Questions regarding front porch camera system

[camera-newbie 0]

Hi all.. long time no check with you all.. So, my mother lives alone in Oregon and she's got a 25' long front walk-way to get to her front door -- looks like a long hall with an open ceiling -- kinda weird but whatever. Anyway, she's 80 and there's been some issues in the recent past with odd people coming to the door and she's not able to determine who they are or what they want without opening the door..

 

I'd like to get her setup with a camera system that would allow her to remotely view who has been at her front door at the current time and optionally in the past if we desire to set things up that way. We also want 2-way audio so it would effectively work like an intercom. She's just received a new iPad Air and we were thinking that might be the best device to use for remote intercomming.

 

To that end I've been poking around here and elsewhere and checked out a few devices people suggested here and elsewhere but none have stellar reviews or have turn-key issues of some sort or another.

 

To that end, I kinda like the looks and simplicity of the Mobotix S15 camera system which supports 2-way audio as well as the expected video. I realize this system is probably overkill but I want something super simple and I gather there's an ipad app that can directly communicate with the mobotix cameras and also supports 2-way audio -- I don't recall the product off the top of my head -- I know it starts with a "q" -- IIRC.

 

Are there any other decent -- NON wireless systems that might fit the bill? There was one croud-funded product that was mentioned here a few times but I read some off-line reviews and there were issues with it's WIFI capabilities as well as issues getting ahold of their customer support people -- two things that flagged that product as not ready for prime time.

 

Ideally I'd like a wired system that can be directly plugged into a switch/router and they my mother can use her WIFI ipad to communicate with it throughout the house.

 

Am I looking for a product that doesn't exist? I don't think I am -- I'm hoping I don't need a system that requires a dedicated NVR but can go that route if needed...

 

Please point me in the right direction!!!

 

Thanks!

[Peter_ 2]

...I gather there's an ipad app that can directly communicate with the mobotix cameras and also supports 2-way audio -- I don't recall the product off the top of my head -- I know it starts with a "q" -- IIRC.

 

QcamPro does two way audio from the iPad, works great too, pretty intuitive as well.

[camera-newbie 0]

Thanks peter.. Is it safe to assume you could have a Mobotix camera setup along with this app and skip any sort of NVR? Does the app have notifications saying that someone activated the camera or anything like that..? Obviously there will still be a door bell being used and perhaps it's just a matter of firing up that app and interacting.. Is that about right?

 

Do you have any experience with the S15 cameras? I want something that is fairly unobtrusive and not a giant in-your-face sort of setup when you visit the front door like some cameras can be.. It's not clear to me whether one of their Q25's mounted on a wall near the door would work ok or not.. or possibly ceiling mount of the same..

 

Ideally I like their door station but it seems like WAAAY overkill for this setup

[camera-newbie 0]

Here's a pic of the front porch walkway...

 

Sorry for the side-ways image.. had to use my phone for that..

[camera-newbie 0]

My only concern with the Mobotix cameras is that they don't talk about how well they do in low-light -- other than having a lux rating.. Nothing about the iris or whether they'd work with supplemental IR, etc.. I gather I can buy one of their dual cameras models -- one for day and one for night but would hope that something easier could be achieved.

[dirkdaring 0]

The Logitech Alert might be able to do these things.

[camera-newbie 0]

Id be concerned about how well that would stand up out here.. The salt air is nasty bad and beats up everything..

[camera-newbie 0]

No more comments on Mobotix? I was hoping I could get a bit more feedback.. hmm.. Of course other systems are probably ok -- as long as they have two way audio

[buellwinkle 0]

Mobotix used to be good but their new cameras are not that great, especially with improvements in the past year on other brands. Besides the poor image quality, I would say they are also very complex to setup, maybe the hardest of all brands of cameras. They have improved low light performance but at the expense of noise, so I would put them as average in low light performance, not great, not bad. Also, consider you need two holes, one for day and one for night sensors and a place to mount the S15 box. Also, they flush mount making them harder to aim unless you get their swivel type mounts but that makes them stick out a bit.

 

The other problem is you have a light between the door and the subject which would create a silhouette on a camera without an IR illuminator to compensate for that. If the light was at the door, it would be OK and light up the subject.

 

If you want an easy to use dome that can record and playback from an SD card or NAS, consider the Hikvision ds-2cd2732f-is, it's what I use at my front door. It stays in color at night with the porch light and switches to B&W only in complete darkness and records quite well to SD card. It can also record to NAS, but that works for some, not others. Also, the price is cheap for $259 shipped. Compared say a $1,500 Mobotix S15, to me the Hikvision has better image quality both day and night.

 

Another camera I would recommend is the Axis P3364-LVE. While it's only 1MP, the Lightfinder feature does excellent with minimal light and it has an IR Illuminator built in. This is heads above Mobotix MxLEO and with the illuminator, it will work in zero light. It can write to SD or NAS using the free Axis Camera Companion app that runs in the camera. Then you use Windows software to view the cameras and recordings. I costs about a grand, give or take but has features Mobotix does not have like remote focus and varifocal lens. Not sure why you would need more than 1MP because it's such a tight area.

[camera-newbie 0]

Thanks for the great reply!! Can either of those alternate cameras be used without the sd card and with only an iPhone or iPad app exclusively? Also, with any of these that support 2-way audio, what is needed beyond the camera on the porch? Do I need to provide the speaker and microphone in a separate enclosure? I've never used 2-way audio before.. Thanks in advance!!

 

Thanks again!!

[buellwinkle 0]

Yes, no, maybe.

 

The two alternatives I recommended + Mobotix have 2-way audio. The Axis has a mic built in, but no speaker but has speaker output so you can plug in a separate speaker. The Hikvision has mic in, audio in and audio out, so you would have to find a mic/speaker to work in your situation. Mobotix S15 would is also audio in/out, does not have a mic on the cameras.

 

You don't have to have an SD card on any of them, you don't have to record at all and they can all be accessed via smartphone apps, but never tried any of them with 2-way audio.

 

What you can do is have the doorbell tied to the alarm input on any of the cameras mentioned above and figure out someway to alert your phone that someone rang the doorbell, maybe have it send you a video text to your phone with the picture it took at the time the doorbell rang. Cool science experiment.

 

There is a company here in So Cal that makes a box that holds an Axis M10 series with built-in mic and speaker and PIR motion detection built in and has a brass plate for the front that comes in different finishes. The problem for you is this door is on a slant relative to the hallway, so tricky to mount that to be effective.

[camera-newbie 0]

Cool and thx!! Can I get the info for the company in so-cal? I guess a fully turnkey system for this is a pipe dream and experimenting is key..

[tcarson 0]

My suggestion camera wise would be an Axis Camera which supports their Corridor Format which allows easy rotation of the camera image perfect for long hallways as it looks like you have. This eliminates the "wasted space" that you would otherwise have with a normal camera since a majority of the image would be of the hallway walls. Here is a link to the Axis Cameras which feature the Corridor Format: http://www.axis.com/techsup/faq/index.php/index_axis.php?action=artikel&id=115405

 

If you are not familiar with the model numbers, -VE means it is outdoor ready and vandal resistant, -V vandal resistant only, and -LVE means it is outdoor ready, vandal resistant and features an IR illuminator.

 

Hope this helps!

[Boogieman 1]

My suggestion camera wise would be an Axis Camera which supports their Corridor Format which allows easy rotation of the camera image perfect for long hallways as it looks like you have. This eliminates the "wasted space" that you would otherwise have with a normal camera since a majority of the image would be of the hallway walls. Here is a link to the Axis Cameras which feature the Corridor Format: http://www.axis.com/techsup/faq/index.php/index_axis.php?action=artikel&id=115405

 

If you are not familiar with the model numbers, -VE means it is outdoor ready and vandal resistant, -V vandal resistant only, and -LVE means it is outdoor ready, vandal resistant and features an IR illuminator.

 

Hope this helps!

great point about "corridor" format. The hikvision DS-2CD2432F-I (W) can also do this.

I have one on order....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH2tLzwslCc

[buellwinkle 0]

Yes, the Hikvision, even the lower cost ones can do "corridor mode". It's the rotate option in the Image menu. The reason I've never played with it is because I didn't think the software would handle it well, meaning if I have say 4 cameras displayed on a screen, an one is a different orientation, say portrait vs. landscape, it may look odd. Ideally it would be smart enough and present a layout that has this mixed well. Let us know how it works out in that regard.

 

So you have a solution for now then?

 

The doorbell housing is here - http://eholovision.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=210&Itemid=244

 

I talked them into using Axis M10 cameras. Before that it worked with some obscure Panasonic model that was pricey compared to the M10 series and not as good.

[camera-newbie 0]

Thanks all.. I love the enclosures -- too bad the Axis cameras don't have built-in IR.. I think the model that would be needed would be the Axis M1034-W which has the 2-way audio -- the others do not.

 

However, in reading up more on their built-in intercom feature it doesn't work as I was expecting .. sounds like I'd need to plug it into a more complicated telephone system that what my mother currently owns (regular old phones -- no PBX or similar). If we go with the DS-2CD2432F-I (W) (hikvision) for instance I'm assuming that is not outdoor safe -- it's meant for indoor use only.

 

For any of these -- are dome or bullets my prime goal I guess??

 

As for resolution, is 1mp good enough or should I be looking for 2 or 3MP cameras or maybe 1MP is good enough?

 

in poking around on the Hikvision site it does not appear that any outdoor cameras support two-way audio -- only select indoor cameras (box + domes)..

 

In looking at the Axis cameras it appears there are only two models that support the following features I'm looking for:

 

• two-way audio
  
• outdoor ready
  
• PoE
  
• Day Night
  
• Built-in IR

 

Specifically the only matches are the : Q1765-LE and P3364-LVE.. The Q1765-LE has the corridor feature ..

 

I guess I'd still need to figure out the rest of the system to make it work with an iPad and the doorbell system to notify -- possibly.. I think it's probably OK conops that if the doorbell rings she can get the iPad out and fire up the video app to chat with whomever is out there.. I don't think it would be an issue to not have the doorbell tied to some sort of notification logic..

 

Then the only thing left to find is a combo microphone /speaker and wire it up to the cameras wiring..

[camera-newbie 0]

ok.. I double-checked the hikvision cameras and at least one of their cameras satisfies my needs I think -- the DS-2CD2732F-I(S) which has the 1 channel audio and io ports.. Is 1 channel good enough for 2-way audio?

 

So, has anyone used 2-way audio with any Hikvision cameras? The manual implies there's a microphone but I don't think there is.. correct? Just want to be sure..

[jw9424 0]

In case you're interested, here is a very good review of the camera you're looking at. May answer some of your questions.

 

http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=1968#more-1968

[camera-newbie 0]

In case you're interested, here is a very good review of the camera you're looking at. May answer some of your questions.

 

http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=1968#more-1968

 

Thanks.. That was a really useful review!! I guess the only thing I'd need is the speaker/mic in an outdoor enclosure -- i did a little poking around and I think something like this might work as it's just a set of 4-wires to connect the mic & speaker to the camera :

 

http://www.louroe.com/products.php?id=90

 

I think surface mount is the preferred mount for this installation so I don't have to cut a huge hole in the siding of the house.. I could get one with a call-button but I believe that's just adding too much complexity to the equation as they could instead just use the existing doorbell and my mother could fire up an iPad app and talk to the person outside..

 

Does that seem like a reasonable conops??

[Boogieman 1]

I would still go with the hikvision cube. Its a much cleaner install, cheaper, and it has a PIR motion sensor, the audio is all built in. That area in your photos is sufficiently protected from the elements so the fact the it is an indoor cam should not be an issue. The specs show an opterating temperature range of -22 to 140f...

[camera-newbie 0]

I would still go with the hikvision cube. Its a much cleaner install, cheaper, and it has a PIR motion sensor, the audio is all built in. That area in your photos is sufficiently protected from the elements so the fact the it is an indoor cam should not be an issue. The specs show an opterating temperature range of -22 to 140f...

 

Thanks.. One question tho.. If you've got one of these does it in fact have a standard ethernet port on it for a wired connection instead of WIFI.. The manual seems to indicate you need to use WIFI but I'd hope that's not the case..

 

Also, can this be surface mounted on a wall without too much trouble? If so, do the cables run thru a hole in the backing plate or out the side like some domes do..?

 

You are correct that under that roof there's no chance for the camera to get wet -- just cold and humid

 

Also, how flexible is the mount for aiming the camera to where it needs to be positioned?

[elefantrider 0]

I would just get a Q25 day or night depending on how much light you have. The D15 is another option if you want both day and night but it screams security camera. If you want to save some money, you can pick up a Q24 used on Ebay for around $400.

 

The S15 lens requires that you drill a monster 1-3/4" in order to mount - and it only has a mic. You would need to add an external speaker to a S15.

 

I am not familiar with the other brands but Mobotix software is really powerful once you get to know it. And if you choose to upgrade later, Mobotix has good resale value. Actually, it is one of the only brands whose value doesn't drop 80% as soon as you mount it.

[camera-newbie 0]

I would just get a Q25 day or night depending on how much light you have. The D15 is another option if you want both day and night but it screams security camera. If you want to save some money, you can pick up a Q24 used on Ebay for around $400.

 

The S15 lens requires that you drill a monster 1-3/4" in order to mount - and it only has a mic. You would need to add an external speaker to a S15.

 

I am not familiar with the other brands but Mobotix software is really powerful once you get to know it. And if you choose to upgrade later, Mobotix has good resale value. Actually, it is one of the only brands whose value doesn't drop 80% as soon as you mount it.

 

Thanks for the info -- I think I've decided to go with Hikvision cameras and ditch the entire audio part..