Where to get quality 960-1200 TVL analog bullet/lipstick cam

[Brent1971 0]

Hey all,

 

I just purchased a 1200TVL capable full D1 analog 8 channel DVR. Right now my location has a few small "lipstick" type cameras of 350-600 TVL (supposedly). I'd like to max out this new DVR but have NO IDAE where to source small hi-res analog cams that actually meet their specs.

 

In the past, it's been hit or miss on camera quality and price is no guarantee either.

 

Maybe I should have looked at HD Digital, but D1 seems like it should be good enough, IF I can get cameras that really reach the picture quality level.

 

Any sources and advice appreciated...

[the toss 0]

If this is an analogue system ( and it sounds like it is ) then you have been conned with the DVR & your wasting your time time trying to find 1200 tvl cameras. If you do happen to find some then it will be another con like the one you've fallen for with the DVR. Analogue systems by design are limited to 580 tvl for NTSC and 640 tvl for PAL. Anything claimed above this is simply misrepresentation.

[Brent1971 0]

Then what is 960H?

 

 

960TVL

http://www.idealo.co.uk/cat/12875F961240-1018976/cctv-cameras.html

[N99118 0]

Hey, I found this:

 

http://laviewusa.com/lv-kdv2804w1/

LaView LV-KDV2804W1-1TB Complete 960H Security System (White)

and 4 x 1.3MP Day and Night Indoor/Outdoor Cameras

 

 

Is that what you want?

[Brent1971 0]

I already have a DVR, it was $190 is 8chan 960H which they said can record up to 1200TVL (but the highest cameras he has now are about 1000TVL). I like the features and operation of the unit so far. It blows away my previous cheapie Dowson 16ch crap unit. One thing is that the setup for each camera only goes up to 944x480. That's still twice the vertical lines of my old analog and more than twice horizontal. But I dont know how it would pick up 1200x480, but he says it would. Not a big deal though.

 

What I really need are very small cameras that will put out this many lines (960H) and do so clearly because some high TVL cams put out a crap image, apparently.

[survtech 0]

Although I often disagree with thetoss, in this case, I wholeheartedly agree. There is no validity to analog CCTV claims of higher resolution than ~600TVL. So-called 1000TVL and 1200TVL cameras are manufacturers' hype based on the number of pixels in the sensor, not the actual image resolution. They cannot be duplicated in real life.

 

TVL is, by definition, the maximum number of distinct vertical lines that can be counted on a monitor in a square area where the height and width of the area used is equal to the total screen height just before they blur together. In practice, the camera under test is aimed at a test chart of increasing vertical lines per inch like below:

 

 

The number next to the place where individual lines just start to blur together is the TVL resolution of the camera expressed in hundreds of lines. The chart above only shows part of the total chart, which must cover the entire screen as seen below:

 

In the top picture, Camera 1 is a typical analog while Camera 2 is a 5MP IP camera.

[Brent1971 0]

OM I'm a bit confused but I will say the new DVR (which was worth $200 just for the better features) looks sharper. Even my wife said the same thing.

 

The settings as u see form my screen pic avove, all max out at 480 vertical pixels which I THINK is double my old analog DVR. Double is not bad.

 

As to that chart where the lines blur at the TVL point, doesnt that make the case that 1000TVL DOES EXIST (image on the right)? Explain... thanks!

[survtech 0]

Brent,

 

The image on the right is taken by a 5MP IP camera, not an analog camera. The one on the left is about the best any analog camera can do, no matter the TVL claims of the manufacturer.

 

Regarding your sharper images, likely your first DVR was limited to CIF, which is 320x240 (320x256 PAL). Also keep in mind that the 480 line spec would be vertical resolution (essentially of horizontal lines), rather than horizontal resolution, which is measured with vertical lines. I know that can be confusing but think of it as individual dots, rather than vertical lines. Vertical lines generate individual horizontal dots on an imaginary horizontal line and that's what is being counted. It's just easier to see vertical lines at some horizontal point than to just show one row of horizontal dots.

 

Perhaps a better explanation is that you should consider the vertical lines on the test pattern as a series of horizontal rows of dots, where each row lower has the dots slightly closer together.

[Brent1971 0]

Understood. So it looks like I doubled my true clarity by going to 480 vertical dots. The horizontal is the TVL I think, so 700, 960, 1200 is the number of dots wide (pickets on the fence). No sharper because the 480 stays the same but wider field of view.

 

I think that when I populate this with all 480+ vertical dot cameras of any width (TVL), I'll be about as good as possible for analog.

 

The next upgrade will be digital.

 

This one site shows about $400 min per camera for 5MP and who knows how much for the Digital Recorder. I have a 8 camera system so that would be over $4000. I wouldn't upgrade until that drops to $1000 which is quite some time.

 

Whats ridiculous is that my smartphone has 5MP and I could buy these all day long for $150, camera and everything else. I think the 5MP image sensor, even a good one, and the minimal electronics needed to write the images to IP packets, should be dirt cheap (and very small). But instead we have only the huge clunky and drastically overprices "box cams" etc to deal with. Someone is missing a very large boat!

[survtech 0]

It's all about production economics of scale. Smart phones are consumer products which are manufactured in quantities reaching millions while security cameras are typically manufactured in the hundreds to maybe thousands. The more you build, the cheaper each unit becomes.

 

On top of that, there is little comparison in terms of the capabilities of smart phones versus security cameras. Smart phone cameras have cheap fixed lenses and comparatively poor low light capabilities and don't have to have the camera portion compatible with other phones.

[the toss 0]

Although I often disagree with thetoss, .

 

I hadn't noticed , must pay more attention

[SunnyKim 2]

When we say the CCTV camera is analog, we mean the Video Image is to be transferred in the form of analog TV signal. Max bandwidth allowed in analog TV signal is about 3 Mhz, theoretically. The TV signal is fixed by the number of vertical lines(480 active lines for NTSC, and 576 active lines for PAL). The number of horizontal pixels can be also limited by "TVL", as shown on the brochure's of CCTV camera. As long as TVL is higher, the chip sets are newer and more advanced in image processing, so the quality will be better, we presume.

When we say Mega Pixel, it means Video Image is transferred in the different form, say IP (compressed) or HD-SDI (uncompressed).

[terryeh 0]

Hello;

I,m new here.

 

Good question "Brent1971" (What is 960H !)

It is referred to all over the internet as a standard.(960 x 480) One notch above D1

It requires (or matches to) 700tvl cameras (976 x 582)

and thirdly, this is the maxium resolution the anolog cables will support.

(So this is what I thought I knew)

 

So am I to understand that all of this is not true and that this standard by which everyone is selling DVR's these days, is not real ?!

 

I came here trying to understand how I would use 1200TVL cameras and boards (for sale all over the place), when, I thought I new the cables can't support this

(700TVL max) and the DVR also looks limited ? 1200TVL is a "Sony" chip ! Why do they make it if it can't work ?

A Sony chipped 1200TVL camera board can be bought for $20 vs about $15 for a 700TVL board.

So for 5 bucks more I've got a HD camera. But you're saying I can't use it ?

Or maybe I should ask; How do I use it? They will sell it to me, but make no reference as to what DVR (or cable) it matches to.

 

Thanks

Terry

[SunnyKim 2]

Hello;

I,m new here.

 

Good question "Brent1971" (What is 960H !)

It is referred to all over the internet as a standard.(960 x 480) One notch above D1

It requires (or matches to) 700tvl cameras (976 x 582)

and thirdly, this is the maxium resolution the anolog cables will support.

(So this is what I thought I knew)

Your understanding is OK, Terry

 

The analog TV signal (PAL, NTSC) is very much limited in carrying enough resolution for the video captured by a HD camera, what they call Mega Pixel, 1.3MP above.To be exact, more than 3 Mhz resolution can not be carried over the TV signal. So even the VGA sized (640X480X30 FPS) can not fit into 3 Mhz resolution or 6M pixelwise resolution per second. I mean theoretically. So we can claim that the 640 TVL is good enough to be represented as 960H. But when considering the most video contents can not always carry the black white lines (max contrast by each line), even 1200 TVL-horizontal resolution can fit into a total 3Mhz bandwidth of the TV signal.

To say in other words, the captured video data is to be filtered less than 3 Mhz before being loaded onto the TV signal. 1200 TVL (horizontal resolution) may have a good chance to be untouched and delivered, retaining good horizontal resolution as captured.

You must also note that the technology of image processing and sensors are always

getting better. So new one is better than old one, you may be assured. But I always believe the quality of its lens decides the quality of video.

 

And finally, when they say 960H, it is for analog. So buy the 960H DVR or Hybrid DVR that can work with HD transmitted signal (HD-SDI or HD-CVI), as well as analog signal (D1 or WD1, or 960H).

[saleh11 0]

If this is an analogue system ( and it sounds like it is ) then you have been conned with the DVR & your wasting your time time trying to find 1200 tvl cameras. If you do happen to find some then it will be another con like the one you've fallen for with the DVR. Analogue systems by design are limited to 580 tvl for NTSC and 640 tvl for PAL. Anything claimed above this is simply misrepresentation.

 

i agree , however the proof of that anythng over 640 TVL is misrepresentation ?

i know it has something to do with screen capability and digitising the signal in the DVR, BUT I DONT HAVE DEPTH IN THE INFO.

CAN U PROVIDE SUCH INFO?

It is confusing me now a days because many manufactureres are providing 700 tvl, 1100tvl , HD-SDI & AHD ...etc?

thank u

saleh