Car Vandalism- See Pictures of house for suggestions

[surf1div1 0]

Hi,

Need some help to address some vandalism that has happened to my van which is parked across the street. Because of the mailbox in front of my house, I can't keep the car parked anywhere but where it is. Here is the web address for reference:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/surf1div1/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c01_photoalbum=showdefault&_c02_owner=1&_c=photoalbum

 

From my southwest corner of my house (most accessible for a camera) to where the car is about 70'. I have a flood light that comes on when you approach the house, but obviously that won't help "spotlighting" the Van(it's the blue one) across the way. I would prefer a b/w high res varifocal that is very discreet for two purposes-don't tip of whoever is destroying the car, and second to keep the house from looking like were drug dealers. For this reason I'm partial to a bullet- but have considered a dome. Problem is that they would be mounted under the garage eaves and the underside is stucco-not sure of how easy it would be to mount any of them. If there's advantages to the dome, then I'll consider them, but the less obtrusive the better. Also, the camera would be facing the Southwest, and afternoon light would be hitting it. I have a motorhome in the front driveway, and would like to keep the house covered so would be using another camera on the Southeast corner of the house as well. Those are the main cameras. Also, I'm planning on installing a camera under the eave just to the right of the door entrance (see picture). I could place possibly a dome if there's an advantage, but looking for suggestions as to what to get. The entrace kind of faces another home and I've included in the website address a drawing of the layout with measurements of the house and pertinent details. Also, I have the back/sideyards that I would like to cover but there not as critical at this point. My focus is on quality for equipment, and would need a minimum of four cameras, but possibly more. Budget wise I 'm open- I would prefer to stay within $1,000 for four cameras, but depending on what I would trade off, would consider more(like the southwest camera having a zoom feature). Re: the pictures- First picture is a drawing of the house, second picture is across the stree-motorhome in front and looking at the house, right side is the Southeast corner, left southwest corner. As you can see, if I try and mount the cameras from the second floor eaves I don't have coverage of what's happening in the driveway. The third picture is from the southwest corner facing the street with the van I'm trying to cover across from it (in blue). Fourth picture is from eave above house looking out from that office window above the garage. Fifth picture is from southeast side of house off the driveway facing street on the otherside of the motorhome. There's other shots of various shots from on top of the garage facing the entrance, and back/sideyards.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Arnold

[VST_Man 1]

concerning the mounting onto stucco....................first attach a base for the camera BEFORE you try to dril, ect. that base will hold it all together and you won't have stucco falling off. you have plywood to screw into under the eves, right? nice treated wood?

 

can you put a light pole at the end of your driveway/property? If so you may get a better angle/pic? the street light will give you better light response so you should be able to go B&W lo high res cams.

 

and you can mount motion lights to help your cams.

 

and you have lots of angles and reflection type area's around the house so you'll get pretty good IR if you set the cams right.

 

"if" the vandalism is as bad as you say you can go with a wireless cam mounted/powered to the vehicle across the street..............i did this for a vehicle maintenance lot and they moved that camera around to where they wanted.....

[surf1div1 0]

Hi VST...I'm answering within your message-

 

concerning the mounting onto stucco....................first attach a base for the camera BEFORE you try to dril, ect. that base will hold it all together and you won't have stucco falling off. you have plywood to screw into under the eves, right? nice treated wood?

 

Not sure if it's treated wood if there is eaves (it appears so, but would have to use those type of detector's that find studs in walls-hopefully their accurate, otherwise possibly using a toggle?- I'm assuming it's the same wood inside the garage that goes out creating the eaves.

 

can you put a light pole at the end of your driveway/property? If so you may get a better angle/pic? the street light will give you better light response so you should be able to go B&W lo high res cams.

 

Light pole-I'm not sure what that would entail-it could make it so costly that it would be economically obsolete.

 

and you can mount motion lights to help your cams.

 

I'm thinking of using the existing motion detector's that are in the existing fixtures and then changing the field on it to go across the street, but, I'm doubting the accuracy of them going 70' from the light fixture to "pick up" anyone who might be walking along the sidewalk across the street, and possibly using the side of the van as cover to further damage the van.

 

and you have lots of angles and reflection type area's around the house so you'll get pretty good IR if you set the cams right.

 

If your referring to illuminators, I'm not favoring them for a couple of reasons- one- the additional expense, and stealth that would be lost in using them. As an option, I would if NEEDED use a cam possibly in the motorhome to give me a better field of view if needed, but, am looking for a more permanent solution that is first and foremost very discrete. The problem I anticipate with the Motorhome in addition is that when I had it plugged in, the power consumption really increased for some reason(nothing was on) but possibly I could use a 12 volt system that would plug into the two cigaret lighters and use one of those solar chargers to keep the house batteries fresh. Thoughts?

 

"if" the vandalism is as bad as you say you can go with a wireless cam mounted/powered to the vehicle across the street..............i did this for a vehicle maintenance lot and they moved that camera around to where they wanted.....

 

The frequency of the vandalism since this one individual did this has been over 7 months since he was arrested, and since then it has stopped. But, I'm looking for coverage in the future when he end's up going to court and I testify. Currently theirs a warrant for his arrest (do you believe it? They can't just go to where he's living and arrest him, they have to have "cause" to pick him up. I've checked with the DA and the local police can't just knock on his door unless they have probable cause- go figure)

Whew... thanks again for you feedback and any future help- two heads are better then one, and I'm greatful for suggestions as to the setup of this so that I can make an informed purchase.

 

Surf1div1

[VST_Man 1]

i would not be so quick to be so "discreet" in the installation of your cams. most "problems" go sown the street if they see cams.....i'd show them off and then some.

[rory 0]

You will want something like a 12mm lens, or a varifocal 3-12mm. A 5-50mm would be better for identifying the criminal but then you are talking money (as you could zoom right in on the van like 20mm), and will also require extra lighing in the Van, or IR, as when you zoom the lens in close, it will get darker, requiring more light.

 

If the lighting level is low, and you cant use IR, then you would at least need an Exview type BW camera. Not easy to find in anything but a Box camera, without a decent varifocal lens. Ofcourse then its not discreet anymore.

 

Optionally you could find a Mini BW Weather resistant Dome, and use a 16mm fixed lens. WizKId has these, though the Extreme EX45SX.3xxbh LXR version is a lower lux chip, much like the Exview. The EX45 isnt cheap though, but you will want either Exview or in the Extreme case, LXR. The WizKid BW WZ30 dome is pretty inexpensive however, and comes in that white housing.

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=2

http://www.extremecctv.com/products/index.cfm?img=19

 

Ofcourse no guarantee you will see anything unless you add more light.

 

Rory

[surf1div1 0]

i would not be so quick to be so "discreet" in the installation of your cams. most "problems" go sown the street if they see cams.....i'd show them off and then some.

 

VST...while I understand the rational, this specific vandal is targeting my stuff for a reason-a revenge one, so he's not going down the street (as in a crime of opportunity). I just want to have the evidence to document it beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, how discreet do you think a camera would be using the cover of the eave?

 

Thanks again...

 

Surf1div1

[rory 0]

Do you have an alarm in the van?

[surf1div1 0]

Do you have an alarm in the van?

 

Yes, that was how we narrowed down who vandalized it. It went off and after checking what caused it, one of our neighbors id'd the culprit.

 

Also, one thought that I might consider would be the feasability of using that RV in the driveway to possibly use something less discreet poking out through the window, but using the house batteries in the RV to power it. I'm not sure that this would have an advantage other then getting me 25' closer and using the cover of the RV to monitor the house/car. I would lose the permanent aspect, but I might have better coverage by using a decent temp mount within the motorhome and having the cover of the smoked glass to see out to monitor the house in the current position in the driveway. Is that far-fetched?

[rory 0]

it will work but you will loose some lighting ability as you would be looking through the smoked glass .. want clear glass or will cut down the light level even more, for day night apps we never use tinted or smoked, always clear.

[surf1div1 0]

it will work but you will loose some lighting ability as you would be looking through the smoked glass .. want clear glass or will cut down the light level even more, for day night apps we never use tinted or smoked, always clear.

 

Thanks Rory for the feedback. Back to perm...

 

Surf1div1

[surf1div1 0]

Hi Rory, I thought what I would do is take a shot with my Minolta without the flash- Based on the picture here, would a camera like this work:

http://www.cctvspecialty.com/1soexcobuca.html

It is a Bulltet day/night by Sony 1/3" with the Ex-View but instead of the standard lens, using one like your suggesting- possibly a varifocal 3-12MM.

Here is the webpage of the street for you to check out:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/surf1div1/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c01_photoalbum=showdefault&_c02_owner=1&_c=photoalbum

 

As you can see I'm still trying for that stealth factor and low profile. I'm curious if the dome by wiz kid would do it and do you feel that Dome's would be better then the bullet that I've listed above. If you could contrast the advantages for the dome vs. a camera like the one above. Thanks again.

 

You will want something like a 12mm lens, or a varifocal 3-12mm. A 5-50mm would be better for identifying the criminal but then you are talking money (as you could zoom right in on the van like 20mm), and will also require extra lighing in the Van, or IR, as when you zoom the lens in close, it will get darker, requiring more light.

 

If the lighting level is low, and you cant use IR, then you would at least need an Exview type BW camera. Not easy to find in anything but a Box camera, without a decent varifocal lens. Ofcourse then its not discreet anymore.

 

Optionally you could find a Mini BW Weather resistant Dome, and use a 16mm fixed lens. WizKId has these, though the Extreme EX45SX.3xxbh LXR version is a lower lux chip, much like the Exview. The EX45 isnt cheap though, but you will want either Exview or in the Extreme case, LXR. The WizKid BW WZ30 dome is pretty inexpensive however, and comes in that white housing.

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=2

http://www.extremecctv.com/products/index.cfm?img=19

 

Ofcourse no guarantee you will see anything unless you add more light.

 

Rory

[rory 0]

hi, thats simply a color exview bullet, not a True Day Night, IMO it wont see anything much in that lighting. You really need a BW Exview, or a True Day Night which switches to a true BW Mode.

 

Regardless, from the lighting in the picture, you still wont see a whole lot without IR or Aditional lighting.

 

I would feel confident, after usng them in extremely dark locations with very minimal additional lighting (such as the light you have there off the the left), that a Sanyo Day Night BOX camera will be able to see something, though for identifying purposes you would need additional lighting. I had them in areas where i could not see to walk, and they produced very well, ofcourse i was also using Infrared with them, but i tested them with the IR off as well.

 

However it wouldnt be a cheap setup. If you are on a strict budget and just want something to see at night, then best bet would be a simple BW Bullet, or a Vandal Dome if it is accessible. If you then still cant see well, you can always add IR.

 

Ill leave you with these images, Box camera is the Sanyo Day Night, not quite as good as some others such as the GE, etc, but for the price, it works well, and it is what we consider a TRUE day Night with Mech Switch over and IR cut Filter. if using with Infrared will require IR lenses, otherwise a normal lens will suffice. A 1/2" Day Night would be even better, but can get very costly, and not always required. A f:095 lens such as the Fujinon/GE lens would be good for that low light area.

 

[surf1div1 0]

Hi Rory, and thanks again for your continued support- I really appreicite this forum's patience for those of us end users really trying to get as much feedback as we can prior to putting this together.

OK- so, based on your feedback, that won't work- I really am trying to stay away from the IR. One, there's the additional issue of where to put it which in order to reach 75' I'm anticipating a whole lot of LED's and the glow that comes with it. Candidly, I would rather not try and do this on the cheap/budget. Though, my wife is saying that the car just isn't worth spending a lot of money in equipment to deal with this. I've tried relocating the car in front of the mailbox, but it is a hassle (mail-man, parking my other car (I need to get rid of that RV, but the wife likes her 'comforts')

 

Given my druthers, can you contrast some model #'s you would suggest, and possibly suppliers here that you or anyone else would support for the camera's your suggesting.

 

Also, some Day/Night 1/2' you would consider. Since I'm getting it in my head (ok, for tonght I am) that a bullet won't cut it, i DON"T want a box camera(discreet goes out the window) which brings us to either the Wiz Kid or the Extreme in a Dome- what is the difference in cost?

 

Whew...thanks Rory-

 

Surf1

[rory 0]

Ok, no prob. Extreme is very expensive. WizKid can be very cheap, in the BW domes, specifically the WZ30, though it doesnt have a gimble, the WZ46 costs a little more but can be mounted anywhere.

 

1 2

3 4

 

1 = Color OEM Bullet camera, 0.5 lux

2 = Color High Res Vandal Dome Super HAD Camera 0.5 lux

3 = BW Exview OEM Bullet Camera (didnt lasty long but saw good at night)

4 = BW Provideo Bullet Camera (lasted for years)

 

2-4 locations are very dark, especially #3

 

[surf1div1 0]

OK Rory, I like #1,and 2 for day, , but at night, there's absolutely nothing seen in #2. (btw, sorry folks for taking so long to respond, but I've been relocated to a new office/managment, yada yada yada . So, how do I get around that? Would this camera offer me more for the application(front of the house you'll recall has a FOV of 60' out): Panasonic WV-CW474AS to possibly see as well as the shot's you have here (as in shot #1 which is a OEM bullet?) It's night time shot appears to 'my' eyes the best. Consider the source What I want is the night view of #4, but the discrete aspect of # 1. Do they make that product , yet ))

 

 

Arnold

[rory 0]

1, 3, and 4 are all OEM bullets,

 

1 is cheap color 1/4 CCD, 350/380TVL (depending who you ask)

3 is cheap BW exview BW 400TVL 0.02 Lux

4 is Provideo CVC-321WPS 420TVL 0.1 lux

[rory 0]

The color camera, #1 is the only place there is alot of light, in the other 3 locations it will be a pitch black image, so really its fine ONLY if you have ALOT of light. Basically camera 1 will be worst than camera 2 if placed in the same location as Camera 2,3 and 4. Camera 4 would be very dark also if placed in Camera 3's location, as Camera 3 is Exview and sees much more in low light.

 

Rory

[Jasper 0]

I like that Provideo camera, but I can see the difference with the Exview chip. Also anything lower than a .05 lux is going to give you really good performance in really low light. .02 is excellent.

 

You just can't beat a BW camera for low light situations.

[rory 0]

Yeah i just installed another one of those Exview BW bullets for someone, they were broke so anyway, its a cheap camera ... not the highest grade Exview CCD so daytime looks pretty shabby, but it does well in low light. The provideo was a better quality all around, but not as low light as the Exview one .. plus the Provideo one cost more. That exview bullet is really small too, like under 2 inches long.

 

If i was in da Budget Biz, all I would sell would be a really really cheap CMOS color bullet, the color CCD budget bullet, that Exview BW bullet, and the cheapest hidden B/W smoke detector camera I could find .. that would be it .. forget the domes and forget day night .. its not budget anymore if you want some decent quality. And just sell the GV250 and a budget 4channel stand alone, and Probably the PowerTelecomm 16 channel Embedded Board.

[Jasper 0]

Well if that is the case the Provideo would be a better choice. I thought the specs on the Provideo was like .05, but I keep seeing it quoted as 0 because of the IR on it.

 

It seems like the Provideo performs ok in low light. I have a .05 BW camera here that is washed out during the day so I use a color, then swtich on the BW at night. That's my Day/Night camera.

[rory 0]

Yep you could build your own, using a photocell and some minimal electronic experience. Its the case/housing part that would stump me ... thats manufacturing and im no good at that ... otherwise not many people actually make cameras these days, they generally just source the components from Japan .. and manufacturer the housings etc.

 

It said 0.1 lux when I got it 5 or so years ago, it sais 0.02 lux now, but i think its still 0.1 lux, that extra 0 is the normal OEM misrepresentation. Exview would be 0.02 lux - if that.

[Jasper 0]

If you could have a cheap color cam for the day and another cheap BW for the night it could work. Just would need to figure out how to get the photo cell to trigger a switch of some kind to switch from the color to the BW camera.

 

That way you don’t need to build a housing. Just use two separate cameras. Extra wiring and stuff but still cheaper than what you would have to spend on a good Day/Night Camera.

[cachecreekcctv 0]

Have done exactly that!! Use color cam in daytime and great Exview BW at night. I made my own control panel. Run all cam wiring back to it. Basically, get a decent size panel, I had an old one lying around.Needs to be a raintight panel at least. Mount a 120vac photocell on top . Use Myers hubs whenever you exit the panel, since it will be outdoors. You will need to make a backplane to mount all your accessories on, which will mount inside the panel itself. Punch three 1/2" holes in panel, one on top, two on bottom. You will need to use two 11-pin "ice cube" relays and sockets (Din mount) for six cameras (actually up to 12 cameras) These will be "3-pole, dual throw"You also need to mount three strips of "DIN" rail inside to mount everything on. Mount your transformer (at least 150 watt). You need a 120VAC power cord, three prong. The photocell will always have power, but when the lights go out, it switches on, and sends 120vac to the ice cube relays. The 24vac transformer is used on the stationary poles of the relays, and allows only one set of contacts to be made at any time. Run 120vac cord into one of the bottom hubs, and run all your 24vac (camera) wiring through the other. Must all be fused (again, Din mount fuses) though. I will try to get some pics up, but I built this last year and it works great for me!

[rory 0]

Should make some of them for us to buy, then we can use simple cheap color and cheap BW bullets in a cheap housing .. Hey ill buy one .. or two .. or ..

[cachecreekcctv 0]

Hey, I used to build machinery panels all the time! Love building panels, especially new designs. I built panels which were over 6 feet wide by 6 feet tall. Programmable controllers inside. This day/night panel is far too basic for me to sell, anyone can build this in a day. Just remember, two voltages, 120vac and 24vac. Just keep them separate! If your cams are 12vdc, you will need to have another panel, as I wouldn't want to put DC voltage inside with all the relays, etc.( I might try that though, and test my 12vdc cams. ) Nowadays, all items are "DIN" mount on DIN rail material. Circuit breakers, fuses, terminal blocks, etc. etc. Everything I put inside panel is "UL listed". If you can mount security lighting, you could build this panel, believe me. Run one leg of 24vac to each cam, just like running neutral in AC wiring. Use relays to power other side of AC. Color cams (daytime) use the normally closed contacts on relays (11 pin). When light goes dark, photoeye trips, sends 120vac to relay coil(s), relays move to other side of contacts which are the BW cams. 11 pin ice cube relays are common and will allow 3 BW cams and 3 color cams on each relay. I use DIN mount fuse blocks, mini style. Fuse everything!!