Need advice on new system

[TXGold 0]

I don't know much, and I apologize, but I don't have as much time as I would like to research this all. I have been using a company that I trusted and still do, and respect, but the money I spent and what I got is disappointing. I received a SOLO 16ch and all the cameras installed and support, but I spent $6000 getting there. I feel like it was a lot of money and, I did not get a decent warranty with that. I have lost 2 of 3 DVR's inside 3 years. I am being told be this company that the Costco packages for NVR's are junk, but with Costco's warranty and the failure rate of the SOLO I am willing to take a gamble, except the idea of putting together a T20 system that was suggest on the residential forum here. My biggest problem is this is for one of my business locations and need a system sooner than later as the loaner is not available for long.

 

Option A: I am considering purchasing a new Dell T20 with xeon and I need a recommendation for an ip switch and software that allows third party cameras and is easily configured or uses OSX.

 

Option B: I am considering going with a turn key lorex NVR system from Costco. My first question on this system is what is the estimated storage time, with motion set at non-business hours and continuos for a 9 hour work day? I'd also like to know what terminology to look for to find out if adding additional HDD's is possible, and if it is typically possible, is there a way to add a bank of 4 or 5 2tb HDD's or are they typically configured to just offer one add on slot? Which again brings me back to how to estimate or if someone here could guess, how much storage in terms of weeks will approximately 3.5tb's of useable space and a 10 camera 2mp system attain.

 

If I go with option A, any suggestions for a software that is very easy to install on the mentioned Dell mini tower server. That software needs to be compatible with Mac OSX as that's all I use, and I don't want to use parallels or whatever the program is called that allows running Windows simultaneously. Also a good durable IP with PoE switch for between 12 and 16 channels. It would be nice if the suggested software has a plug and play friendliness that allows simple plugging the switch into the tower and then plugging IP cameras with PoE and detecting and configuring automatically.

 

This is a long post, and I realize I am being what may be considered lazy. I am new here except for lurking a few times once a year for a few years, but I am not sure what the tolerance for posts like this is, and if it's low I do apologize and will not do so again.

 

Thank you,

TXGold

[drocer 0]

http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/security-nvr-storage-calculator

 

3.5TB? Too many variables. Input above. Best guess is a week but could be less based on after hours motion record.

 

For A:

What's with the xeon CPU? Sounds like this is just going to be a dedicated NVR only. i7 will do unless this will be doing other things like being a local server, etc.

 

$1K-1.5K for tower + extra hard drives (dell outlet biz - 3 year warranty)

$2K for 10 3MP swann/hikvision cameras (18 months warranty or lifetime through costco)

$300-$500 unmanaged, non-crap PoE switch (cisco=lifetime warranty)

 

Software is either free Hikvision iVMS (really good) or pay for Xprotect ($600+ for 10 cameras). Axxon is great but unknown cost. Avigilon = lol

 

For B:

This is what you want if you want plug and play idiot proof surveillance. Just be aware that it will have limitations and if say the built in PoE switch dies, you're going to have to be without an NVR as you sent it in for service. If you went the PC option and Dell Biz, you would have 3yr (or longer if you buy) next day on site service or you could do it yourself.

[TXGold 0]

The server I am looking at is a Dell T20 and is listed for around $550 on their website here.

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-t20/fs

Not much money, and I know it's only a 1tb HDD but can't I just throw in a HDD when I can afford it until I max out all the slot's? I believe this tower has 6 slots, so easily could get it up to 14-18TB for around $700-900. This should be plenty of space for a 10 camera system.

 

Do the swan/hikivision cameras have hardware based motion detection? I keep reading here that if cameras don't have this feature, it will be taxing on the cpu, which might not matter since the Xeon is so powerful.

 

Additionally, if the cost of a camera with motion detection is much greater than getting a fast enough processor, isn't the wise choice not to worry about camera based motion detection?

Does the hikvision iVMS support mac osx software, or at least will I be able to manage a decent amount of features remotely with a browser like safari or firefox for OSX? The only computers I have are Apple.

 

Will I need to order an operating system with the purchase of the server? I currently have a copy of Windows 7 64bit but the disk is really scratched and not sure I have the license key. I would prefer to not have to use Windows or Linux OS.

 

Does the Hikvision iVMS just load on the server with a flash drive and then reboot and it will initiate?

 

Does iVMS offer video analytics of any kind? I'd really like to one day be able to have the system count cars at my business and store them for comparing to my POS. Or do I need to get one special camera for this and connect it to iVMS?

 

So any unmanaged good quality switch with POE will work with this T20? I saw some trendnet's for around $300 that had 16ports. Is there any special feature I need to check to insure it will work as far as switches go?

 

As for playback, I like to be able to fast forward and count cars, and compare them to my POS system to check for theft. Will iVMS playback allow searching at high speed of multiple cameras?

 

With the T20 system and iVMS will I be able to record 10 channels at 15PS or greater at full resolution(D1?) ??

 

Thanks so much, and I am leaning towards option A and making this part of my many jobs at my business instead of relying on a vendor to service, which is usually about $150 for a simple car and about $350 to add a camera, or move two cameras. Some really good support comes with that, but the costs is very frustrating and if I didn't think I was going to get a $100+ ding every time I wanted something checked I probably would have been more apt to call to have someone come out and check on the SOLO while it was inside warranty. Live and learn, but I don't think there is not much more I could have done to be proactive about warranty.

[drocer 0]

The only thing that kills CPU's and eats memory is software motion recording and multi camera playback/viewing (play/view all cameras back @ full resolution all at once). If you have hardware motion record on the camera, you don't need the xeon. I7 will do.

 

You need hardware motion record on camera (hikvision/swann/lorex, dahua, act, etc)

+

Software that supports on camera hardware motion record.

 

I have 8 1080p(2.1MP) hikvision/swann bullets + ivms-4200 running on an i7-3770. Takes 3% and I still have 2GB out of 4GB RAM unused. The only thing that kills the machine is playing back all eight cameras at once @ 2.1/3MP resolution (40-80% load). Xprotect, axxon, and most likely exacq too will give the same results.

 

Counting cars/people/etc + POS = $$$$ = paid milstone xprotect or paid axxon next or paid exacqvision.

 

Unknown about about OSX. These all run on windows. Linux and OSX are fourth and 56th in line for being supported i.e. next to none.

 

Unmanaged PoE switches are more idiot-proof in that you just plug and play. The higher end ones may only be managed. Power budget/number of ports = >10W just to play it safe. Cheap PoE switches can be <7W/port.

 

__________

 

Considering you hate windows/linux, the amount of questions you have, and the shortened timeframe you want this done, I would just get a NVR package from costco.

 

http://www.costco.com/Lorex-16-Channel-Stratus-HD-NVR-Security-System-with-3TB-HDD-and-9-1080p-Cameras.product.100087430.html

[TXGold 0]

Buellwinkle from the forum has been a HUGE help via email, and I also thank those that have helped here, it is all very much appreciated.

 

I am leaning towards xGuard Essential for my VMS. However, I would really like some suggestions that are GOOD and free/cheaper and work with OSX or at least allow remote viewing through OSX, and hopefully some level of management.

 

Also any specific model cameras that are a good bargain please give suggestions. Three will be inside with one looking over the register about 5 feet above. One will be a big overview so, this may need to be high MP huh? And the third will be motion only and for an area I will most likely know who it is so nothing fancy here probably. The other cameras outside will be watching guys wash and dry cars and drive them. One of these will need to be high MP with dynamic range for sun that can see details of a car from up about 9 feet and between 3 and 23 feet away from the cars.

 

I need suggestions for an indoor high MP for monitoring a large waiting area, wide angle.

 

I also need suggestions for an outdoor high MP that will be able to possibly see small dings or scratches on cars as they drive up, and one for the finishing are.

 

All others will not be as important so a good general camera with onboard motion detect.

 

Finally I need suggestions for an unmanaged switch of good quality that has at least 10 POE ports. I am hoping to only spend about $250 here but don't want something so cheap I'll have to replace it soon or that will bottleneck the bandwidth.

 

I have purchased a Dell T20 Xeon Server and Windows Home Server 2011 as my computer.

 

Thank you again, so much, for all the kind help. What a great forum and group of people.

 

TXGold

[buellwinkle 0]

The problem with 10 PoE port switch is that I've gone through this, I wanted a 16 port PoE switch with 16 actual PoE ports and I'm beginning to think it's a unicorn. I can get several switches with 8 PoE ports, and I can get several with 24 PoE ports, but where's the in-between. Maybe I missed something so let me know if you find it. You can get two 8 PoE port switches with gigabit uplinks and feed them into a Gigabit switch which is what I do, but works out as I have one at the back of the house, one in front so I save on wiring effort.

 

Make sure that with that many cameras, the switch is either Gigabit or has a Gigabit uplink port.

[shockwave199 0]

This seems pricey but...

http://www.securitycameraking.com/16-port-poe-switch-with-59313-prd1.html?disableMobileView=1

[SunnyKim 2]

If you run more than 4 HD IP cameras of (HD1080P X 30FPS), even Xeon may not be able to decode all 4 channels and displaying 4 videos in real time. You can observe Lags, Frame Drops, Hangups, even though those software solution providers claim they are so good. We do develop ours that's why I know.

[TXGold 0]

I am rethinking my amount of cameras. Many angles from my current system are needed because the quality of the video is so inferior. A wide angle lens takes away so much detail on a 720TVL camera. If I go with a 3MP camera, the same viewing angle can be moved slightly and widened to obtain a much larger area, and still have the same if not more detail of previous cameras, I imagine. In addition, cameras that aren't washed or blown out because of sun light differences within a cameras filed of view, because of WDR(wide dynamic range), makes even more of a reason to consider that less channels will be required. Is this a fair assessment of the difference of an IP system verse a SOLO 16 channel?

 

With that said, if I go with an 8 POE switch and do away with camera positions that did little to help us to begin with(i.e. multiple waiting area positions) the higher resolution and wider dynamic range cameras will offer the same and more than likely much more helpful surveillance than previous system.

 

So again, please suggest some good quality 8 PoE port switches that are simple, reliably, and won't bottle neck.

 

Additionally I need some recommendations for a bullet 3mp with WDR, and motion detect on board, with or without mikes. Also I will need recs for a dome camera 4' over the register with mic and motion detect and with or without WDR. And finally a rec for a dome camera with wide angle, 3MP, with mic, WDR, and motion detect for inside waiting area.

 

After walking around the site, I realize I could more than likely get away with 6 total cameras and be safe, adding more in time or as the need arises.

[buellwinkle 0]

Bang for the buck, I like the ZyXel es2108pwr, 8 PoE ports + 1 gigabit uplink, run about $275ish. Also, I use a Cisco 8 PoE port switch that's all gigabit but it's not as reliable as the ZyXel, it's more expensive for sure at about $400 and with 8 gigabit ports, I end up using one for the uplink, so to me it supports 7 cameras. We also use the Netgear Prosafe PoE switch, but may also be pricier, don't remember what we paid for it. These above are full 15.4w PoE power on each port.

 

Be wary of cheaper PoE switches that say 15.4w power, but have an aggregate max, like 8 ports, but 60W total, then you plug in 8 cameras and not all work. Or switches with don't have a gigabit uplink or all gigabit.

 

Cameras with mic's are tough. The Axis P33 series outdoor domes have a built in mics and so do some Mobotix. Indoors, if you can get away with a cube style camera, most brands have mic/speaker built in. Hikvision has mic input (most brands have line-in that requires 12v to power an amplified mic).

[drocer 0]

The problem with 10 PoE port switch is that I've gone through this, I wanted a 16 port PoE switch with 16 actual PoE ports and I'm beginning to think it's a unicorn. I can get several switches with 8 PoE ports, and I can get several with 24 PoE ports, but where's the in-between. Maybe I missed something so let me know if you find it. You can get two 8 PoE port switches with gigabit uplinks and feed them into a Gigabit switch which is what I do, but works out as I have one at the back of the house, one in front so I save on wiring effort.

 

Make sure that with that many cameras, the switch is either Gigabit or has a Gigabit uplink port.

 

I take it you mean 16 port gigabit or gigabit uplink switch. You would have to use one port as uplink:

 

http://www.trendnet.com/products/proddetail.asp?prod=195_TPE-1620WS#tabs-solution02

 

185/15=12.3W

 

Plenty to power 5W bullets.

[drocer 0]

Buellwinkle from the forum has been a HUGE help via email, and I also thank those that have helped here, it is all very much appreciated.

 

I am leaning towards xGuard Essential for my VMS. However, I would really like some suggestions that are GOOD and free/cheaper and work with OSX or at least allow remote viewing through OSX, and hopefully some level of management.

...

I have purchased a Dell T20 Xeon Server and Windows Home Server 2011 as my computer.

 

OSX support is not going to happen. You'll get some kind of tablet/client/hacked together solution but not a 100% OSX one. If you really want OSX, get a NAS + camera licenses.

 

...and you bought the Xeon. That's still going to bog down if you view or playback all cameras at the same time. Unless you're running ftp/web/AD/etc also, home server is a waste IMHO.

[TXGold 0]

Buellwinkle from the forum has been a HUGE help via email, and I also thank those that have helped here, it is all very much appreciated.

 

I am leaning towards xGuard Essential for my VMS. However, I would really like some suggestions that are GOOD and free/cheaper and work with OSX or at least allow remote viewing through OSX, and hopefully some level of management.

...

I have purchased a Dell T20 Xeon Server and Windows Home Server 2011 as my computer.

 

OSX support is not going to happen. You'll get some kind of tablet/client/hacked together solution but not a 100% OSX one. If you really want OSX, get a NAS + camera licenses.

 

...and you bought the Xeon. That's still going to bog down if you view or playback all cameras at the same time. Unless you're running ftp/web/AD/etc also, home server is a waste IMHO.

What's an NAS?

I did buy the Xeon t20 server and will be using home server 2011. Won't xguard reduce camera resolution when playing back all channels at same time since it wouldn't be necessary to have full resolution when the size of picture will be much smaller? Ten if I want full resolution I click on a camera channel and the others go away and then I have full resolution???

Just trying to see how it all works. I am coming from a total POS a paid a lot for and have to totally replace.

[buellwinkle 0]

How is Home Server 2011 a waste, cost $50, how much is Win 8 Pro, I think more than Home Server. If I see one more "metro app" pop up on my PC I'm going to scream.

 

Good find on the Trendnet 16 port PoE switch.

[drocer 0]

Buellwinkle from the forum has been a HUGE help via email, and I also thank those that have helped here, it is all very much appreciated.

 

I am leaning towards xGuard Essential for my VMS. However, I would really like some suggestions that are GOOD and free/cheaper and work with OSX or at least allow remote viewing through OSX, and hopefully some level of management.

...

I have purchased a Dell T20 Xeon Server and Windows Home Server 2011 as my computer.

 

OSX support is not going to happen. You'll get some kind of tablet/client/hacked together solution but not a 100% OSX one. If you really want OSX, get a NAS + camera licenses.

 

...and you bought the Xeon. That's still going to bog down if you view or playback all cameras at the same time. Unless you're running ftp/web/AD/etc also, home server is a waste IMHO.

What's an NAS?

I did buy the Xeon t20 server and will be using home server 2011. Won't xguard reduce camera resolution when playing back all channels at same time since it wouldn't be necessary to have full resolution when the size of picture will be much smaller? Ten if I want full resolution I click on a camera channel and the others go away and then I have full resolution???

Just trying to see how it all works. I am coming from a total POS a paid a lot for and have to totally replace.

 

http://www.synology.com/en-us/

 

I assume you mean Xprotect.

 

"Live view" - shows substreams. Double clicking/enlarging will get you the full resolution. Doing it again, will drop back to substream. Little to no CPU used for substream viewing.

 

Playback - plays what is recorded. If you didn't record the substream also, it only has the full resolution to use. Playing back 10 2.1/3MP resolution videos at once is going to kill just about any x86 CPU--the xeon included. That's like trying to playback 10 bluray movies at once. The xeon might do 1 more than an i7 but it won't be all 10 at the same time.

 

Even syncronized playback is hit or miss for me i.e. video starts when motion is triggered. 1-5 cameras going was fine, but if all tripped the machine would begin to stutter. Syncronized playback was a great idea but became worthless in practice as I could only playback 1-4 cameras at a time only.

[TXGold 0]

I was able to get the T20 running today once I entered safe mode and installed these two update packages.

 

Network drivers:

http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/04/DriverDetails?driverId=DGHKG

 

Chipset:

http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/04/DriverDetails?driverId=TTVVT

 

WHS11 is not a supported OS but after 2.5 hours on the phone, and only 120 seconds of help from Beullwinkle I was up and running. Thanks again Buellwinkle, very much, for all the help. Here is what I ended up with

 

Dell T20 with Xeon $560

8PoE switch Fry's $170

Cable 1000'&RJ45's $140

HikChina 2732 $260 from Wrightwood Surviellance

HikUSA 2032 $180 x 3 "

ACTi E96 Fisheye $270 on special "

XProtect Essential $100 plus two camera licenses

XProtect Ess Cam Lic $50 x 2

SSD for OS & VMS $60

One old 2TB HDD laying around for a total 3tb's

 

Grand total so far is $2200. I was told to replace the POS Solo DVR it was going to be $1200 plus labor.

Wish I had thought about this earlier before dropping over $4000 on my second location for a total POS system with no clarity. I know I need to add more TB's of storage, but doing it my self has saved me a lot of money and left me with a system that is very upgradeable and repairable, and light years better. Special thanks to everyone here that has helped me and especially to Wrightwood Surviellance and to Buellwinkle for the very kind help.

 

If anyone knows how to add an extra SATA cable and power so I don't take up one of the four the T20 came with, please tell me. I currently only have one open port. Also any tips on setting up and configuring the XProtect software would be very much appreciated.

[drocer 0]

Thanks again Buellwinkle, very much, for all the help. Here is what I ended up with

Wrightwood Surviellance and to Buellwinkle for the very kind help.

 

If anyone knows how to add an extra SATA cable and power so I don't take up one of the four the T20 came with, please tell me. I currently only have one open port. Also any tips on setting up and configuring the XProtect software would be very much appreciated.

 

Try contacting the people who sold you the products. They need to provide the support.

[MaxIcon 0]

If anyone knows how to add an extra SATA cable and power so I don't take up one of the four the T20 came with, please tell me. I currently only have one open port. Also

If it's got an optical drive, I'd disconnect that and re-use the port. I use an external DVD recorder for all my NVRs on the rare occasion I need one, which has the benefit of reducing power consumption.

 

Otherwise, you can get add-on SATA cards:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=sata+controller&N=-1&isNodeId=1