Individual IP cameras VS. cameras connected to DVRs?

[stanw 0]

I currently use a Dropcam as a pet monitor and am very happy with the quality of it when watching it over my network and when viewing it over the internet from remote locations. However, the cost of the monthly plan (which I am not currently paying for) will add up when adding more cameras, though I really liked being able to view archived footage from any location by logging into the cloud. I am not using the cam for security, so I am not worried about someone taking a camera that may have built in SD recording. I want to add more cams to be used as baby monitors.

 

I just purchased a new Samsung SmartCam HD Cam with the ability to record directly to the internal SD card. I have not yet tried it out http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SmartCam-1080p-Full-HD-Camera/dp/B00J38NVHE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1398906000&sr=1-1&keywords=samsung+smartcam+hd

 

This has had me thinking, I want to have multiple cameras in my home, going with Dropcam will get expensive with multiple cams. Perhaps the Samsung cam will work for me, though what about some of the packages that come with 4-5 cams connected to a DVR? I've seen some of these packages at Costco for 4 cameras and a DVR for $800-900, so far both the Dropcam and Samsung cam were $200 each.

 

1. Is there a reason to go with individual cams like the Samsung or Dropcam vs. one of these packages like the Lorex, etc. with 4-5 cams and a DVR?

 

2. Can someone recommend a package with a DVR, HD recording (as good or better then the Dropcam), apps for iOS, Android, etc. ability to view in a browser, nightvision, wide angle, motion alerts.

 

Thanks in advance!

[pcmcg 0]

If your looking for a package deal, I would go for an NVR with IP cams. Costco has a good selection, or online there is securitycameraking, nellys, wrightwood, etc ..

[stanw 0]

Do the cams in these packages need to be wired to ethernet to record to the DVR or are they also wireless IP cams?

 

Thanks.

[buellwinkle 0]

It's always best to hardwire cameras because as you add more and more 1080P or higher cameras, you are putting stress on your WiFi network. Also, WiFi means the connections is wireless, but you still clearly need an AC adapter to power it. This becomes more difficult outdoors where there are less power outlets and may not be convenient and who wants to see wires everywhere, hence PoE cameras that are powered and connected via a typical Ethernet cable.

 

But here's what you can get. There are very good WiFi cameras called cube cameras. They are indoor only and look like your Dropcam. The best out there and what I use are the Axis M10 series, AVTech AVN813 and the Hikvision ds-2cd2432f-iw. The best being the Hikvision because it's day/night, has a good IR illuminator, comes in different lens sizes, has 2-way audio, PIR motion detection and is 3MP (3x what your Dropcam is in resolution). The advantage of the AVTech is their Push Notification that alerts you near instantly if there's motion detected. Both the Hikvision and AVTech can record and playback on an SD card. When you see that these cameras are in the same price range as Dropcam but way better image, more features and no monthly fees, you'll see it's a bargain

 

Outdoors if you ever go that route has many good choices, the best deal out there is the Hikvision ds-2cd2032-i or Dahua ipc-hfw4300s, again comes in various lens sizes, 3MP, easy to install but not WiFi, it's PoE. If you want a dome and want more feature like SD card recording and audio, varifocal lens (manual zoom) the Hikvision ds-2cd2732f-is is the ticket, I use them in commercial installs.

 

Then the question is NVR, yes or no. Since you are not concerned about recording, the NVR does not add any value. You can connect to any IP camera on the internet using free to very low cost apps for IOS or Android and certainly for free using a PC or Mac browser. You just need to setup port forwarding for each camera and is not that hard to do.

 

The future is more and more camera brands are starting to embrace the Dropcam concept, at least the live view aspect of easily accessing the camera from say a smartphone without any port forwarding. The latest to enter this is Dahua. They are starting with their NVRs but they said in a few months, their cameras will have this feature. Basically you use their smartphone app to scan a QR code displayed by the camera when you are home, that links permanently to your phone, no port forwarding, no typing in IP addresses or ddns, easy peasy.

[stanw 0]

I am interested in recording, I’m just not doing it for security reasons and I’m also not concerned about someone stealing the DVR or SD card, so I do not need cloud recording. I view the recordings of my pet for fun and will do the same thing with my baby.

 

1.) When you say “It's always best to hardwire cameras” you mean running ethernet directly to the cameras and also running ethernet from the cameras to the DVR?

 

2.) How do I determine how many IP cameras I can setup before it becomes a problem with the speed/performance of my network?

 

3.) You mentioned that the AVTech has “3MP (3x what your Dropcam is in resolution).

 

I’m not sure what the resolution of my Dropcam is. I think it shoots 720P, how are you determining it is 3X the resolution of the Dropcam? What does 3MP actually mean, I know for digital photography it is low, though I am not clear on what it means for IP cams.

 

Thanks!

[spork947 0]

The dropcam pro is capable of 1080p but last I heard they are still tweaking the compression and such to make sure its optimized for remote access. It should be ready soon. Also take note that the actual video on them is encrypted which takes more bandwidth but I'm fine with that. The hikvision 2432 is capable of 2048×1536. I used them side by side and its no doubt the better looking camera and has a lot of the features already built in that are commonly requestsed from dropcam.

 

That being said I found the dropcam more likable and secure for remote access in just about every way. I was using the hikvision 2432 with xprotect. Their mobile app has no audio support (yet). The apps from hikvision didn't seem to work well either. I also found the dropcam to be a lot smoother. While the quality may not be as good its better optimized for remote access. My Wife and I can both use the dropcam without slowing the connection further since its uploaded once and amazon serves it after that. This is also handy during a power outage because you can still check footage up to that point. The audio works great but sometimes the 2 way can be a little funky ... but works. We use ours for a pet monitor as well. We have to crate one of our dogs and if she starts trying to chew it etc saying something through the dropcam usually distracts her.

 

If your not using xprotect its good to stay with a certain brand of cameras so you can use their nvr software or dedicated box should you choose. This advice was given to me here and I should have listened since I was using multiple brands for a while. I'm using acti nvr for my outdoor cams at the moment and dropcam indoors. Its working well for me but eventually I want to get rid of a nvr box all together if they ever release a outdoor dropcam. Its cheaper with a yearly plan and extra cams are 50% off.

 

edit: You can also use ipcam viewer to record video now. Could be handy if you just want to record when viewing the cam from your tablet or phone. I also think that eventually we will have a local recording option for dropcam. There is a thread in the feature request forum with a angry mob of users that have out the torches and pitchforks.

[buellwinkle 0]

1.) When you say “It's always best to hardwire cameras” you mean running ethernet directly to the cameras and also running ethernet from the cameras to the DVR?

 

2.) How do I determine how many IP cameras I can setup before it becomes a problem with the speed/performance of my network?

 

3.) You mentioned that the AVTech has “3MP (3x what your Dropcam is in resolution).

 

1. hardwire means running an Ethernet cable from the camera to a PoE injector or PoE switch. The single cable can power and connect the camera, no power adapter needed. When I tried WiFi HD cameras, I got choppy video, it's not really suited for it.

 

2. You can actually monitor this from Windows Task Manager, Open Resource Monitor and see what your network is doing. There's software that does this better, just offering a free option. For example, viewing 4 cameras now using Milestone client, it's reporting 3.2Mbps. At night that increases because of noise.

 

3., sorry, the Hikvision is 3MP. It's pixel resolution, just like for a digital camera, more pixels means more detail. For example, if you have a picture of someone 20' away using a wide angle lens, with 1MP, you may not have enough resolution to identify him, at 2MP (1080P) it's more realistic, at 3MP it's more likely, at 5MP it's even better. The rule of thumb in the industry is you need a person's face to be 85 pixels tall to identify them, about 45 pixels tall to recognize someone you already know. 720P = 1 million pixels or 1MP, 1080P is 2MP, 3MP has no cute name, 12MP is UltraHD (4K), I use Photoshop to measure this using the ruler tool. Don't know how to measure this otherwise but you can do it relative to the resolution, for example, if you are looking at a 720P image, that means it's 720 pixels tall, a face should be about 12% of the height of the image, if it's 1080P, then it can be 7% of the height, 3MP, about 5%.

 

What I do to minimize bandwidth is with Milestone XProtect software, you can specify that the software use the substream for live viewing. The substream is a second video feed from the camera that is much lower resolution, say 640x480 so you can live view and use much less bandwidth, but still record the main stream at full resolution.

[stanw 0]

spork947,

 

I just checked the Dropcam website and the higher end Dropcam Pro (the one I have) records H.264 720p HD
1280 x 720 at 30 frames/sec.

 

1.) What did you mean by “its uploaded once and amazon serves it after that. “ What does Amazon have to do with it?

 

2.) Its working well for me but eventually I want to get rid of a nvr box all together if they ever release a outdoor dropcam. Its cheaper with a yearly plan and extra cams are 50% off.

 

Are you saying that you would rather have cloud based recording and pay the monthly fee for it rather than having the recording done on some hard drive at your house? How does it end up being cheaper with having to pay a monthly fee vs. buying a recording drive? Everything I read with regards to complaints of the Dropcam revolve around the monthly required fee for cloud recording.

 

Thanks

[stanw 0]

Hi buellwinkle,

 

1.) I just couldn’t imagine running ethernet cable throughout my house to the spots where I would want to mount the cameras. I would need to punch a lot of holes in my walls and do a lot of drywall in order to get the ethernet everywhere I need it. Unless there is some easier way of doing this that I’m unaware of?

 

2.) You mentioned “Milestone client, it's reporting 3.2Mbps. At night that increases because of noise.”

 

I’m on a Mac, though is the idea that if you have 4 cameras that are using 3.2MBps and you get a total of 20MBps with your cable/DSL then you just have to make sure that the 4 cameras do not reach too high of an amount of bandwidth to slow your connection down? Is this what you meant?

 

3.) When you said you use Photoshop to measure resolution, do you mean you just take a screenshot and bring that into Photoshop? Do you just do this to confirm the resolution of a camera, or is there another reason for doing this?

 

4.) So my Dropcam has the ability to lower the resolution of my live stream though it also lowers my recorded resolution, so that will not work. Though, my bandwidth will quickly increase as I add more cams and will slow down quickly if I view live at full resolution and also record full res?

 

Thanks again.

[spork947 0]

Some info from dropcam on the pro

 

http://support.dropcam.com/entries/38268128-1080p-

 

Dropcam uses amazon servers to store your video. You never directly connect to it like a tradional ip cam since its all relayed from the cloud. This means that a nearly unlimited amount of users could view the cam without further slowing your local connection. The recorded quality should only depend on your home connection and you can shut inside cams off when not in use. For maybe 1-3 cams the fee could be well worth it over a tradiional setup which isn't free either. Software, hardware, electricity costs, and your time etc