Car Vandalism- See Pictures of house for suggestions

[rory 0]

Yeah no experience with high voltage .. cant it be done with low voltage, like with the Extreme CCTV's EX82 ...? See the image below. .

 

[cachecreekcctv 0]

I guess it could, it's just that I never put DC voltage that close to AC voltage inside a panel normally. I think I will try it this weekend and see what result I get. I built my panel for under $100, everything included, also the raintight panel. I don't use any "high tech" control boards , though. Ice Cube relays are about 7 bucks at electronic store, and they are easily replaceable. Dry contacts will last for years and years, I have a lot of experience with them. The contacts are rated for 10 amps each. Can replace ice cube relays in about 5 seconds!This type of panel building is pretty common place in industrial applications. In fact, most of my friends would laugh at me if I told them I built a "high tech" panel and used only two relays. I would help someone build this panel, I just wouldn't sell or market it. I basically got frustrated in trying to find the best cam in both worlds, so I went into panel building mode. I also built my own "bullet proof" camera housings out of stainless steel, but that's for another forum!

[rory 0]

Which would be DC? as the camera is only powered with a single 1A 24VAC plug ... would that be the relay ....

 

thanks

Rory

[Jasper 0]

I believe some type of inverter would be in order.

 

Sounds like a nice project. The ice cube tray sounds kind of funky, but I haven't see the whole thing so can't really say. Your previous experience in builiding panels and electronics background I imagine is a great assest in this business.

 

Love to see a diagram or schematic of this.

[cachecreekcctv 0]

"Ice cube tray"???Where did I write that?? ICE CUBE RELAY!!! You're killin' me!! Look in a typical Grainger catalog, or look at the Radio Shack website, something, to see what I am talking about. I guess since I have used thousands of them in my life, I take it that everyone understands what an "ice cube relay" is. That is what is used most in industrial applications. An "ice cube" is a clear relay, so you can see the contacts and what position they are in. In a dual throw relay, there are contacts which are normally "on" when the relay has no power to the coil. Then, there are contacts which make, after the relay has power to its' coil. Relays like this are used all over in industry, as they cannot be in both positions at the same time, which would be a bad thing for whatever machine you are trying to fire up. On an 11 pin relay, there are two contacts for the relay coil, whatever voltage you are using, and there are 9 pins left. Three that move, three that are normally closed, and three that are normally open but close when the relay get power to its' coil. These "ice cube RELAYS" plug in, and plug out, couldn't get more simple. The base has a matching wire termination points and matching pin receivers for the relay. Everything I made in my photocell controlled panel can be replaced within SECONDS. Somehow, you still need to make 24vac, and somewhere there has to be a transformer. 24vac is super common in residential. Your doorbell probably uses it, Your lawn sprinklers use it. Very safe voltage. You wouldn't want to work on 120vac lawn sprinklers valves, would you? Not me. Look around your house, in a closet somewhere, there is a transformer that transforms 120vac to 24vac for your doorbell, so people aren't killed when they ring your doorbell in the rain. Your thermostat control for your home furnace uses 24vac and should have a transformer somewhere at the furnace. In my photocell panel, I need 120vac for three things; #1the photocell itself,#2 the coil to fire the relays,#3 the transformer to go from 120vac to 24vac for the cameras. Somehow, I still have to make 24vac for the cameras, so may as well put the transformer in the same panel, and use a 120vac coil "ice cube relay", and may as well use a 120vac photocell. I will try to write a decent wiring diagram and post it when I get the chance.

[Jasper 0]

 

Hey. I had just woke up from my nap.

 

I'll review what you just said again, before I kill you anymore.

[Jasper 0]

OK. After rereading everything I understand the principle, but it sounds like the size of the components alone would make for a pretty good size panel.

 

Definately would like to see some photos of this when you get a chance.

[cachecreekcctv 0]

Actually, this design is about as simple as you can get !! My panel is 12"X 12"" and I have TONS of room left inside panel. I can actually add a circuit for 12vdc (which I am going to try this weekend). I could have used a lot smaller panel, but just had this one lying around. You can go to Home Depot and get a simple panel for this design for about $20. Photocell @ Home Depot- $6. Ice cube relays about $7 each. Right now, I have two "three pole, dual throw" Ice cube relays inside. This would power up to12 cameras, 6 b/w and 6 color. Assuming around 5 watts per camera or so, use a 120/24 transformer with at least 150va. There would never be more than 6 camera on at any time, so probably would never use more than 30-50 watts. I found an old 12vdc power supply board and will try to add this to my design tonight. Remember one thing, I just don't have the fancy control boards that show up on some "factory made " panels like this. I count on photocell to make the decision, and so does every streetlight in America!! Of course things fail, but my 6 dollar photocell has almost a year on it. When it "fails", my color cams will still work, it just wouldn't switch to b/w until I get a new photocell. But then again, I take a 6 inch piece of jumper wire and make them work for the night. I didn't invent this, believe me, as this is probably the simplest panel I have ever built. Let me figure out how to post wiring diagram, and all you out there can build this for yourself!!

[cachecreekcctv 0]

One thing I never thought of , yet, is to mount the 12vdc inside my "photocell panel" to turn on my infrared lights (the ones I am testing are 12vdc). In looking at the Extreme panel further, I believe they are using control boards inside their panel to control amount of IR light on their cameras. Much like using a "dimmer" on your home lighting. Actually , just a rheostat inline with power. If I put 12vdc in my panel, I might have to add a small fan to help keep it cool. So far, I have not had to do that. If I put a fan inside, I will have to add a vent also, but have had to do that before. I would punch a 1/2" hole in the bottom somewhere, install Myers hub, and thread in a 1/2" bronze air vent from a pneumatic system. This keeps critters out, but allows air to move inside panel, being as it is outdoors. Lets see if I can point anyone to the Grainger catalog, for use as a reference in this panel. Relay, Grainger part no. 2W929 (only 8 pin).Photocell, Grainger part no. 6P007. I don't normally buy parts at Rat Shack unless I have to. Remember, Grainger is just for reference. They supply a lot of industry. Heck, maybe someone could buy this stuff at Wally World!! I think if someone were "stumped" on this panel, that it would be a great project for a local high school student electrical classroom to design and build. Buy the parts for them, and give them a reward for designing it!! You might be helping the next CCTV generation make a career move!

[rory 0]

id like to know how ... could be something to market down here ..

[cachecreekcctv 0]

I will try to print the wiring diagram out tomorrow, then scan it, and try to post it here. I am in the process of building another panel for a vacation home I am building, but this panel is Stainless Steel. No, I couldn't afford to buy it new, but found it a local garage sale. Grandpa died, Grandma sold everything. Grandma wasn't allowed in garage while Grandpa was working on projects, so all "projects" got sold for $10 each. Bought a few of them. The main reason I started this , was that I love my color JVC cameras. Of all the color cameras I tried in the last few years, couldn't beat my JVC. Only thing that beat my JVC color camera was "nightime". Went out and bought Pelco b/w for nightime. Added IR. Reminded me of the old "Reeses " candy ads. Remember?.. Chocolate..Peanut Butter. How can you get them both together??? Then one day, accidently,my neighbor said " too bad you can't make one work only in the day, and one work only at night. " I hate to be challenged like that. Lets see...make things simple....no control boards....inexpensive parts.....hey, what did I do for a living for over 20 years? I built and installed industrial electrical panels. I figured that if I could build 3 phase 480vac panels, I could surely build a simple panel to control 24vac cameras . Sat down and wrote a simple wiring diagram of what I wanted. Wired it up and made it work. Can't patent something that simple. Just wanted to make sure it worked "realtime", so mounted it and have had it working for, guessing, around 10 months. As soon as I can figure out how to post the wiring diagram, I will. After I do, I hope everyone who wants one will go out and build one. Maybe someone will come up with something to make it better, and share that with all of us. If someone will let me know how to post pictures, etc. in this forum, that would help me.

[rory 0]

Cool, yeah you can email me it and ill host it, or upload it to http://www.ihostphotos.com/

[CSG 0]

I was wondering how you switch the coax feed from the BW cam to the color cam, through the relay?

[surf1div1 0]

What have I gotten into?....I have to laugh- I'm completely lost, but thought I would respond so that between the two of you I make sense if this. It appears that cost of the best day-night camera would still not yeild the best of two seperate cameras- one color, the other b/w. So, the solution appears to be to mount seperate cam's and this is where the two of you lost me- one voltage is 12 and the other is 24, and then's theirs the design issue of dissapating the heat without allowing "critters" in.) I have to tell you, while I'm lost, I can't help feeling intrigued by the idea of something good coming out of it where the sum of the individual elements get's much more then the individual pieces together- cheap components that would yeild better performance then a high-end day/night. Is this correct? Thus my question about the Pano cam. In any case, I would love to stay with a great bullet that is small (remember, I want the stealth factor) and great results without it becoming to costly. Now, while this has probably transitioned beyond the DIY aspect I thought I would tackel, I'm game , if you guys get somewhere with this design, and the application working I would love to see if in fact it works as planned.

 

Arnold

 

Cool, yeah you can email me it and ill host it, or upload it to http://www.ihostphotos.com/

[rory 0]

hey

 

Both cameras can be 12VDC or 24VAC actually .. such as in the Extreme CCTV example .. we're just looking for a cheap alternative to the EX82 even if it doesnt have IR . like 1 color bullet and 1 BW Exview bullet, perhaps in a small housing ...

 

Guys, what about a switcher that recieves an alarm input, which the alarm input could come from a photocell, or timer .. are there photocells that that have 2 outputs, one for when it is off, and one when it is on ..?

 

Anyway .. back to the original post .. any more questions ..?

[Jasper 0]

Well I don’t know what DVR you intended to use, but if it was a Geovision or other card capable of scheduling then you could just use one input for the color camera and another one for the Black and white. That way you don’t need a 12x12â€

[rory 0]

yeah but then its swiching max every 10 secs..

[Jasper 0]

yeah but then its swiching max every 10 secs..

 

Huh? What do you mean?

[rory 0]

you want it to switch either on a timer, or from a relay/contact..

[Jasper 0]

I wasn’t talking about the project. We will have to see how that pans out. Sounds like a good project to try though.

A photo cell would be best for the project.

 

I am saying that for example camera 1 is a color cam and is scheduled to record from 6:30am-5:30pm.

Camera 2 is the BW camera. It is scheduled to record from 5:30pm until 6:30am the next morning. You need to use 2 inputs of your DVR, but with the scheduling function it works and gives you the same effect of a Day/Night Camera. Except there is no sensor, so if the light goes low when the color camera is on, well then you just can’t see very well or at all depending on how low the light gets.

 

That is where the Day/Night camera has its advantage because it can sense the lighting situation and switchover if it need too.

[Jasper 0]

Arnold,

 

I don’t think that Panasonic dome camera would work out for you because it can only see down to 0.1 lux, which is not good. Something that is .06 lux or lower is better for viewing in dim light, such as a street light right across the street from your house. If very little light the lower the lux the better. Many places quote like .003 or .0003, which Is more likely foot candles (fc) then lux, so watch out for that.

 

I had a similar situation like yours some years back and the person knew where the camera was. I had a camera watching the front of my house a half of my van parked in my driveway. The person came to my house at night and stayed out of view of the camera. So my recording only showed my van slowly tilting to one side as both the tires on that side got slashed.

 

And then the next morning when I went outside I saw the whole side was also slashed with a knife. So if you are really want to try and catch this person make sure the camera(s) are small and you don’t tell anyone about them. Otherwise they will just avoid being seen on camera. My girlfriend at the time had told her ex-boyfriend where it was located so that is how I lost my element of covertness.

[cachecreekcctv 0]

My coax feed goes straight back to my DVR. I originally had it going through a Pelco Multiplexer, 16 channel, that I bought used. I took that one signal from the multiplexer and had it go into just one channel of the DVR (for one month , for testing purposes) Since I wasn't home all the time, I wanted something to verify when the cameras switched from one mode to the other via the photocell. There is no data/signals going through my home made photocell panel, only 120vac and 24vac. What I did on my DVR is to use the BNC "T" adapters. Two cameras feed into each incoming port, one b/w and one color. Since the power goes through the relay system, only one can be powered up at any time. I had to quiet down the DVR "loss of signal siren" , as when the cameras switch over to b/w mode, the DVR , for a few seconds, loses , and then regains the incoming camera feed signal. Been pretty busy lately, had to work all weekend, so will get that schematic done ASAP. Like I stated before, the reason for all this , and I didn't know someone made a panel for this, was that I just couldn't get the best of both worlds in cameras. My cameras that have the Sony Exview in them are outstanding at night, especially with the IR. But watching my front door in the daytime, I just couldn't beat my JVC color.

[rory 0]

Who makes a board like this ..?

[surf1div1 0]

Hi Jasper-

What I would probably go with is the Setup that Thomas does for a PC based system (possibly Thomas would comment on that aspect as far as using different input's) but aside from that, I would prefer as I originally stated, a camera that will allow me to use it both day/night. You've brought up using a more sensitive lens to compensate for the nighttime vision. My goal is to have on the one camera that is monitoring the van across the street about a 70 FOV and ID whoever vandalizes it. Without IR . I could use (see pictures of the house) higher wattage light bulb in the motion detector light, and change the range of the motion detector to go on when somebody comes by it, but the problem is that this particular street that I'm on has quite a bit of traffic going through our neighborhood so that light would come on every t time a car comes by. That would be a compromise though to using IR all the time or some high-end cam that breaks the bank. Of all the cameras, this one would be the only expensive one needed (because of the fov) and the rest are just monitoring the immediate perimeter of the house (front FOV on the East side of the house to about 30') and the backyard has a motion detector light already and only needs about 20'. Entry to the house where I want to put the other has another motion detector light, which will cover the IR needs as well. So far, the Pano Day/Night is the only suggestion I've heard (with that Covi- from the same source who is no longer on this list but was pretty respected here) and wanted some additional product to ponder and research. I know that this is pretty academic on some ways, but once I narrow down the product I can go about procurement and installment. Thanks again to all of you-

Well I don’t know what DVR you intended to use, but if it was a Geovision or other card capable of scheduling then you could just use one input for the color camera and another one for the Black and white. That way you don’t need a 12x12â€

[surf1div1 0]

Thanks Jasper- I see what you mean-

I wasn't aware of the that cam's rating. I was under the impression that this cam had the ability based on the specs. I'm a little confused though by your post as a result of possibly some misunderstanding on my part- I thought that o.05 was excellent and was described as being nearly pitch black. Thus the acceptance of this cam- I would rather have this kind of discussion though as I would hate to get the wrong product. The street lights on my block(the two closest) are far enough to only offer limited lighting (enought to barely cast a showdow of me on the street. I'm not telling anyone about the cams (as opposed to most that would probably state how this out there to discourage them from doing it in the firstflace) but know that the types of people that would vandalize someone are ones that would do as your situation shows- just do in a way to avoid being seen. Thus the search for a cam that will see them witha 70 FOV and small enough to be covert- currently it doesn't appear that there's anything made that does both without IR. As I stated in my recent post though- I would possibly just change the setting on my motion activated light to come on (at night since it's photocell activated like most) when movment is detected. The rub is that it would come on whenever a car comes by as opposed to someone coming by. BTW, as the intelligent software come out that is able to make the distinction of one from the other? I guess that is for another thread though.

 

Arnold

 

 

Arnold,

 

I don’t think that Panasonic dome camera would work out for you because it can only see down to 0.1 lux, which is not good. Something that is .06 lux or lower is better for viewing in dim light, such as a street light right across the street from your house. If very little light the lower the lux the better. Many places quote like .003 or .0003, which Is more likely foot candles (fc) then lux, so watch out for that.

 

I had a similar situation like yours some years back and the person knew where the camera was. I had a camera watching the front of my house a half of my van parked in my driveway. The person came to my house at night and stayed out of view of the camera. So my recording only showed my van slowly tilting to one side as both the tires on that side got slashed.

 

And then the next morning when I went outside I saw the whole side was also slashed with a knife. So if you are really want to try and catch this person make sure the camera(s) are small and you don’t tell anyone about them. Otherwise they will just avoid being seen on camera. My girlfriend at the time had told her ex-boyfriend where it was located so that is how I lost my element of covertness.