ysolongtoregister? 0 Posted November 24, 2013 That get your attention?! So... one of the requirements that the state imposes on growers in this new recreational market is the implementation of a video surveillance system. Specifics are as follows: IP compatible with minimum camera resolution of 640x470 the storage device MUST be secured on-site continuous recording 24 hours a day (not just motion based) minimum 45 days recording maintained on site Ability to record clearly in the dark This is NOT my arena. I (and many others I know) have security systems in place but the video surveillance is a bit foggy. I have looked at the low end systems, like swann, defender, lorex, etc. and while the price is what I'm hoping for I don't know if they can pull off what we need. Like everyone I don't want to spend a bunch of cash. If my facility gets broken into the video surveillance won't stop it or prevent it - what's done is done. What I'm looking to do is get a system that can satisfy the state's requirements while keeping costs to a minimum. I will need 8 cameras with possible an additional 4 more in the future. I have read thru many of the posts but thought I would just put this out for folks to help on - I hope!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Q2U 0 Posted November 24, 2013 Eight ( 2MP 1080P cameras @ $180.00 each = $1,440.00 Intel I7 PC with an appropriate processor & disk(s) to support archival requirements = $1,000.00 12 port POE switch = ??? ($500.00?) VMS software = $100.00 Cable & installation hardware & tools = $200.00 You're looking at $3,240.00 IMO (providing your capable of doing the installation). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted November 24, 2013 Eight ( 2MP 1080P cameras @ $180.00 each = $1,440.00 Intel I7 PC with an appropriate processor & disk(s) to support archival requirements = $1,000.00 12 port POE switch = ??? ($500.00?) VMS software = $100.00 Cable & installation hardware & tools = $200.00 You're looking at $3,240.00 IMO (providing your capable of doing the installation). Going to need a lot more money invested into the server for the storage requirements. 8 2MP cameras recording 24/7 for 45 days Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ysolongtoregister? 0 Posted November 24, 2013 storage is my initial concern also. Seemed most of the low end DVR systems lacked the ability to store data externally. 45 days of 8 cameras going 24/7 seemed like a lot of data to me... Do I need a 1080p camera? Also, I have concerns about the night vision of the cameras as some of you may know cannabis is extremely light sensitive and I need it to be DARK at night, even the glow of an LED on a power strip is enough to cause nearby plants to turn hermaphrodite. I appreciate the help so far - anyone have any more thoughts??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
51cent 8 Posted November 25, 2013 IP compatible with minimum camera resolution of 640x470 You don't need 1,2 or 3mp cameras, unless you actually want to identify those kids grabbing some doobies. Just go for what the standards call for, and save some money. You can store a lot more video with 640x470 than mp video. Look into 940nm IR lighting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ysolongtoregister? 0 Posted November 25, 2013 IP compatible with minimum camera resolution of 640x470 You don't need 1,2 or 3mp cameras, unless you actually want to identify those kids grabbing some doobies. Just go for what the standards call for, and save some money. You can store a lot more video with 640x470 than mp video. Look into 940nm IR lighting. That's what I'm looking for. Not saying that the camera system is not without value its just that in my opinion its what the state wants - and more for what I or my employees do than what happens if I get broken into, and if I get broken into the damage is done. If I were to buy or build a system around the standards they request what would you experts suggest? What type of 940nm IR cameras? What type of storage? Help me build this or buy a package if you can. I can see having more interest in "doing this right" down the road if I expand and have a better idea what I want - not what the state requires... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted November 25, 2013 If you don't see any value in keeping an eye on your employees or monitoring your business processes then stick with the the minimum requirements. Storage will be your biggest cost in the and you are going to have a very hard time finding budget systems that will have enough storage for 45 days of continuous storage. On a side note I would love to meet the bone head who came up with the specs for this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Q2U 0 Posted November 25, 2013 Dude...what we were talking about?... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ysolongtoregister? 0 Posted November 25, 2013 The entire thing is a bit of a circus right now - our state liquor control board has been tasked with implementing the recreation marijuana initiative and while they did contract a "crack team" of professional consultants to help draft the rules many of them leave the bulk of us scratching our heads. I have a small operation in which I will be there on site every day with 2 other employees. Down the road if I expand the operation and increase my staff I would absolutely want to look at a "real" system but for now I need to satisfy the state and I want to do it as easily and inexpensively as possible. Once things begin to shake out I would imagine that specs and rules will be adjusted to make a bit more sense... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RVT 0 Posted November 25, 2013 Do they have minimum spec of Frames per Second to be recorded? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted November 25, 2013 You haven't described your facility, address, directions, combination to the locks Seriously though, how big is your place? How have you come to the conclusion that eight cameras will suffice? What and how many areas are you covering? Typical IR cameras make a red glow at night that is faintly visable to the eye but it's not like LED glow and they should be installed 10' or so up, so the actual glow from IR would not reach plants to cause problems unless your plants are towering right in front of the cameras. Define IP compatable? Such as, a typcial analog system that can be networked to view remotely? That requirement is gonna matter greatly as to which system you actually need to buy- analog or IP/MP- the latter being much more expensive. For what you desire, you want the answer to be analog. This is a full package and the only reason I link to it instead of a cheaper qsee package on amazon is because this dvr can take large hard drives. Pop in a 4tb for 1,237 or a 6tb for 1,550 bucks. If you want more real estate out of the drive you could try setting the recording mode to a 'combo' mode of continuous/motion recording. Keep continuous recording set to 1fps and set motion to 15fps. This way it'll record 24/7 at a low but completely usable 1fps and whenever there is actual motion it'll kick up to 15fps. But I'd guess 4 or 6tb drive even just set on continuous 15fps 24/7 would hold you for the minimum or more. http://www.securitycameraking.com/complete-8-channel-ultimate-mini-59099-prd1.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ysolongtoregister? 0 Posted November 25, 2013 Folks - I really have to say "Thanks" to all of you that have chimed in so far. I have so much wildly varied "out of my ballpark" minutia to comply with on these regulations that my head hurts! There is no minimum spec of frames to be recorded in the rules. The space is not all that large, less than 2000 sq/ft. The 8 camera number was determined by the requirement to video on all entrances & exits from both inside and outside as well as all "secured" rooms within the facility. Fortunately I only have one entrance/exit and the rest of the interior layout is simple for me to envision the setting up. When the rules define "IP compatible" that is all it states... It is our understanding that they want the ability to view or access the system on a network if needed. It's my opinion (just as a few of you have probably suspected) that they really don't now what they are requiring other than a video surveillance system that runs 24/7 backed up for 45 days that they can view on a computer instead of hovering over a vcr connected to a TV! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted November 25, 2013 I'd guess analog would suffice. And that system I linked to has alarm inputs/outputs too, in case they throw in that requirement. It also does audio and it can handle ptz cameras if you needed. I did a video on the unit in my signature link. This type of unit easily hooks up to your router and can be networked to view remotely, so no problem there. You'd need to either temporarily or perminantly dedicate a 17" or 19" monitor to set up the system initially. After that more often than not, you hit the unit remotely or via cellphone app. I have no motivation to frequently recommend SCK products other than I have the unit and it's great. I also shop amazon and 'NS' [shhh], and gadspot as well. When someone like you comes in need of a prepackaged system that can makes sense, I link to one, that's all. And if you think 1,200- 1,500 is a lot, think again. You're lucky they aren't insisting on an IP/Megapixel system at this point...as far as cost, anyway. It's preferred in terms of quality, but an eight channel system with large storage capacity will be costly. Good luck. If you have a headache from all this well...you're surrounded by the remedy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ysolongtoregister? 0 Posted November 25, 2013 Checking out the system in the link and thinking of speaking with SCK for some further model/specifics guidance if you believe they have helpful, knowledgeable reps - if not I will do some shopping and be back with some more specific questions for you all. Please keep in mind that I understand the type of system and solution that I am requesting is garbage in most of your opinions and for those of you who are professional knowledgeable installers I completely understand but I feel that I'm in a bit of a unique situation. I need a specific system that I don't really want! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted November 25, 2013 They're great- give 'em a call if need be. And shop around too. Lots of good product out there. Good luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RVT 0 Posted November 25, 2013 There is no minimum spec of frames to be recorded in the rules. Well, that helps you as far as the having to store 45 days worth is concerned. The lower you set the record rate, the more you can record on a specific disk size. If they don't define "Continuous" then I guess technically you could record (if you can find a system that will allow it) 1 frame a minute or even less. Such a screwed up writing of the law may be a result of non-technical people writing it. Kinda like people that don't know anything about health care trying to write health care laws... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ysolongtoregister? 0 Posted November 25, 2013 Ya, at all the meetings I have attended they have been good enough to listen and change a number of things around as they essentially admit this is outside of their wheelhouse but stuff like this sticks. One of the guys with a bit on an IT background probably brought up the idea and they let him define the specs without anyone else knowing enough to question the final rule... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ysolongtoregister? 0 Posted November 25, 2013 Shockwave - a big Thank You for turning me on to SCK! I spoke to their sales guy Ryan and he was knowledgeable and helpful. Looks like I will get a system that meets the states requirements for under $1200 and from what I see on the reviews people seem to like the product. Thanks folks - I may be back for more help with this once I have the system in hand the installation begins to run off the tracks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
