Fired Employee Revenge- Looking for System

[eyal8r 0]

Hey guys-

Long story short- we fired an employee and it's been a huge legal mess. We have a feeling that he is going to break into the office and steal/trash the place. Obviously, we'd like to get a system in place before that happens. The goal is to capture FACES of anyone who breaks in. I have a couple former long term cops working for us, and they both say the same thing- too many cam systems are wasted because it shows what the theif did, but could not identify them. I want to make sure the system we go with avoids this problem.

 

I've been reading this forum the past week, and like many others- my head is spinning. I'll keep it brief as to what we need and looking for.

 

6-8 IP Cameras (no less than 1080p). Must have decent IR.

NVR wired system

Easy to install/maintain, add additional cameras as needed, etc.

Ability to login via browser off site, as well as iOS devices.

Store footage for 2 weeks at a time.

No choppy footage, looking for smooth, full action from all cams.

Budget- $2-3k

 

-We have 2 storage garages- 1 is about 15'x22', the other is 24'x24' or so. I'm thinking a dome cam in each of those- something with a wide enough angle so we can get the entire area. The goal here is to mount the cam INSIDE the garage, either on ceiling or wall, so we can recognize faces easily as well as monitor activity (not only burglary but also during business hours to watch employees and see if they're 'working'). At night there's no additional lighting inside and is pretty pitch black, so IR would have to be decent. It's a fairly small space so don't think I need anything 'hardcore'?

 

- Inside the office is the main room where everyone works for the most part. It's also a portal to other hallways to individual offices as well as the entry doors (front, back and warehouse). Again I'm thinking a dome cam or two here, but would like to capture faces. In this room it'd be GREAT if we had 1-way audio so I could listen in on occasion if I needed to. Otherwise this is to monitor employees and potential burglars. At night we usually have some lighting on, but not 100% all the time.

 

- Outside the office- thinking a couple Bullet Cams for now.

 

I've seen systems at CostCo and whatnot- but am open to suggestions on what to get and where to get it from. I'd REALLY appreciate any help you can give!

Thanks!

[PokerMunkee 0]

If I was installing this, I'd pay about $3K for a 16 channel NVR. Then I'd buy a bunch of 3MP Hikvision bullet cameras at $220 a piece. So if you want 9, that's another $2,000.

 

So with PoE switches, cable, cameras, and NVR, you are looking at around $5,500. Not including labor, which is probably fixed if you are doing yourself.

 

You just need to figure out which NVR system to go with. I personally use 3xLogic's Vigil (3xlogic.com) as I'm very familiar with them. They have a great app for Android/iPhone. You can also use the client remotely or just plain HTTP.

 

I think you are on the right track, sounds like you have an idea what you want.

 

Here is my post with pictures of the Hikvision 3MP bullets, gives you an idea: viewtopic.php?p=229302#p229302

[JoeyJoey 0]

This Lorex (Hikvision re-badged) has 9 cameras, from Costco, $2k.

 

http://www.costco.com/Lorex-16-Channel-Full-HD-NVR-Security-System-with-3TB-HDD-and-9-1080p-Cameras.product.100087415.html

[buellwinkle 0]

The trick with surveillance is to have overview cameras that shows what's going on say in a large room. A 3MP camera is more than enough for this and give you good detail. Mount it high to get the details of the event. Then you need close-up cameras at what we call choke points, a place where the subject has to pass through to get in or out. Keep these cameras low, ideally at eye level as you don't want a picture of the top of their heads.

 

Indoors, either get the Hikvision DS-2CD2732F-iS, very nice 3MP varifocal some, runs about $259 or get ACTi D55 3MP indoor domes, about 256 from an authorized dealer. Those are the best bang for the buck for indoor IR domes. Axis does not make a 1080P IR dome, so can't recommend that.

 

With ACTi, you can run their NVR software for free for up to 16 cameras, works very well. You can get an inexpensive PC for about $299 and get you started or repurpose a pc you already have. Very easy to use and easy to export videos for the PO.

 

With Hikvision, you can get their NVR, but I would go with Milestone XProtect Essential, $49/camera for the software but commercial grade software and run it on an inexpensive PC. I would avoid NVR software for the home market that's inexpensive but may not work as you expect.

 

Lastly, you'll need a PoE switch and running 6-8 3MP cameras, I would go with a GiGe PoE switch if you can or at least one with with a GigE uplink. The best bang for the buck may be the Ubiquiti 8 port Tough Switch, GigE, 48V PoE and is a managed switch, runs about $200. If you want to go cheap and your PC has multiple Ethernet ports, get two 4 ports switches, one for each NIC and have 2 subnets.

[eyal8r 0]

Does anyone know what the specs are, or the model # on the CostCo Lorex NVR and Cams? 3MP? How many IR LEDs? etc???

 

Thanks!

[buellwinkle 0]

Should be on their site at http://www.lorextechnology.com. They are made by Hikvision, but neutered to 2MP (Hikvision branded version is 3MP). I recently did reviews under the Hikvision brand name, ds-2cd2132-i mini dome and the ds-2cd2032-i mini bullet.

 

The domes are 2-axis, meaning you can only really mount them on the ceiling (not surface wall mounted), so I would recommend their next model up in my original response. The bullets are real nice but not sure you want them indoors as anyone passing by can shift them, move them with a broom handle. Domes are inherently more vandal proof and look cleaner, more professional indoors.

 

Also, for what it's worth, there's absolutely no relationship on the number of LEDs to how effective they are. There are some new cameras with 1 LED that are equal to cameras with 25 LEDs. Also, they are better because with 1 LED, the LED and lens are separated, no chance of IR light bleed. With a ring of LED's surrounding a lens, there's a chance of IR light bleed as the foam around the lens that separates the two hardens.

[luckyfella 0]

If I was installing this, I'd pay about $3K for a 16 channel NVR. Then I'd buy a bunch of 3MP Hikvision bullet cameras at $220 a piece. So if you want 9, that's another $2,000.

 

So with PoE switches, cable, cameras, and NVR, you are looking at around $5,500. Not including labor, which is probably fixed if you are doing yourself.

 

You just need to figure out which NVR system to go with. I personally use 3xLogic's Vigil (3xlogic.com) as I'm very familiar with them. They have a great app for Android/iPhone. You can also use the client remotely or just plain HTTP.

 

I think you are on the right track, sounds like you have an idea what you want.

 

Here is my post with pictures of the Hikvision 3MP bullets, gives you an idea: viewtopic.php?p=229302#p229302

 

 

Holy cow, 3k for an NVR? Would you like to buy a bridge I'm selling?

[eyal8r 0]

Awesome- thanks for the info.

 

Questions-

Where's the best place to buy the cameras from (ie- cheapest?)

 

Which cameras offer the 1 LED you are talking about- and what kind of price are they? I'm sure they're much nicer and more expensive than these, just curious. They're probably overkill for my needs here. I think these Hikvisions are probably more than enough for what I'm doing- but still curious

 

Lastly- if I build my own system (I already have a PC that's fairly new, and not doing anything now- perfect for this project)- are there any limitations in software if I upgrade cameras later down the road?

 

How 'set it and forget it' is the DIY system you're suggesting? I know I can tinker with it for a while to my heart's content, I just need to get something up and running ASAP.

 

Thanks!

[eyal8r 0]

BTW- how does the one you're talking about compare to this one?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16881400019

[eyal8r 0]

Also- what's the process for hooking up sound on these dome cameras? I just need 1-way audio so I can hear what's going on. Do I need to buy a separate mic, or is that built in? Can I get audio from multiple dome cams on the same network at the same time?

Thanks!

[rayt 0]

http://wrightwoodsurveillance.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_83 has slightly better prices, i've bought a few from them before.

[buellwinkle 0]

These inexpensive Hikvision domes/bullets do not have audio. Just finished testing the next model up with audio and it has mic-in and audio-in, the DS-2CD2732F-IS cost you about $259 for the dome and way better than the mini dome at the same place RayT got his from. I'll have the review up in a few days, maybe Monday/Tuesday, just waiting for time to proof-read it.

 

The single LED bullet I've reviewed that I like is the ACTi D32 also 3MP, fairly inexpensive for an ACTi. Also, Hikvision has the DS-2CD2332-I with 1 LED, same place as before for $169. Some people really like it.

 

In theory you can run the Hikvision iVMS software for free, some people got it working, I could not get it to record. ACTi provides excellent software for free but mostly for their cameras. On the low end, you can get BlueIris Software for $37 on eBay, but download the trial version to see if you like it. There's a free version of Milestone XProtect Go, 8 cameras, 5 days recording but is commercial quality software. You can use an old PC, I run an old i3-540, works fine for my 8 cameras.

[eyal8r 0]

ok- so I have a computer with Windows Home Server 2011 on it. Will that work with any of the software? Or do I need to get Windows 7/8 instead?

 

Once the software is installed, is it pretty plug-n-play? Or is there a lot of configuring? I just don't want to get too bogged down setting this all up. That's why the CostCo pre-packaged systems/nvr's are appealing to me. However, I'm open to doing it if, long term, gives me the most upgradability and more open to new technologies/cameras, etc. Essentially, do I get a better system for the same money by building the NVR myself?

[buellwinkle 0]

Yes, most were written long before Win 7/8 back in the Win XP days so should run fine on Server 2011. Installing is as easy as any Windows software.

 

No matter which way you go, you have to setup motion detection parameters, alerts notifications, remote access, camera names, NTP server or time and DST settings, layout settings and that's what requires the majority of effort. My guesstimate is it will take about 12% more effort to setup NVR software over a hardware NVR but everyone's skillset is different, it's a learning curve either way. I would say the biggest differentiator in level of effort is you'll have to setup the cameras one by one for IP address where the NVR assigns them automagically.

 

But there's also advantage to the PC and having cameras on their own switch, for example, being able to connect individually to each cameras to tweak parameters not available via the NVR, to troubleshoot problems and you can't do that if they are attached to the internal PoE ports. Not to mention future expansion, an 8 port NVR can never have a 9th camera, a Swann NVR cannot have say an Avigilon camera attached to it. So say a year from now, you find the perfect camera, made by someone else, so at that point you switch to software, but you have the learning curve all over again.

 

 

 

The bundles are a good value but limits your camera choices to what they have. Also typically limited to 1080P.

[eyal8r 0]

Ahhh- makes a lot of sense. I'll go ahead and build my own, since I like the idea of future proofing, and not being limited to hdd space. I need to record/save for about 16 days at a time, so I'll need quite a bit of expandability options.

 

With that said- it seems as if you lean towards Acti over the Hikvisions, is that right? Any pros/cons to either?

 

Also- the Milestone XProtect Essential- is the $49/cam per year, or a one time purchase price? I can't find any pricing info on their site.

 

Any other software you'd recommend that would allow me to hook up nearly any brand camera in the future as I grow into the system?

 

Thanks for the help! " title="Applause" />

[eyal8r 0]

Actually-

Reading your reviews on the software now. With Milestone- can it

1) Record continuously on one camera, while separately logging motion detection on the same camera? This way I can go back and review JUST the events that were picked up by motion detection as needed- but have the full, continuous footage if I ever need it?

 

2) Record audio from all the cameras?

 

Thanks!!!

[buellwinkle 0]

Yes, you can have it track events and record full time and marks the motion events. Better yet, you can just record full time and then do a bit search for motion in a specific area. For example, say you had someone steal something from your mailbox, you can search for motion just in front of the mailbox.

 

I also had Milestone record audio recently when testing a camera that has 2-way audio, in my case the Hikvision 3mp varifocal dome (not the mini-dome) for a review I should have ready by Tuesday.

 

Hikvision or ACTi depends on you, but I have both, happy with both. ACTi provides very good free NVR software but you pay for non-ACTi cameras. Not even 100% sure what that price is since that aspect is new, but if interested I can find out. It also can do full time recording and mark the motion detect events but does not have a search feature.

 

Milestone XProtect Essential is $99 for the base (first 2 cameras), $49 per camera. Prices are somewhat controlled through authorized distributors or resellers, so not going to a huge swing in price. They have a concept caller SUP or Software Upgrade Plan. You can pay to guarantee future releases. You get one year free, so if you pay say for a 3 year plan, you get 3 additional years of upgrades. You don't have to take this, you may be happy with the current release forever. It's not hugely expensive, for example, 3 years is I believe $20/camera.

[eyal8r 0]

Buell-

Thank you for all the time you've spent helping me! I really appreciate it!

 

After spending MANY MANY hours researching- it seems like you're right on for what I need. I'm going to building my own, use the Milestone, and go with the Hikvision DS-2CD2732F-I(S) 3MP Domes (4-5 of them for now) for the interior of the office, as well as warehouse areas.

 

Questions-

1) Where's a good place to buy these (you can PM me if you want). Seems like I can find the Chinese versions for $259. However, I can get it from AliExpress for $200 shipped. I assume that's also the Chinese versions.

 

2) Where can I get the US version, and how much can I expect to spend?

 

3) For my outdoor use- I'm trying to decide between just using these, or the Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I Bullet cam. Seems like the dome has vari-lens up to 12mm as well (but IS more expensive than the bullet for the same lens length). Is there an advantage to using the bullet over the dome? Again, where's the best place to buy the bullet?

 

4) I know you recommended the Switch earlier in this thread, so I'll probably go with that (haven't researched those at all). Should I go with Cat5e cables? Anything specific I need to know before I order those, or will any Cat5e work?

 

Thank you SOO much!

[eyal8r 0]

BTW- just found this switch for a little cheaper- your thoughts?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833150095

[buellwinkle 0]

Nice switch, but how are you going to power the cameras, 12V adapters? I would look for a PoE switch that way you connect and power the cameras from one Ethernet cable.

[PokerMunkee 0]

I like domes when inside, look better especially on a drop ceiling. I use bullets for outside and warehouses. Bullets usually are better at night than domes when using built in IR.

 

I use this switch on small installs: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122077

It has 12 PoE ports. For $100 more, you can get another model that has 24 PoE ports. Been running these Netgears in casinos for 5 years now, never had a failure or downtime. Lifetime warranty.

[firegoldlynx 0]

I use this switch on small installs: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122077

It has 12 PoE ports.

How is the fan noise on this unit, looking for something like this that runs quiet.

Edit : Just saw this review

Cons: ......but fan is really loud and therefore cannot be placed in a room where someone will be working. You need a server closet for this switch.

[Boogieman 1]

I use this switch on small installs: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122077

It has 12 PoE ports.

How is the fan noise on this unit, looking for something like this that runs quiet.

Edit : Just saw this review

Cons: ......but fan is really loud and therefore cannot be placed in a room where someone will be working. You need a server closet for this switch.

funny, con came from my review.... it is loud and the person sitting in the room could not tolerate it.....I just don't get why no one makes a switch that is sized like a pc power supply with a large fan and quiet...

[PokerMunkee 0]

You should hide the switch and NVR somewhere where no one can easily get to it. A locked server cabinet works well. I like putting them up in the ceiling. The 4 port PoE switches are quiet, usual fan less with external PSU.

[eyal8r 0]

Nice switch, but how are you going to power the cameras, 12V adapters? I would look for a PoE switch that way you connect and power the cameras from one Ethernet cable.

 

Oops- yeah, forgot to look for that spec!

 

Question-

Is there a point (ie- # of cams running at 1080p - 3MP+, 15+fps) where you would need a 2nd nic on your computer just to handle the bandwidth? In other words, if I'm using the 8 port POE switch and running all 8 cams at 3MP- will the single Cat5e into my computer handle that kind of bandwidth? Or would I need to install a 2nd Nic, 2nd switch, etc at a certain point?

 

I just don't want to have my cam resolutions limited due to bandwidth.