Best/Good Camera for Closeup Monitoring

[JasonThick 0]

Hi, I'm looking for recommendations for a camera that is good for close-range viewing in the dark.

 

I'm working in a laboratory setting, monitoring a fixed point about 0.5-1.0 cm wide from about 30-40 cm away. I will be switching from total darkness to a dim lit (monitor lit) condition every 30 sec.

 

So I guess I'm looking for a fixed camera with a good macro lens for night/IR viewing.

 

thanks in advance

[buellwinkle 0]

Many work that close, but be careful as some lower end cameras have glued in place lenses. As an example, indoors, you can use the ACTi D54 or D55, both you can focus manually.

[JasonThick 0]

Thanks for the feedback. I figured many of the ip cameras could record from this distance, but it's hard to find and sample shots from this distance.

 

The other thing that I forgot to mention, is that I need the IR lights to be close to invisible. I have seen some camera with IR lights that are visible to the naked eye as a pink or violet color.

 

Do you know if it is possible to see the IR LEDs with the ACTi D54 and D55 models?

 

thanks again

[buellwinkle 0]

Yes you can see the bulbs glow red on just about all IR camera, but the light being emitted is invisible. They are using 850nm wavelength. They sell illuminators that are 940nm that still glow slightly, but are way less visible but also way less effective so you may need 2-3X the amount of light to be equal to an 850nm illuminator. Illuminator companies like Raytec sell 940nm illuminators as an option, maybe the most cost effective is the RM25, under $400 I believe. People here have tried inexpensive 940nm, not sure anybody was pleased with the results.

 

What some people have done as a budgetary move is to cover the typical 850nm LEDs with fully exposed and process color print film negatives. This seems to filter out the visible wavelength of the LEDs while still providing decent light and in your short distance, likely good enough. Alternatively, people have used the media from floppy discs as filter.

[JasonThick 0]

Yea I know what you mean by the IR lights being visible as a dull glow, but being much brighter in the IR range which is not visible to the naked eye.

 

In this case I was thinking I might turn off or cover the camera LEDs and place a separate set of IR LEDs at a higher height. The dull glow is ok, but I want to keep it out of view of the test subjects. Since the camera is recording their face, the camera LEDs would be in their line of sight.

 

I'm trying to keep costs down, because I'm going to need four of these. I hadn't thought about potentially using some low wavelength filtered film, that might might work well. Does disc material in a floppy disc do a good job? Better than exposed film?

 

I called ACTi and they said they would take a photo with the D55 from 30cm away to give me an idea what the image quality would be like. At the minimum I'm happy with their tech support so far

[tomcctv 190]

Hi. can you give some idea on what you will be recording.

 

 

5mm to 10mm target from 300mm is this a moving target ??? also IR is not needed for that range

[JasonThick 0]

Sure Tom, I'm placing an anesthetized mouse 20 cm from a LCD monitor. Since the mouse is knockout out, I don't care about motion. I just want to be able to monitor the mouse's eyes while he is in front of the computer screen. The mouse's head is about 1.5 cm wide, and I figured I would place the camera above the monitor so that it was approximately 30 cm away.

 

The eyes of the mice sometimes water or foam over when they don't blink, so I am trying to keep track of this. It's a slow process so frame rate isn't too important either.

 

ACTi sent me a shot of a quater from 18in away using the D55. This image looked very good, but the quarter only took up maybe 1% of the entire screenshot. I'm guessing I would have to switch out the lens to get a closer shot? I don't need the quarter, or more specifically the mouse's head to take up 100% of the screen, but as much as possible while still keeping the price of things relatively cheap.

[hardwired 0]

Acti has a 6mm lens (PLEN-4104), and an 8mm lens (PLEN-4103) available, the 8mm would roughly double the size of the object in view. There are other manufacturers of M12 lenses in other focal lengths, also.

 

You could use a lens that is not IR corrected if you are going to be using it only under IR, just focus it during IR operation. IR corrected lenses stay in better focus switching between visible light and IR, but if you are only using one or the other, it will not be a problem.

[JasonThick 0]

I was hoping to to be able to view in the dark as well as under low light (LCD monitor illumination). I am visually stimulating (displaying bars on the LCD monitor) my mice for 30secs, then 30secs darkness, and back and forth.

 

Are these lens all a standard size? Could I potentially use one of the 50mm lens I see listed on aliexpress?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/F02211-CS-Mount-50mm-F1-6-Varifocal-Manual-Zoom-Focal-Ir-Iris-Aperture-Lens-For-CCTV/581546585.html

 

ps do you guys think that the D55 and D54 from ACTi are the best camera for that price range? Are there any comparable cheaper cameras?

[hardwired 0]

As long as you use an IR corrected lens, your mixed lighting environment should be fine. The lens you linked to is a CS type lens, the Acti camera uses a M12 miniature lens. Up to 16mm in that type is fairly common, higher than that is harder to find.

 

The Acti cameras have worked well for us, I have used them for years.

[buellwinkle 0]

I would not get a generic lens for a dome, what if it's too large, wont' fit inside the dome, if it's too short, will create light bleed. If you can get an ACTi lens for that camera, that would be ideal.

[JasonThick 0]

Is the dome required, or just for protection? If it's only for protection, I can leave it off. I'm assuming if I get a 16+ lens it will probably be longer than the stock 3.6mm lens? When I asked the tech support guy at ACTi about replacing the lens, he said I could replace the board lens but that they did not sell any other lens for this model.

 

So far the longest lens I have been able to find with IR correction is a 25mm lens (this one for m12)

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/904813915/25mm_1_2_Mega_Pixels_IR.html

 

I'm still searching for a longer one if anyone knows of any.

 

I think I will go with 4 of the D54's, I'm not sure that the D55 will benefit me any more with the extra 2MPs.

[hardwired 0]

I would not get a generic lens for a dome, what if it's too large, wont' fit inside the dome, if it's too short, will create light bleed. If you can get an ACTi lens for that camera, that would be ideal.

Short wouldn't be a problem, it's not the lens that seals against the dome, there's a rubber ring between the lens and IR LED's. Long would be a problem, unless he can run without the dome cover on. The Acti lenses probably would be the best choice, though.

[myiicu 0]

If the computer monitor is the only light source, what is the diagonal size and the back-light type so we can gauge an approximate lighting level. Also, are the bars color or grey scale/bw?

 

If you have a larger LED monitor than you may have sufficient backlighting to use a sensitive fixed color camera with macro lens.

 

Raytec 950nm IR lamps are visible to the human eye.

 

Bosch 950nm IR lamps are invisible to the human eye.

 

Although mice are nocturnal, their eyes are worse than the human eye. So 850nm might be sufficient for your experiment if you prefer mono images.

[tomcctv 190]

I would forget using the dome from ACTI

 

And go box type HD-SDI.

 

It will be much cheaper for you and as box camera gives you options to use wide range of lens

[JasonThick 0]

It's a 24in computer monitor with a white level luminescence of 80m/cd^2 (fairly dull for an LED monitor). The screen is showing white and black bars.

 

But the procedure is to show the bars for 30sec and then total darkness for 30sec, repeatedly. I'd like to to be able to monitor the mouse's eyes during the 30sec of darkness as well.

 

I think you are right, I have been given the impression that the human eye is able to detect higher wavelengths than the mouse eye. I believe mice have a detection threshold around 750nm. I'm assuming that 850nm is the peak wavelength of many of the IR LEDs, but I'm not sure what the high and low cut off wavelengths for these LEDs are.

 

So the raytec 950 may have a peak wavelength of 950nm but also emits some like at lower wavelengths perceivable to the human eye.

 

I'm not too worried about the IR source. If I need to I can mount a secondary IR source over the head of the mouse. This way it is out of the line of sight.

 

I'm more worried about getting an image that is magnified enough.

 

 

Tom, I don't know too much about HD-SDI. I was planning on getting 4 cameras (probably the D54 from ACTi) and a router, and then viewing the video on a LCD computer monitor. If I use HD-SDI do I need some sort of HD-SCI capable monitor?

[tomcctv 190]

Yes you would need a recorder but it is going to be better for you.

 

 

 

Box type camera on small tripod is going to allow you to move camera we're ever you want.

 

 

 

 

And as far as IR . For that distance ......... 1 IR bulb will do on a battery

[JasonThick 0]

I don't doubt that a box type HD-SDI would give me better results, but I would have to buy a DVR capable of recording from 4 cameras. They seem sort of expensive. I'm still trying to keep costs as low as possible.

 

I have to get approval for my purchases, and if the total price ends up being too much, my boss is going to nix the whole idea.

[tomcctv 190]

Box type of any camera would be better

 

If price is a fracture then standard analog will also do your needs

 

 

Are you looking to record and are you looking for realtime ?

 

 

 

Your getting told to use 2 -3mp camera ..........don't see the point in you over paying for a dome camera.

[JasonThick 0]

I'm looking to monitor my mice in realtime, recording isn't necessary.

 

I think I'd be ok with an analog camera, but I would still have to buy a monitor or box to take in the analog signals, which I'm worried will cost a lot.

 

I've found the ACTi D54 for 165 euros, and a m12 25mm IR corrected lens for 10euros. For four cameras that comes to about 700euros. I already have an LCD monitor, pc and router that I can use for this.

 

Do you think I could get something comparable with an analog or HD-SDI camera, also taking into account that these may require additional hardware other than a PC and LCD monitor?

[tomcctv 190]

You are going to waste your money buying the acti cameras.

 

And also a camera with IR is not going to work for you

[JasonThick 0]

I'm not set on the ACTi cameras, the D55 and D54s are just the best I have seen in that price range.

 

The IR lights seemed ok in the test shot that ACTi sent me. But if I need to I will buy a separate IR light. The space I'm illuminating is very small, about 60cm x 60cm x 100cm high.

 

Here is the photo ACTi sent me of the D55 from 17in away from a quater

 

 

It seems like if I could just zoom in further I'd be ok, that's why I'm thinking of getting the 25mm lens which should give me 7x magnification over the 3.6mm stock lens.

 

 

I am under a relatively strict budget. I'd would be open to getting an analog or HD-SDI camera, but I don't think I'm going to be able to find something as cheap when you add up all the necessary hardware.

 

Are you suggesting that I'm overpaying for the ACTi cameras, or are you saying that image quality that I will get from the ACTi cameras will be no good?

[tomcctv 190]

Hi, I'm looking for recommendations for a camera that is good for close-range viewing in the dark.

 

I'm working in a laboratory setting, monitoring a fixed point about 0.5-1.0 cm wide from about 30-40 cm away. I will be switching from total darkness to a dim lit (monitor lit) condition every 30 sec.

 

 

 

ACTi send you a test that is not close to what you need ??????

 

 

look at the coin ........ is that clear ????? your target is much smaller.

 

 

 

I would go for a box ip

 

will you be using your cameras for anything else

[JasonThick 0]

I thought the shot look good except that the quarter didn't take up much of the field of view, but I thought the 25mm lens would help fix that. But then again I don't have much experience with this sort of thing, so maybe this is crap compared to what other cameras can produce.

 

Can you recommend a good IP box camera that will work both in dark and low light settings, and that is in the 150-200 euro range?

 

ps no I only plan on using the cameras for this one purpose, viewing the eyes of my anesthetized mice.

[ak357 0]

I thought the shot look good except that the quarter didn't take up much of the field of view, but I thought the 25mm lens would help fix that. But then again I don't have much experience with this sort of thing, so maybe this is crap compared to what other cameras can produce.

 

Can you recommend a good IP box camera that will work both in dark and low light settings, and that is in the 150-200 euro range?

 

ps no I only plan on using the cameras for this one purpose, viewing the eyes of my anesthetized mice.

Where are you located ?