Light Meters

[rory 0]

i'll get out of bed (well off the couch) for $20, and even go hop in my jeep, just driving down the road is another thing ..

[cctv_down_under 0]

and doing it sober

[sdirge 0]

Thanks for all of the tips!

 

So is this theroy right?

 

Max camera output is 1v peak to peak which can also be defined as 100IRE?

 

So at .5 lux @ f1.2 30IRE would mean the camera is producing a signal 30% of peak at .5 lux with a fstop 1.2 lens?

 

Also I contacted the DVR MFR and they said they need about 75IRE to get a good picture. Am I on the right page with this?

 

Thanks

[jisaac 0]

I also would agree on the fact of not installing the real cheap cameras.

To much work with a cheap camera. But then again I have done alot work on adjusting the panasonic SDIII's. It is just hard to get those dang things right at both day and night.

[rory 0]

day night and easy just dont mix well ..

[cctv_down_under 0]

I have to say that fully tweaked the Pano, is awesome for night and day pictures, it's ability to mechanically adjust the ccd makes it an awesome camera for both day and night!

 

I disagree however with the thought that it is hard to get good images in both lighting conditions, and infact I find 1 camera in particular very easy to use!

 

I use the LTC0495 camera and it is very easy to set for night images, in fact it has a night mode which can be set at the camera or from your laptop, quite simply the mode options are the FIRST options in the menu, so basically all you have to do is click once and your into night mode, and this would be enough for most people, I usually back the gain off just a little, mainly because the camera is FAR too low light sensitive and they set it to maximum condition, and because I am not a big fan of the frame intergration delay, I back this off too.

 

I have to admit most low light cameras are tricky to set up but hardly with Bosch or Panasonic, they both can be adjusted without touching the camera and if you are too lazy to sit in a reclining leather chair and make an adjustment, then you could just click it to night mode.

 

The biggest failing with the other low light cameras that I have seen is they do not have a dynamic shutter, the best thing about the Bosch and Pano is that even in low light mode the shutter can adjust on it's own.

 

Fast objects require shutter speeds that make for low light, but the camera can adjust back to normal speeds on it's own to take advantage of a slower object or an absence of fast objects.

 

I used to save the settings to my laptop and just update each night camera, but I realized that the 30 seconds that this took was actually longer than it took to click into night mode and adjust the gain.

 

I disagree with all that say "just go B/W" because these cameras are capable of keeping colour for very long range and I always suggest to stay in colour for as long as possible, because "The guy that threw the punch had a red shirt with green checkers" is a lot better description than "It was a checkered shirt of some description".

 

I have to admit , B/W is a cheaper option for low light and it is worth considering but if you have a good budget then I would not look past these two brands.

 

The one thing also to look for is a camera that uses the right kind of chip, some chips have pixels that are curved, the reason is that the light concentrated onto the pixels that are square, causes gaps and shadowing and does not allow as much light to be gathered, so magnifying the light and it's gathering ability is excellent and is better than using electronics to magnify (oh yes i know it is still electronics) the ability and it will not cause the camera to overshoot (appear too bright during the day).

 

I am by no means an expert in this area but I have done many shootouts and nothing comes close to Bosch, Pano, Ikegami cameras for this low light ability with clarity.

[rory 0]

Most cameras these days have automatic shutters, and then there is SAGC which sounds alot like Bosche's Sens Up feature.

 

As for BW, are you going to hire a Plumber to build your kitchen cabinet, or a carpenter. I agree todays Day Night single CCD cameras are much better than in the "old" days, but still there is nothing like a decent BW only camera for low light, and a decent Color only for Day Time.

 

As far as I can tell, Bosch is alot of hype, though it has decent specs and Im sure its a great camera, there are other cameras that match it or beat it in performance. They've been advertising like mad since they bought Phillips, same can be said for GE after they bought Kalatel. Marketing really cracks me up sometimes

 

Now, this whole bosch is the best is Deja vue .. but thats okay, thats what this forum is for, opinions on various products and we need people with experience of all different brands. Im not coming down on Bosch, there is another salesperson on here posting the same with their product. And i've even made claim on Exview, though no particular brand.

 

So what I would like to see are more image comparisons, will help people make up their own minds on products, or at least give them some more insight into the products performance other than the manufacturers specs, which are generally incorrect.

[cctv_down_under 0]

I am pretty sure that my intention was exactly that, to watch out for manufactorers specs as they are not entirely accurate (well actually, they are acurate just misleading).

 

I used to only use B/W and Extreme gear, but since using this camera i have very little need to use them very much.

 

I agree about abvertising hype, but I am a firm believer of trying things first, unfortunately, you will never get me to use another camera, so I can not do the comparison for you, even though I have seen it done many times.

 

I agree that Bosch put a big Hype into the market after buying Phillips out, and I have read some of your other posts on the topics at hand, however, I do not work for Bosch or Panasonic and I do speak from very good experience.

 

The truth is that being 15 bit it allows the camera to see more light levels, more scales of colour if you wish to put it that way, this allows the camera to see ranges of colours that other cameras can not, it is not all in the CCD processing it is in a lot of things like electronics and lense etc as explained above, however the data path that is available is akin to describing the difference between a PCI Bus and the new PCI Bus, I can not for the life of me remember the name of it, but it is wider allowing more data.

 

I do not think you can make a blanket statement that B/W is the only way to go without at least trying these two brands out, you are however very correct that specs are not always specs and manufacturers can be very misleading indeed.

 

All I can tell you is that I have done a LOT of installs in low light and I USED to only use B/W and Extreme CCTV gear if no lighting was available.

 

I can honestly tell you I hardly ever need to use the Extreme Gear now because of these two cameras and believe me I would not change my philosophy or outlook on the subject, just to follow some marketing hype.

 

They are excellent cameras and I have used both with great success and I have seen many sites (mainly clubs) where identification could have been achieved, however B/W cameras were used when there was no need.

 

I did not say B/W was not good I simply said that these two cams can almost make it as good but still give you colour for much longer.

[Jasper 0]

Good debate guys.

 

Both funny in addition to being informed.

 

Rory, Would I hire a plumber to do my cabinets, maybe if I though he could do it and he was less expensive.

 

Geekz - I will never use another camera? Yep that's taking a strong position.

[rory 0]

Ill like to see some snapshots also. Also, have you used any Exview cameras?

 

I dont have any use for them in the nigtclubs/bars here, we use vandal domes, but ill probably get a couple 1/2" box cameras for the car park. I think we'll use the Extreme 1/2" cam though .. possibly the pano, perhaps the bosch

 

Anyway, i dont doubt you at all, i can see knowledge in your posts .. gotta excuse me im just not a big bosch fan, not really a fan of OEMs either, I have to doubt all of them until i test them, as we've spend tons of cash over the years testing products and they never are on the mark with their specs, i even doubt GE & some Extreme cameras until i test them

[Cooperman 0]

There used to be an old saying about the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and in a funny way both of you guys, rory and cctvgeeknz, are actually arguing your positions simply based on having had similar experiences.

 

Rory, you don't trust the specs that manufacturers publish and prefer to see the proof for yourself, in the field - who could possibly disagree with that eminently sensible position.

 

cctvgeeknz, you've settled on a product that you confidently feel wipes the floor with most of the opposition, so why bother changing - why indeed? If it works for you, as we say over here, more power to your elbow!

 

The Bosch argument amuses me, only because I remember what happened when RCA became Burle Industries, which was then taken over by Philips, who eventually succumbed to Bosch. At each stage of the company's evolution, they produced world class products .... albeit at world class prices.

 

I always tend to put the argument about camera specs. the other way around; if either of you guys were given a basic piece of kit to work with, I'd confidently predict you'd both manage to get the very best out of it.

If on the other hand you give a mega bucks camera to someone that doesn't know what they're doing, the results would almost certainly be significantly inferior.