18 IP cam design

[robert 0]

Guys,

 

I need to quote a customer with cow farm(under a roof, indoors), 18 cams. They have office room where recorder will be located. Few cameras will be nearly 200m away from DVR. They have no preference - IP or HD-SDI, they simply need good quality images, 1.3mpix or 1080p.

 

I`m leaning towards IP system because:

 

1. PoE, no need for separate power cabling as for SDI cameras. Huge saving cost considering size of farm and meters of power cabling it would need.

2. I can easy extend PoE for long distance cameras with Veracity PoE extender.

3. Wide range of reasonably priced and good quality cameras.

4. I`ll be using Luxriot and will have direct support from them.

 

Luxriot guys will help me calculate PC/server spec I need, so that`s not an issue. I just wonder if HDD will be able to handle such amount of data recording

 

Because all cameras will be on motion detection, they won`t be recording at the same time, therefore bandwidth should be ok for 100mbit network, as H264 1080p cam at 12fps produces about 7mbps. But then - which CPU will be able to decode H264 for live view for 18 cameras? Huge decoding power required. Or live view will be second stream - JPEG. But what will happen to bandwidth them? Need to talk to Luxriot on this.

 

Looking at Arecont Vision MegaDome 2 domes or MegaView 2 all-in-one solution cameras. Need WDR, indoor & outdoor cams, with varifocal lenses.

 

Some areas are poorly lit, might need to use cameras with IR lighting(PoE might not be able to handle IR). Because its farm, would there will be lot of flies/bugs attracted to IR lighting coming from cameras? I`m trying to explain them - install decent lighting and we won`t need to use IR cameras or illuminators +its visible to human eye.

 

Guys, what do you think? Does this all sound right or have I missed something? Thanks!

 

Few images from farm:

Edited January 16, 2014 by Guest

[David Nicola 0]

Id stay away from Arecont Cameras. If you want a nice all in 1 camera go with AXIS Communications. I am a professional in the business and these are by far my favorite camera. I would run with their entire setup. from camera to server and storage. make it simple but sweet. Just my 2 cents

[robert 0]

David, Axis is just so damn expensive. Arecont because:

 

1. Good quality/cost ratio.

2. I can get them are very good prices.

3. Luxriot is in bed with Arecont, therefore I can get Arecont support from Luxriot guys.

 

But I`m open to other brands if they fit my requirements and price range.

[skomo 0]

I've had experience installing cameras in a similar situation. It was a horse stable.

It was probably 4-5 years ago.

I used the Samsung IR Bullets and the bugs and spiders loved them.

If you can not use IR, it would be best.

Get cameras that are IP66+ rated so cleaners can literally hose them down if they get too dirty/bug covered, and also have the cameras in a reachable location so if the hose doesnt clean them, a cloth and spray can easily reach.

As for NVR/Cameras, i do recommend Avigilon, due to the easy playback. but you could mix in the hikvision dome cameras, great bang for buck.

If price is an issue you could look at Acti, they should be able to do the over 16 camera software for free if it means they get the job, or even LG have a free IP VMS for their cameras...

Hope that helps

[robert 0]

I`m not too keen on HikVision - its pure Chinese product, it scares me.

 

Huviron just told me they don`t make their own DVR/NVRs, they are OEM HikVision

 

ACTi domes have manual iris.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Guest

[buellwinkle 0]

I would definitely go with non-IR domes. The problems I've had in the past with Arecont is poor support and not very good low light sensitivity. The Axis P33 series is very nice, good low light performance, remote focal length and focus adjustment, good warranty and support and just about all NVR software supports their cameras. The P3367 is my favorite, very good low light performance for a 5MP camera. Also, their Lightfinder cameras do very well with available light.

 

Don't know how cattle feel about white light vs. IR. Some animals may have their sleep disrupted by IR as much as with white light so maybe check with a veterinarian in the area. If you can get away with white light, putting in some white LED fixtures is way less expensive than IR fixtures. I use Raytec products, they do make a PoE product but you'll pay a premium for it and you are limited in your choices.

 

ACTi is a good choice too, about 1/2 the price of Axis/Arecont, and very good support and service and has a very good selection. You may even want to consider their new mini-PTZ that should be out today. They are relatively inexpensive, 10x optical zoom, small in size for a PTZ (a little larger than a regular outdoor dome) and run on standard PoE and come in various resolutions. It may be able to replace multiple cameras in locations where continuous monitoring is not critical. ACTi is supported by most NVR software solutions but also has a very good free solution that I feel would give Luxriot a run for it's money and now supports non-ACTi cameras. They charge for non-ACTi and cameras over the first 16.

 

The Veracity extenders are very good, never had a problem with them and priced well.

[robert 0]

Thank you winkle for your input.

 

I`m also creating second offer with Messoa cameras. Turns out they supply free NVR software and their 821 PRO and 831 PRO cameras are very well priced. Compared to Arecont +Luxriot, final of quote has lost about 4000 USD.

 

But I`m having problem finding unmanaged switch

 

- 1 gig as my bandwidht might go over 100

- unamanaged

- 24 ports

- All 24 ports PoE

- Minimum total PoE power 200w

- 802.3at or 802.3af, both would do

- Rack mounted or desktop, no preference

- Would love fanless, but not so important

 

HP, Planet, TP-link, Linksys, Trendnet - nothing. I`m sure I just don`t know right manufacturers as these are more consumer/business oriented ones. I might need to look for industrial equipements supppliers

[thewireguys 3]

Hikvision with Avigilon CORE software would be a killer combo for you.

[hardwired 0]

I haven't tried one yet, but Geovision has a 24 port switch (GV-POE2401), which meets your specs (except it is managed), at a pretty attractive price. I've seen it online under $500 USD.

 

If you get one, let us know how it works, that's a very good price for the specs.

[skomo 0]

i dont think ive ever come across a 24port unmanaged poe switch. the are either full managed or at least have a web interface.

If your looking for low cost, you could try the Zyxel GS1910-24HP or TPlink SG3424P.

They both have fans.

[ak357 0]

Thank you winkle for your input.

 

But I`m having problem finding unmanaged switch

 

- 1 gig as my bandwidht might go over 100

- unamanaged

- 24 ports

- All 24 ports PoE

- Minimum total PoE power 200w

- 802.3at or 802.3af, both would do

- Rack mounted or desktop, no preference

- Would love fanless, but not so important

 

You making big deal from nothing

here is sw for you

Netgear FS728TP100NAS ( managed )

you can get them way under $ 400

if customer think is too much money

run

[robert 0]

Why unmanaged? Because it only add extra complication of configuring it and there is no real need for managed.

[robert 0]

Hikvision with Avigilon CORE software would be a killer combo for you.

 

I emailed Avigilon to find out who is distributor for my region, to get their price list. But I know their pricing approx - I found leaked price list on the web some time ago.

[jeromephone 6]

Ditto on the netgear We are using them and have had no problems. they have a couple of 24 port full poe

check out there line as you may want to go 10/100/1000 for future.

[thewireguys 3]

Why unmanaged? Because it only add extra complication of configuring it and there is no real need for managed.

 

False and misleading statement.

[robert 0]

Why unmanaged? Because it only add extra complication of configuring it and there is no real need for managed.

 

False and misleading statement.

 

I`m not too clever on networking, therefore looking for unmanaged - plug & play, no issues with switch config.

[thewireguys 3]

That's the point there is no switch configuration with a managed switch unless you get to higher end gear.

 

All you would have to do is setup IP address of the switch if you want to access it. Having access to the switch GUI is very helpful if you ever need to power cycle a POE device.

[robert 0]

Thanks.

 

I was under impression MANAGED means its got huge GUI with endless network settings to configure. So I`m trying to avoid that.

[MaxIcon 0]

Corporate managed switches do have a vast array of settings, most of which you can ignore. I've run 3 different corporate switches (all older models bought cheap), and just set them up with the basic IP address info. You do need to drill down to the right locations for the POE management, and how easy that is depends on the switch.

 

Some switches have better info than others, such as per-port power usage reporting vs aggregate power usage, and some are easier to manage individual ports on than others. All the ones I've used sound like hovercrafts, but that's part of what you get with older tech.

 

Modern consumer grade managed switches may have less detailed settings. I haven't run any of those.

 

I'm not sure you'll find an unmanaged 24 port POE switch, since this size is still part of the corporate market. Likewise, fanless switches in that size are rare, because they'll use over 350W fully loaded, and that's a lot of heat to dissipate without fans. These switches tend to favor reliability over low noise. Best bet is to find one that dynamically controls the fans based on load or temperature.

[robert 0]

Hikvision with Avigilon CORE software would be a killer combo for you.

 

Are you dead serious about HikVision Are their cameras any good ? I have heard only bad feedback, at my end.

[AdamDaze 0]

Hikvisions got a good rep for a budget brand...I believe Swann and Dahua (edit, it's Swann and Lorex, Dahua are a seperate company) are rebranded hikvision. I just bought 12 of these ...

 

http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=2135

 

See how they go. You can spend more, and get a lot more features (like on board SD, variable focus/zoom, motorised directional control (aka ptz) audio in/out, alarm trigger, seperate day/night sensors, etc etc)....but do you need them?

Edited January 20, 2014 by Guest

[Kawboy12R 0]

Swann and Lorex are rebranded Hiks. Dahua is a separate company.

[marley1 0]

On bigger installs I like that Dell 10/100 POE Switch. Bit more expensive but next business day replacement and lifetime support.

[PokerMunkee 0]

I've installed 30 of the Hikvision 3MP bullet cams outdoors, haven't had one fail yet. Survived some cold nights in Colorado and northern Nevada so far (-10F). Great camera for ~$220.

 

I like Netgear's PoE 24 port switch for $350. Has 4 Gigabit ports and 24 PoE ports. It's managed but you don't have to config it. Just plug it in and off you go. Have 24 Areconts on this in at casino and it's ran 24/7 for 5 years with no hiccups.

 

[robert 0]

Thanks.

 

I have finally created matrix of PoE switches to make my life easier. Some info is missing as I haven`t found it yet. Don`t take it as 100% correct. Here is it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hu7qfgvx09mo6if/PoE_switches.xls