, and make sure it'll support all your cams at full resolution and frame rate. Some can be misleading in the way they spec things, and require you to drop frame rate or resolution as you add more cams. You also want to google for user reviews of the card to see how people like them.

 

The Aver lets you select IP or analog for each channel, and allows either for all 16 channels. You'd have to check on how other boards work - the less expensive Aver NV5000 can be expanded to 8 channels total, but only the first 4 can be IP cams.

[benko 0]

For a PoE switch, would get a GS110TP-100EUS Netgear Switch [http://www.ebay.de/itm/NetGear-ProSafe-GS110TP-Gigabit-Smart-Switch-with-PoE-GS110TP-100EUS-/400579944245?pt=DE_Computing_Netzwerk_Switches&hash=item5d446cdf35], so that should be fine.

 

Since I will be using a i5 (also 3570k, lil' bit overclocked system with 8 Gigs of RAM (so 64bit must have) what card would you recommend me (software must be woithout annual fees, so one paid use it forever?

 

So I have 8 SD cams, I am not planing to get any new of those (enough of analog for me ) more and will be getting 4 2Mpx cams, but will get an 8 PoE switch since the price is pretty similar for 8 and 4 channel (only 50€ difference) and maybe in really late future (5 years from now) would get extra IP cams (4k ? )

 

A must for me is 25 fps, I really want smooth video and don't need long term store (3weeks) so compression does not have to be high, and I believe 1TB HDD will be enough for that. Oh and ability to watch from Android/iPhone real-time (even though I really rare use that feature).

[MaxIcon 0]

It would depend on your budget.

 

If you could afford an NV6480 card, I've had good luck with mine, but I got it cheap on ebay; they're very expensive new. It comes with robust NVR software, and should work fine on your system.

 

If you want to keep the cost down, I'd look at one or two of the bluecherry cards for the SD analog cams (whatever configuration would work for 8 cams) and Blue Iris to record the IP cams and the bluecherry outputs. This should work well with your current system.

 

Blue Iris is a good starting point, as it's not expensive and doesn't have ongoing fees for licensing or whatever. It also supports a wide variety of cams, NVRs, and capture cards. There's a demo version that's good for checking out how well it works for you.

 

Another BI option, instead of capture cards, would be to get an inexpensive analog DVR that BI supports. Some users have Zmodo DVRs that they view and record from BI, for instance.

 

I'd do 2 things to work out this decision:

 

- Ask about a good hybrid solution in the IP cam forum here (along with with your budget), as it gets a lot more traffic than this one, and many of the people posting are familiar with a lot more systems than I am.

 

- Go to BI's user forum, cam-it.org, and search on things like DVR and bluecherry, as well as asking for other people's recommendations.

 

The main benefit of this option is that you can convert from analog to IP cams as you go along without needing a whole new system, though you may need different software to support a lot of MPs at a high frame rate, since BI puts quite a load on even a powerful system in that situation.

[benko 0]

What about getting one of these [ http://www.ebay.de/itm/221292402672?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 ] <.. If I see correctly it can record 25fps per chanell ?!? for Analog and than later get something separate for IP's ?

 

Since that NV6480 is pretty damn expansive !

 

I have one problem with those IP's and switch. I do not have cable set-up for them, since I did installation 3 years ago I only have BNC + power.

 

Since all cameras are on ground-floor and my DVR (or PC) is on first floor I need to set-up new cables. Since I do have one Rj-45 cable (CAT 5e) that is connected to my switch(10/100/1000Mbit) is it possible to set new PoE router in ground-floor and than via that one RJ-45(which is currently free) cable connect it with PC ?

[tomcctv 190]

Hi you can also buy avers as standalone such as the nano 16 which will run your existing cameras and 4 ip upto a total of 8mp

 

Or there pc based upto a total of 80 mp

[benko 0]

Hi you can also buy avers as standalone such as the nano 16 which will run your existing cameras and 4 ip upto a total of 8mp

 

Or there pc based upto a total of 80 mp

 

Yes, I had standalone DVR for 2 years and it died. Before I had PC and it was running fine 6 years than I need it for smth else and it still runs fine. That is why I am more lean to PC based solution.

 

But those cards are REALLY expansive, for same price I can get standalone Hybrid DVR, and I haven't counted additional price for PC by-itself...

 

I think that for 200-250$ I can get a decent card(25 fps per channel, 16 total) or not possible ?

[MaxIcon 0]

Yeah, cost is a problem for decent hybrid capability. The NV6480 cards sometimes go for as little as $200 used, but you have to keep a sharp eye out, and you don't get a warranty with it.

 

Lots of people like the Nanos, but I don't have any experience with them.

 

The only affordable cards I'm familiar with at all are the bluecherry cards, and those only through other people's posts. They're not top end, which is why they're less expensive.

 

Best bet is to ask around more and see what other people suggest. Try a search here and at cam-it.org for bluecherry to see if they might do what you need.

[benko 0]

Ok, got new DVR, just for analog part, 8 channels, 25fps per channel. Satisfied so far with it, picture quality good, playback smooth!

 

Would like to get somehow that I am able to watch what is happening(so streaming channels) in network and on the Ineternet(using Andoird phone). DVR supports it, but user manual has really poor description.

 

Maybe you can help a litlle. Here are settings

and this is what it tells me when I enter IP adress(192.168.1.127:80) in browser ( I have installed plugin[it copied few files into system32 folder and windows firewall asked me if I want to allow acess], but still same)

 

EDIT: Managed to connect, but only black widondows, tried on Xp, IE7 and Win7 IE9, on chrome plugin simply does not work(picture above)

Here is screenshot for IE

[MaxIcon 0]

Looks like the tech support people need to help out. You're almost there.

 

For Android, try ip cam viewer free, which supports a lot of cameras and dvrs. The free version only supports 6 channels, but if it works, the pro version is only $4.

[benko 0]

Looks like the tech support people need to help out. You're almost there.

 

For Android, try ip cam viewer free, which supports a lot of cameras and dvrs. The free version only supports 6 channels, but if it works, the pro version is only $4.

 

Thanks for answer will try it, if it works, $4 is definitly worth it.