Looking for 360deg 5MP IP-Camera w/ onboard image correction

[BrownChiLD 0]

Hi guys

 

I really need your advise on this one.

 

I just recently gotten into hemispherical cameras and i think they are great.. but i really hate how most options are NVR dependent (proprietary issues) ..

 

I have an existing deployment and i just want to attach a 360deg cam w/o having to purchase a new NVR and such.

 

I did my research as well but found difficulty in confirming w/c ones have onboard correction and w/c ones require you proprietary NVR (box or software)

 

So far the ONLY one that I have confirmed (based on a video demo/promo) that has this functionality are the Mobotix cams..

infact they CLAIM they are the only ones w/ such feature - where it's fully de-centralized system having the camera itself do image correction and framing.. your software will simply see the cropped out sections of the 360 deg video as different feeds (perhaps being served independently by port ?)

 

But reading this thread discouraged me w/ mobotix: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=37655&hilit=360

 

 

So i searched so far my results are

 

Vivotek = definitely not onboard (as per manual)

Etrovision = dunno can't confirm

Axis = dunno can't confirm

GeoVision = dunno can't confirm

 

Now I'm really hoping some of you guys here have more experience w/ actual models and could give me some recommendations..

 

Regards

TJ

[VST_Man 1]

Acti KCM-3911 & KCM7911 have correction on cam.

Check into Sentry 360 cams...........bandwidth hogs but?

 

I have the new E96 Acti 360 and the price was really low as compared to other 360 cams. But, it states it's a 10mp cam and I question that since the pic is not anything close to WOW and the overall pic in terms of color saturation is bland and unresponsive in the software. And the correction is dependant on the Acti NVR software. I'd say it would be a good cam if properly installed in GREAT lighting and smaller area. It's on the cheap side of the 360's when it comes to pic quality.

 

The 39&7911's are pretty good. They are what they spec out to be and the price was high but they work and the pic is better than the 10mp E97.

 

I tested a Vivotek 360 last year and the pic was ok and I returned it because I needed a good outdoor 360. Went with the Acti's.

 

Arecont's are 4 lense solutions and not cheap. Each lense is a 5mp lense so the 20mp 360 is actually a 5mp lense every 90 degree's.

 

Sentry 360? I'm trying to get a Demo from them now. Sent a email to the Big Guy and have not hear back. Their loss if they ignor me. But, from what I've read, the 360 cams are awesome but extremely heavy on bandwidth. ie. the 10mp requires 70mb?

 

your solution is going to be expensive.

 

camera manufactures have not learned anything when it comes to proprietary issues. But they will come around after the market is flooded with other brands that do onboard. Analytics are the next GREAT IP cam.

[cctv-dave 0]

AMG Panogenics

Dewarped on board, outputs like a typical PTZ, but 4(??) independant channels.

 

Dedicated Micros do too, but only in a 2MP; although it's PTZ control is very good if you can stomach the low res (VGA dewarps).

The AMG is based on a reference design from the chip fab house DM used to own.

 

 

There is supposed to be some sort of Intellectual Property issue on in-cam dewarping IIRC.

Which is why it's thin on the ground - so I was told.

[Razer_SE 0]

I use the ACTi cameras with the onboard dewarping and it works fine for me anyway. I have several in panoramic mode on a wall usually, and they work very well for my usual needs.

 

I also have a vivotek or two and I like the images I get from them, but they record in the bubble view only. I can get the exact image I want in the cameras web view, but it does not output that quad view I want to my NVR software sadly. I've never tried to see if they work fine in panoramic mode as I have them all ceiling mounted.

[BrownChiLD 0]

wow you guys are gold. thank you so much for not only mentioning products but also giving personal reviews on them.. I really appreciate it.

Now gona look at these cams and see where I go with.

 

 

about the patent on on-board de warping.. umm i hate it when companies do this. it's such a great technology and it sucks to see it get hold up .. but i don't think this is patended? coz if it was mobotix would have had the patents as they I believe was the first to (and still) boast about such feature

 

TJ

[VST_Man 1]

it's called Capitalism and it works. Anybody can build anything they want but if nobody buys it they fail. Money and demand drive the cart. The odd part is how "assuming" the Government and large Companies are. If it says "BIGbrandedNAME" they assume it is the best available and then GOLD PLATE the contract to that brand and blow millions of dollars. The equipment they usually buy is good BUT the reality is that today you can buy unbranded for 50% or less and get the same good. Great example is the Billions spent on our Northern Border Video & Security Program. I could have done it for 100 million and still made 50 million. But the Senator with a Friend used our money to build a 1 billion dollar system that is buggy and will require millions more to fix and maintain. Unbelievable eh? And we could talk about the Oboma solar projects that cost us as much and more. Multiple sewers with our money going down the drain.

 

Speaking of Obama Care.....I heard Hospitals are using buses to drive around town picking up "sick people" and dropping them off at the ER room. Of course they have not yet signed up so the Staff signs them up when they walk in. pay the 1st monthly payment, admit the patient, order all sorts of tests, provide them with room and board, 3 meals a day, free satellite, ect. and send the bill to Obummer Care Central....................pay up America!

 

I think I'm going to buy a couple limo's and start selling sick people to the Hospitals Stupid Sheeple

[SunnyKim 2]

Agree more than 100%

[MR2 0]

Hi guys

 

I really need your advise on this one.

 

I just recently gotten into hemispherical cameras and i think they are great.. but i really hate how most options are NVR dependent (proprietary issues) ..

 

I have an existing deployment and i just want to attach a 360deg cam w/o having to purchase a new NVR and such.

 

I did my research as well but found difficulty in confirming w/c ones have onboard correction and w/c ones require you proprietary NVR (box or software)

 

So far the ONLY one that I have confirmed (based on a video demo/promo) that has this functionality are the Mobotix cams..

infact they CLAIM they are the only ones w/ such feature - where it's fully de-centralized system having the camera itself do image correction and framing.. your software will simply see the cropped out sections of the 360 deg video as different feeds (perhaps being served independently by port ?)

 

But reading this thread discouraged me w/ mobotix: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=37655&hilit=360

 

 

So i searched so far my results are

 

Vivotek = definitely not onboard (as per manual)

Etrovision = dunno can't confirm

Axis = dunno can't confirm

GeoVision = dunno can't confirm

 

Now I'm really hoping some of you guys here have more experience w/ actual models and could give me some recommendations..

 

Regards

TJ

 

I'm surprised you guys are happy with the quality, the 360's I've played with are horrid by way of quality and dealing with complex light

[BrownChiLD 0]

I'm surprised you guys are happy with the quality, the 360's I've played with are horrid by way of quality and dealing with complex light

 

What 360's have you played with? I guess, since it's covering 360, the quality will be biased on some angles, specially w/ varying light conditions.. like if on 1 side there is strong light and on the other side it's shady.. i dont think the 360 cam would do dynamic adjustment per frame lol ... it's going to try set itself to best contrast,d-range, etc settings.. but perhaps if under controlled and good lighting conditions..

 

I've yet to deploy my first 360 though..

[MR2 0]

I'm surprised you guys are happy with the quality, the 360's I've played with are horrid by way of quality and dealing with complex light

 

What 360's have you played with? I guess, since it's covering 360, the quality will be biased on some angles, specially w/ varying light conditions.. like if on 1 side there is strong light and on the other side it's shady.. i dont think the 360 cam would do dynamic adjustment per frame lol ... it's going to try set itself to best contrast,d-range, etc settings.. but perhaps if under controlled and good lighting conditions..

 

I've yet to deploy my first 360 though..

 

well, in a factory where we have open doors (bright on one side) and darker (but still illuminated) through the rest of the factory we threw an Axis m3007 which does the built in de-warping, unfortunately when you split a 360 into 4 x normal 90 degree views (what all our other camera's are doing) you end up with something like 4 x 800x600 resolution views, the ones where the open doors stream light in end up so bright you can barely see anything coming in the door way or around the doorway, the darker area's you can see reasonably well.

 

after playing with it we'll never buy a 360 again.

 

The Good:

Wide View angle

single Ethernet cable to a wide area

Single Milestone licence

Reasonable for small rooms (say 5m/5m ish) where you want to see what people are doing, but for the price you'd just throw a dome in each corner and get better coverage anyway so why bother?..

 

The bad:

Frame rate sucks, in real situations we're getting maybe 5 frames per second MAXIMUM

the quality of each view is terrible, we're used to a 3mp 90 degree view and being able to digital zoom in to get a reasonable look at detail, this one is horrid zoomed in.

Camera can only optimise for a single amount of light, so if part of what your covering is brighter, then that area will always be washed out/white out

with individual camera's over an area you get different angles of the same event, 360 does not allow that,

360 does not also let you see person getting closer to the camera, say if you have 4 camera's in a room and someone does something then walks to the exit, normally you have a camera over the door so as they leave you get a nice clear face shot.

[buellwinkle 0]

I concur that you can't divide a 360 degree image by 4 and expect the same for resolution as it has to crop the image to make it square. For example, taking a 4MP camera and dividing it into 4 90 degree streams does not yield 4 1MP images.

 

We were happy with the same situation with the Mobotix Q22 where there were two glass doors to the outside and darker inside. You can't really see out the doors because they were so bright, but you could see the person once they step inside. Actually helped us catch who was entering the facilities that was not authorized. The new Q25 should be better in low light, but actually be worse with the bright lit areas, almost too sensitive. Either way, it does not do in-camera correction.

 

Watching the ACTi's perform at a recent tradeshow in commercial type light, the image quality was pretty good and I believe you can break it up into 6 streams and likely lose less pixels during the conversion, so it may be possible that it's 4MP sensor gives you the same pixels after correction than the Axis 5MP. Also the ACTi is day/night, the Axis is day only.

[MR2 0]

Watching the ACTi's perform at a recent tradeshow in commercial type light, the image quality was pretty good and I believe you can break it up into 6 streams and likely lose less pixels during the conversion, so it may be possible that it's 4MP sensor gives you the same pixels after correction than the Axis 5MP. Also the ACTi is day/night, the Axis is day only.

 

Yeah, I think if you REALLY want great quality with a 360 you buy an Arecont (which is a cheating 360) or wait till they get something like a 10mp with good frame rate and a WDR that works properly.

[MaxIcon 0]

One of the inherent problems with ultra-wide angle lenses, including hemi models, is that your pixels-per-foot resolution may be good at the center of the view, but drops off rapidly as you move towards the edges. De-warping software can't do anything about this.

 

Any lens that has fisheye distortion will show this. It can be measured easily with an object of known size placed at different locations, then measuring how many pixels it covers with an image editor.

[MR2 0]

Any lens that has fisheye distortion will show this. It can be measured easily with an object of known size placed at different locations, then measuring how many pixels it covers with an image editor.

 

you can use the grandeye's (think that was the brand) that did a different lens design and had a better pixel spread, but it's $900 of camera, why bother?

 

http://www.immervision.com/en/security/security_panomorph_lenses.php

 

keep it simple win's everytime

[MaxIcon 0]

Theia also makes correcting lenses, from $200-400. I don't know of anyone who makes them for M12 cameras, though. Most of them are for CS mount cams.

 

The plus of correcting lenses is that they don't depend on software, so the stream is usable by any app that talks to the camera.

[Razer_SE 0]

I have used a many of the 3911 ACTi cameras with good results, in hallways, in office settings, in entry vestibules in the same office, and in one area in a area with three glass walls around it so the lighting varies greatly in all these areas and they have worked well. My biggest complaint is the heat these generate, man they get HOT on the back side. I think you could cook an egg on the back after it's been on for an hour or so. I've had many installed for more than a year now with no issues with failure though so they must be made for it.

 

I also have an Axis m3007 and 5-6 of the Vivotek FE8172 cameras. The Axis is my least favorite and I'll not get any more of those, but where it is installed it is working just fine. It is indoor, but has windows behind it and the entire view to the left is garage doors that open and close as needed. No issues with that lighting, I can see the people and vehicles outside the doors in the bright light when the doors open and indoors is only lit by a couple lights. In comparison for picture quality and general end user friendliness the Axis comes in dead last from what I've used anyway.

 

The Vivoteks I've only used in hallway intersections and as it has no built in ability to output the four separate views I just record and view in the default bubble view and it works fine. For example one hemispheric each in of two intersections in a long hallway replaced 8 analog cameras in the same hallway. Really the cost is even a wash, as the two IP cameras are close to equal the cost of 8 analogs. But, you only have to record two cameras, review footage from two cameras, and the quality is much, much better than the analogs that were removed. Plus, one cable to a switch nearby for POE, then one cable to each camera VS 8 siamese runs from 400 to 500 feet each. That alone is priceless lol. Lighting has so far been no issue in these locations but motion detection is odd on these.

 

I have to set the motion on the Vivotek to be way, way less sensitive than other cameras I've used to get the same motion results. Most cameras I set to say 90% sensitivity and 5% motion for example. I've had to set these as high as 80% sensitivity and 80-90% motion in a large window to get what I would consider normal motion detection and not constant detection. Odd, but the images look good, no noise that would appear to be anywhere near that high to require settings like that. I'm guessing it's a firmware bug, but it is something to note. I sure wish they would send the quad view I can setup in the web view of the camera to my NVR, but no. Oh well.