drocer 0 Posted January 20, 2014 I have a fairly new system sitting unused that I would like to use as an NVR; however, I keep seeing huge range of system requirements being reported. From Blue Iris needing an i7 to ACTi software working on atom based nettops. Intel G630 (dual core; 2.7GHz) Sandy Bridge6GB RAM 1TB Gigabit My requirements aren't even that much. I require nothing beyond a live view and motion records. 10-15fps live, 30fps motion record, no smartphone/remote, no advanced features beyond that 1-2Mp is fine 7-8 channel max 1. Build a system around lower end hardware. Looking at ACTi, hikvision, and xprotect go software. This would be a client with a monitor attached that does nothing else. 2. Upgrade CPU to i7-2600 (max my MB will take). $250+ Is it even worth it? I can get complete i7-4770 systems for $500-$600. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buellwinkle 0 Posted January 20, 2014 You have to take heat and electricity costs into the equation. The i7 uses about 50% more power and gives off much more heat than the G630. Also, when using even 50-60% of an i7 24/7 the machine is going to run hot, meaning the fan will be on full speed most of the time, a problem I ran into. But consider more than CPU and money, consider functionality. For example, being able to view multiple cameras during playback. For example, recently I needed to view a sequence of events from multiple cameras where the suspect (my kid), parked her car (driveway cam), enter through the front door (front door cam), went to our guest bedroom (indoor cams). Trying to coordinate the 3 cameras by looking one a time would be very tedious in BlueIris, especially realizing that there's no timeline to scan. This is just one example of features that are lacking in BlueIris. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaxIcon 0 Posted January 20, 2014 BI doesn't have the ability to use different frame rates between live and recorded views, so that's not an option if it's a critical requirement for you. The typical low-CPU system is record only, with client viewing on remote systems, as it's the multiple stream decoding that contributes to a lot of CPU usage. With Xprotect Go and other record-only NVRs, you'd have to run both the NVR and the client on the same box to use a single-box solution, which will increase CPU use. Xprotect users would have to tell you how much, as I don't have it installed any more. You don't mention how long you'll need to keep recordings for; Xprotect Go limits you to 5 days, I believe. To get more, you'd have to upgrade to the paid version, where the software costs need to be compared against hardware costs for other systems. Best bet is to install demo versions of the NVRs you're thinking about. This should make it clear which one works best for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buellwinkle 0 Posted January 20, 2014 Milestone does let you run the client on a separate machine to minimize load on the server which is what I do. With BlueIris, you can reduce some of the CPU of rendering the image by minimizing the window but no option to separate the two workloads which to me is huge because my NVR PC is just that, a PC tucked away, out of site. When I want to see what's going on, I can run the client software on any PC or on one of my tablets. ACTi NVR is a little different in that the client is all browser based, so you run the server process on one PC, then the client anywhere you want on IE (only IE). ACTi NVR is only free for ACTi cameras, after that I believe it's about $50/cam. I've run all 3 for a while. I had BlueIris for about 4 years, still run it on one location but no motion detect, no recording, just for remote view some cameras through their re-streamer, actually very low CPU use for that use case. I've run ACTi NVR for about 2 years, great product but switched to Milestone a few months ago for 3 reasons, 1. at the time, they only supported ACTi and I started buying non-ACTi cameras, 2. I use a MacBook Air when I travel and it's not Mac friendly, 3. they didn't have an Android app at the time (now they do). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted January 20, 2014 You have to take heat and electricity costs into the equation. The i7 uses about 50% more power and gives off much more heat than the G630. Also, when using even 50-60% of an i7 24/7 the machine is going to run hot, meaning the fan will be on full speed most of the time, a problem I ran into. But consider more than CPU and money, consider functionality. For example, being able to view multiple cameras during playback. For example, recently I needed to view a sequence of events from multiple cameras where the suspect (my kid), parked her car (driveway cam), enter through the front door (front door cam), went to our guest bedroom (indoor cams). Trying to coordinate the 3 cameras by looking one a time would be very tedious in BlueIris, especially realizing that there's no timeline to scan. This is just one example of features that are lacking in BlueIris. Swann NVR8-7200's fan runs constantly so noise isn't an issue. 80-125W at load for an i7 system. I was already leaning towards Xprotect Go. I was under the impression only Blue Iris taxes the CPU that much. Xprotect Go - 8 camera live (10-15fps) with 30fps record @ 50% load on an i7 is acceptable. 5 day record time is fine as this system will be used more of a CCTV with a few playbacks. 30fps motion record is the only absolute. PC NVR --- i7 PC as client and server (Xprotect Go)+POE switch+ 8 Hikvision or Dahau 1080p cameras (lower quality is fine if it taxes the system less)$1800 Swann NVR8-7200 + 8 1080p cams$1599 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dahua-ION-Series-ESDV-NVRION-8-8-Channel-1080p-Onvif-NVR-for-IP-Cameras-/251350907108(rebadged Dahua NVR2108H)+8 POE switch+HDD+8 1080p dahua only cam's$1350 2x http://www.samsclub.com/sams/qsee-4x4-secrty-sys/prod11570578.ip?navAction=push (don't care that it's only 720p|quicker/cheaper/safer then buying from china)+http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dahua-ION-Series-ESDV-NVRION-8-8-Channel-1080p-Onvif-NVR-for-IP-Cameras-/251350907108(rebadged Dahua NVR2108H)+POE switch$1247 I originally skipped the PC NVR because I thought #2 would be "easier" to operate for the person I'm buying this for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted January 21, 2014 BI doesn't have the ability to use different frame rates between live and recorded views, so that's not an option if it's a critical requirement for you. The typical low-CPU system is record only, with client viewing on remote systems, as it's the multiple stream decoding that contributes to a lot of CPU usage. With Xprotect Go and other record-only NVRs, you'd have to run both the NVR and the client on the same box to use a single-box solution, which will increase CPU use. Xprotect users would have to tell you how much, as I don't have it installed any more. You don't mention how long you'll need to keep recordings for; Xprotect Go limits you to 5 days, I believe. To get more, you'd have to upgrade to the paid version, where the software costs need to be compared against hardware costs for other systems. Best bet is to install demo versions of the NVRs you're thinking about. This should make it clear which one works best for you. 5 days in fine. The problem with the demo is that I don't have an i7 laying around. I either have to buy in completely or not. I have four Swan 820's to test but I know that's going to absolutely kill the g630 without even trying it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaxIcon 0 Posted January 21, 2014 If your user isn't very technical, a dedicated NVR is hard to beat for robustness and simplicity. The bulk of my support for dedicated NVRs is telling them where the procedure is for copying clips to a thumb drive, and re-sending it when they're unable to find it on their PC's desktop. I have to replace a hard drive every few years, but that's about it. PC based systems are great, but definitely require more monitoring and hand-holding, especially if they start browsing the web with it. You could always try Xprotect Go on the G620, which may have enough horsepower for it. BI would definitely choke it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buellwinkle 0 Posted January 21, 2014 With 8 HD cameras on first generation i3 with xProtect, all at full frame rate, I run about 10-15% busy on the server. Can't even imagine an i7, some day I'll own one, in the meantime, i5 is as fast as I go. I would imagine with an i7, you should be able to get up possibly 32 cameras given you had the version that supports that many cameras. Any software that does in-camera motion detection is going to be pretty efficient, XProtect, Exacq, Avigilon. Any software that does in-PC motion detection is going to a CPU hog like BlueIris, Zoneminder, iSpyConnect. As for ease of use, nothing impresses more than handing a tablet, tap on the XProtect app and see all the cameras, pinch to zoom, playback recordings. And it's all free, which is very cool. Also the web interface for remote access works pretty well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted January 25, 2014 With 8 HD cameras on first generation i3 with xProtect, all at full frame rate, I run about 10-15% busy on the server. Can't even imagine an i7, some day I'll own one, in the meantime, i5 is as fast as I go. I would imagine with an i7, you should be able to get up possibly 32 cameras given you had the version that supports that many cameras. Any software that does in-camera motion detection is going to be pretty efficient, XProtect, Exacq, Avigilon. Any software that does in-PC motion detection is going to a CPU hog like BlueIris, Zoneminder, iSpyConnect. As for ease of use, nothing impresses more than handing a tablet, tap on the XProtect app and see all the cameras, pinch to zoom, playback recordings. And it's all free, which is very cool. Also the web interface for remote access works pretty well. Was able to score a refurbished dell. Upgrade CPU+new SFF case+having another power cord/box+having worry about failures vs: 23" touch i7-4770s 8GB / 1TB 3yr on site warranty $585 Now I'm covered from all angles. Thanks for help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted January 26, 2014 1 1080p bullet from costco (hikvision 2032) Intel G630 CPU Passmark: 2411 Windows 7 64bit Just playback for testing No settings beyond resolution changed in camera iVMS-PCNVR substream@30fps 0-1% 720p@25fps 3-5% 1080p@25fps 20% 3MP@12.5fps 25% Blue Iris substream@30fps didn't even bother with ivms reporting 1% only 720p@25fps 20% 1080p@4fps 10% 1080p@10fps 30% 1080p@25fps 40-45% 3MP@12.5fps 25% 1080p@25fps is what I'm likely going to use. So that is 4-5 cam vs 2 cam If these were all 720p I wouldn't have to buy anything. Even at 1080p, you could easily use an Intel i3-i5 NUC as an NVR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted February 2, 2014 Had to change dell order due to space issues. i7-37704GB iVMS-PCNVR - full record 8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 3-10% " title="Applause" /> Blue Iris - full record 8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 45-55% vs G630 iVMS-PCNVR - live view only 1 camera - 1080p@25fps 20% Blue Iris - live view only 1 camera - 1080p@25fps 40-45% So that's 17MP without breaking a sweat. 4GB RAM is enough; 2GB was left unused. I have no idea why that was so light on RAM. Just want to put more numbers out there. i7-3770/i7-4770 or anything with a 9,000+ passmark should do 40MP with ease. Was going to compare against xprotect go, but that has really terrible installation/setup problems with third-party cameras like hikvision. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Xprotect Go and Axxon next for comparison. i7-37704GB Axxon Next - full record with client open8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 1-6%FREE = 16 cameras, 1TB storage, 1 server. iVMS-PCNVR - full record8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 3-10% FREE = everything Xprotect Go - full record with client open8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 8-15%FREE = 8 camera, 5 day record, 1 server, annual renewal of free license Blue Iris - full record8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 45-55%$50 unlimited everything. High CPU usage due to software motion recoding only. Does not support in camera hardware motion recording. Honorable mention: Gsurf Pro. Worked with hikvision and hardware motion control but difficulty in using motion regions vs entire frame motion. Also noticeable lag to reconnect to cameras when switching from playback to live view. 8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 10-15% Edited February 11, 2014 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pcmcg 0 Posted February 10, 2014 $50 unlimited everything. High CPU usage due to software motion recoding only. Does not support in camera hardware motion recording. This is for Blue Iris only, yes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buellwinkle 0 Posted February 10, 2014 That's a killer deal on an i7-4770 computer with a 23" monitor. Good testing. So which one are you going with? Have you tested the remote web client and smartphone clients of each? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted February 11, 2014 $50 unlimited everything. High CPU usage due to software motion recoding only. Does not support in camera hardware motion recording. This is for Blue Iris only, yes? Just blue iris. The others are free. Will edit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted February 11, 2014 That's a killer deal on an i7-4770 computer with a 23" monitor. Good testing. So which one are you going with? Have you tested the remote web client and smartphone clients of each? IVMS-4200 PCNVR. Axxon Next was the best. Enough recording, expandable to 16 cameras, least CPU intensive, hikvision 100% supported, setup was easy. Took a bit tweak the "operator manned CCTV" to a home NVR, but it worked perfectly. Playback was easy for me to understand but not great for non-tech people. So IVMS-4200 PCNVR and IVMS-4500 on android is what I'm going with. It's the easiest to install, maintain, use, fix, expand, and it's free. Only "con" is the ridiculously small timeline on playback. 1x8 pixel line on a black background? Xprotect only came in third because of low camera's (I'm already at the max of eight) and enormous cost increase to add 2 simple baby monitor cameras. 1 year timebombed license just killed it. Smartphone access worked fine with minimal stain on PC but didn't feel as polished as it could be. A few older android handsets, didn't run that great either. 1. Smartphone access - IVMS-4500 once setup, was the best 2. Sequenced playback - supported in Xprotect and IVMS; both went crazy playing back 8 cams at once (60% CPU load that never went away and required restarting of both programs) 3. 64bit - none were. Xprotect Go client was 64bit, backend was 32bit. Still don't know why people go on about adding more than 4GB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted February 28, 2014 Power consumption of i7-3770 NVR. Was worried about how much power this i7 would be eating running 24/7. I assumed it would be pushing 60-80W constantly given reviews of idle power consumption. Plugged in a killawatt device: Idle-- 26W 8 3MP cameras recording in background-- 38W Client / Live view open-- 42W It does shoot up to 40-60W in the client when doing playback, but drops back when done. I was going to go crazy cutting power doing additional things but may not even have to. This is as low as a "low powered" NAS. IIRC, regular ARM NVR devices use 15W; I'm pretty sure I could come closer to that by: Killing hyperthreading or two cores Unplugging DVD drive. Low powered HDD. (going to do this-saves 2W more) Total system draw with 8 camera's + PCNVR = 78-98W (IR for night) Total system draw with 8 camera's + ARM based NVR = 55-71W (IR for night) 23-27W delta. Depending on power rates that's $15-20 extra a year to use a PC over an ARM device. Considering I'm not locked into one camera manufacturer or software and can expand, I think it's worth it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drocer 0 Posted March 4, 2014 Exacq Vision Start Added: i7-37704GB Axxon Next - full record with client open8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 1-6%FREE = 16 cameras, 1TB storage, 1 server. iVMS-PCNVR - full record8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 3-10% FREE = everything Xprotect Go - full record with client open8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 8-15%FREE = 8 camera, 5 day record, 1 server, annual renewal of free license Blue Iris - full record8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 45-55%$50 unlimited everything. High CPU usage due to software motion recoding only. Does not support in camera hardware motion recording. Honorable mention: Gsurf Pro. Worked with hikvision and hardware motion control but difficulty in using motion regions vs entire frame motion. Also noticeable lag to reconnect to cameras when switching from playback to live view. 8 cameras - 1080p@30fps 10-15% FREE Not worth it: Exacq Vision Start - full record with client open Exacq Vision is pretty terrible for paid software. Windows and linux versions gave the same result. Hikvision driver took 5-10minutes to randomly connect all eight cameras. ONVIF driver had no advanced settings. I'd rather use Gsurf Pro. 8 cameras - 1080p@30fps or substream@12fps 15-20% PAID everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grege 0 Posted March 4, 2014 I was using Blue Iris but it was a drain on my PC which made the vides be choppy. I tried the ACTi software since I have ACTi cameras but I was getting too many false positives and when I asked ACTi about it, they looked at my setup, tweaked it a little, and said that is the best it gets because of using them outdoors. I tested Sighthound at the end of last year when they had a free trial for multiple cameras and liked it. I just switched last week and have been very happy with it. I have not noticed a drain on my PC and the videos it captures are very smooth. They also now have an Andriod app where you can view your cameras and the clips it captures. Their software also pushes an alert to the app when motion is detected. Here is video of some motion it capture this morning that I just uploaded to YouTube. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
