Synology or QNAP NVR versus PC and iSCSI

[dalepres 0]

I am expanding my home video surveillance system and want to make sure I have the best quality cameras I can afford so I am going with 1080p megapixel cameras where possible and especially where critical.

 

One concern is how to prevent thieves from taking the recording along with the other goods they might steal so I am considering a Synology or QNAP network storage unit so I can put the storage in an undisclosed location.

 

The options I have with either include using them as iSCSI drives for PC based recording (I have GeoVision in place now) or I can use a Synology or QNAP device directly as an NVR.

 

Has anyone used these types of network storage in either model: iSCSI storage or as NVRs? What was your experience with them? Any thoughts or opinions on which solution is best?

 

Dale

[dalepres 0]

Not sure if I should make a separate topic or just add this here. In the same system, I am wondering if it is possible to record the same IP camera on multiple NVRs? I know they can FTP or other things but that is bandwidth limited - at least for my Internet connection - so I'd l ike to possibly record to multiple recorders directly for backup. Can it be done?

 

Dale

[thewireguys 3]

I have used both Synology and QNAP for iSCSI storage. I prefer Synology to QNAP. iSCSI is very easy to setup and has worked reliably.

[MR2 0]

well, we need to talk about the structure of this...

 

you're best option is to have an offload to an offsite location, do you have much upload bandwidth?

 

if not then you might want to look at storing whatever in a separate shed or somewhat fireproof location if your that keen.

 

 

Generally however, when thieves see CCTV camera's they pick another house, even better as others have mentioned if you have movement triggered noises in the house (motion sensor triggered snoring/laughing? )

 

 

if this still comes back to the choice between a windows PC w/recording software or qnap (with no software or the built in stuff?) I'd go a PC every time, the latest HP Servers are VERY quiet and VERY cheap, I was origionally looking at moving from a HP i7 desktop up to a rack mount Synology, then looked at the price for the HP DL380 series as well as power use and decided the Synology cannot compete.

[thewireguys 3]

I would not use either as your NVR. I would use them to add storage to a systen you currently have.

[dalepres 0]

I was burglarized two days before Thanksgiving. I had two cameras on the front door mounted at the same spot. THe thieves took a ladder from outside by my shed and climbed up from behind the cameras, and cut the exposed cables to the cameras. I know the exact moment when the video stopped; that's about it.

 

A single camera on the inside would have caught them but I didn't have that either. Well, the cameras were there but they were disconnected. I didn't have cameras on cameras. I knew the need of it but just hadn't completed the system. I also had the security alarm equipment I needed but hadn't installed it either.

 

My wife was very set against having either system in place so I hadn't finished either, hoping the visible cameras on the front door would deter a thief. Now I am completing both, regardless. I was lucky, by the way. The kids who broke in were stupid and were trading my stuff at the local high school so they got caught. I'll probably get half of what they took back.

 

I'm leaning to using the network storage as iSCSI so I can trick the PC based NVR software and the GeoVision analog card I have now into thinking the network storage is a local drive but can actually be hidden away in another room.

 

I also just put a trench in to to my 12x30 shed so I can run power, video, data, and security in and out; I could put the NAS out there but it's not temperature controlled. I'll be running the lines for all of that next

 

I live in a rural area and have satellite Internet service so upload speed is pretty poor. I am going to upgrade to the new Exede satellite service which has higher upload speed so that video and images can be sent to my phone and FTP on alarm but it is not good for a lot of storage. The biggest downside of my satellite service, and the Exede service, is that if you go over your data allowance they virtually shut your service off rather than just charge you for the extra. They say that they take you to "dial-up" speeds but I guess they mean the speed from when 1200 baud modems were awesomely fast.

 

So it seems that the best option for me is going to be remote storage in the house, preferably multiple storage devices in multiple locations with cameras strategically divided between the storage devices so no matter what path into and around the house a thief takes they will end up on multiple storage devices. Anything can be defeated but I am just hoping to make it so hard to defeat that they decide to leave empty-handed next time.

 

Of course a simple ski mask defeats the entire video system.

 

Of course if I am missing something, completely wrong about the whole thing, or somewhere in between, or if you just have other ideas or comments, please say so. I really do want to hear it.

[MR2 0]

you are missing a few things...

 

depending on the construction of your shed some insulation and painting it white would do wonders to it's internal temperature, you could also build some sort of trapdoor so thief's would consider the shed empty of Electronic devices.. the device mounted under the floor would also sub

 

the second part is the lack of an SMS notification system, you really need the system to send you an urgent alarm if certain camera's detect motion or drop off or whatever..

 

of course for a good system you need to have no blind spots, taking it further have good shots of choke points etc my general plan is to have all my camera's concealed and just have some of the sign's saying camera's used onsite

[MaxIcon 0]

Not sure if I should make a separate topic or just add this here. In the same system, I am wondering if it is possible to record the same IP camera on multiple NVRs? I know they can FTP or other things but that is bandwidth limited - at least for my Internet connection - so I'd l ike to possibly record to multiple recorders directly for backup. Can it be done?

 

I record to 2 or 3 NVRs at once, no problem.

 

System 1 - Blue Iris on an i5-3570 box, recording motion detect on 9 cameras. This is the primary system, and has about 2 months of recording.

 

System 2 - Aver NV6480 on an i3-540 box, recording 24x7 on the same 9 cameras. It only has space for about a week, but this is the backup if something happened and I missed something important due to motion detect.

 

System 3 - Blue Iris on an i3-540 box, used as a test bed; it'll record 6 or so of the cams at once. This is where I test new versions of BI before installing them on the main system, as well as doing any tests that would interfere with full-time recording.

 

It would be easy to hide one of these somewhere - all you need is a network cable and power. Typically, you wouldn't need a full blown system for this, since a few days' recording would be enough backup to catch video from someone who took the main system.

 

This won't help someone cutting the cam cables, but it will give backup if someone steals the obvious NVR.

 

On your camera positions, I like to set them up one of these ways:

 

- No one can approach the camera without being recorded, like if it's mounted on a wall with no rear access. My front cams are right next to each other with slightly overlapping coverage, and no one can get to either one without being seen by one or both.

 

- One camera watching the other, so that anyone messing with one camera is seen by the other. This can be a problem if the cams are very far apart, as you may not have enough pixels per foot to ID an unknown perp, and can require a lot of cams, depending on your layout.

 

Still, this is easily bypassed with a mask, but we all have to draw a line on redundancy and coverage somewhere.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Guest

[MR2 0]

 

- One camera watching the other, so that anyone messing with one camera is seen by the other. This can be a problem if the cams are very far apart, as you may not have enough pixels per foot to ID an unknown perp, and can require a lot of cams, depending on your layout.

 

Still, this is easily bypassed with a mask, but we all have to draw a line on redundancy and coverage somewhere.

 

the Camera's seeing each other is a good one, where we have camera's back to back we actually have the second cam in the first unit's upper corner of the frame.. my idea for a house though is the have the camera hidden so only the lens is showing, making it require quite a bit more effort to disconnect them..

 

in the case of the guy above you could also have hidden cam's in the shed covering the house

[dalepres 0]

you are missing a few things...

 

depending on the construction of your shed some insulation and painting it white would do wonders to it's internal temperature, you could also build some sort of trapdoor so thief's would consider the shed empty of Electronic devices.. the device mounted under the floor would also sub

 

the second part is the lack of an SMS notification system, you really need the system to send you an urgent alarm if certain camera's detect motion or drop off or whatever..

 

of course for a good system you need to have no blind spots, taking it further have good shots of choke points etc my general plan is to have all my camera's concealed and just have some of the sign's saying camera's used onsite

 

I am putting in a closed loop wire into each camera cabling that will tie back to the alarm system. If the camera cables get cut the alarm system will trigger immediate burglary. Same thing on all the alarm sirens, speakers, and strobes. If any wires are cut, it triggers the alarm.

 

I will have SMS or mobile alerting; it's built into all the devices I have. I haven't spoken to the alarm company about monitoring video alerts yet but my hope is that it is affordable so they can do all the monitoring. If I am in a meeting at work, I can't always stop and look at my phone. Or if I am flying or otherwise don't have access.

 

For all the last three responses, I don't want hidden cameras. I want them as a deterrent. I suppose there is some advantage in hidden - you might fool a thief into not feeling the need to wear a mask so you can catch him after the fact - and I could depend on the visible alarm sirens etc for deterrence.

[MR2 0]

you are missing a few things...

 

depending on the construction of your shed some insulation and painting it white would do wonders to it's internal temperature, you could also build some sort of trapdoor so thief's would consider the shed empty of Electronic devices.. the device mounted under the floor would also sub

 

the second part is the lack of an SMS notification system, you really need the system to send you an urgent alarm if certain camera's detect motion or drop off or whatever..

 

of course for a good system you need to have no blind spots, taking it further have good shots of choke points etc my general plan is to have all my camera's concealed and just have some of the sign's saying camera's used onsite

 

I am putting in a closed loop wire into each camera cabling that will tie back to the alarm system. If the camera cables get cut the alarm system will trigger immediate burglary. Same thing on all the alarm sirens, speakers, and strobes. If any wires are cut, it triggers the alarm.

 

I will have SMS or mobile alerting; it's built into all the devices I have. I haven't spoken to the alarm company about monitoring video alerts yet but my hope is that it is affordable so they can do all the monitoring. If I am in a meeting at work, I can't always stop and look at my phone. Or if I am flying or otherwise don't have access.

 

For all the last three responses, I don't want hidden cameras. I want them as a deterrent. I suppose there is some advantage in hidden - you might fool a thief into not feeling the need to wear a mask so you can catch him after the fact - and I could depend on the visible alarm sirens etc for deterrence.

 

 

Sounds interesting, you could do the same thing with Milestone "Send SMS on camera failure" and that way you don't need the closed loop

[dalepres 0]

SMS is pretty unreliable, or at least it can be. And I might not be in a position to look at my phone for an SMS. I might be driving, in a meeting, or a hundred other scenarios. The alarm company is always there.

 

Maybe I am just being paranoid but I like the redundancy.

[MR2 0]

sure

 

Milestone can also automatically trigger external devices, you're an alarm sort of guy though so why not go with what you know well I say!

[dalepres 0]

I hope it's ok to dredge up my old thread here but this is follow on to this. I've been using Blue Iris and found it unsatisfactory. On my dual quad-core Xeon, 16 GB RAM, Windows 7 home server I am at 30 per cent CPU utilization with only 2 cameras. That's better than the 100 percent I experienced the first time I ran it on this box last night and the 100 percent utilization I had on a dual-core Core 2 Duo box. At this point, Blue Iris is at least working.

 

But I am not really happy with it. I looked into Milestone but don't see a way to buy it online. Where can I get it?

 

I'm still considering going back the Synology idea. My Synology device is working great as an iSCSI drive and with all my video programs and encoders but I'm considering upgrading to a Synology 214+ and putting my 8 HD IP cams on it.

 

I'm a PC kind of guy and I want a PC solution but I need an affordable but professional quality application with at least some level of professional support available. For me, and your mileage may vary depending on your own needs, Blue Iris isn't meeting my requirements.

 

So, I guess my second question (where to get Milestone was #1) is has anyone used a DS214+ for recording 200+ FPS at 1080p? It's rated at 480 FPS so, if it can really deliver, my system should be a piece of cake.

[dalepres 0]

I finally found the where-to-buy link on Milestone's site. I'm interested but not enough to go through one of the local dealers to install it in my home; I'm more the self-service type. The free version won't work for me. 5 days max storage means never taking a week long trip.

[MaxIcon 0]

What's your frame rate? That's one of the bigger loads on BI, as well as the resolution. If it's already something reasonable like 10-15 fps, then you'd likely need an updated PC to run more cams. What did you do to get the CPU down to 30%?

 

For Xprotect, best bet is to install the free version and see how that works for you. If it does the job, you can upgrade to the paid version, which runs $50/cam, and can be cheaper than buying a new PC, depending on how many cams you're running.

 

This will let you compare BI and Xprotect on the same system, as well. They're pretty different in their user interfaces.