Anyone tried these Q-see HD Analog systems yet??

[Don Stephens 0]

There has been a problem with HDSDI since it's inception. I would be careful considering it. I've been talking to manufacturers for the last 3 weeks about why everyone suddenly wants to dump their stock.

 

I will quote the last one:

 

"HDSDI really f*%#%ed everyone over."

 

I already have ip cams and want to try an HDSDI because I want latency at live view to be near zero. I won't get dahua HDCVI because it is just a low HD bitrate version as explained in this thread.

 

So what is the best HDSDI brand now with the best live view camera image?

 

If not HDSDI.. what is another option for zero latency live view aside from D1/960H analog. There seems to be no other choice.. are there?

 

I can't help with HDSDI. I'm willing to submit that someone out there is doing it right, but out of all the models and manufacturers we went through, we never found one that worked reliably.

 

I would say that if you're determined to pursue HD analog, the only option I can recommend is HDCVI. I haven't finished testing AHD or HDTVI yet.

[aurmol 0]

There has been a problem with HDSDI since it's inception. I would be careful considering it. I've been talking to manufacturers for the last 3 weeks about why everyone suddenly wants to dump their stock.

 

I will quote the last one:

 

"HDSDI really f*%#%ed everyone over."

 

I already have ip cams and want to try an HDSDI because I want latency at live view to be near zero. I won't get dahua HDCVI because it is just a low HD bitrate version as explained in this thread.

 

So what is the best HDSDI brand now with the best live view camera image?

 

If not HDSDI.. what is another option for zero latency live view aside from D1/960H analog. There seems to be no other choice.. are there?

 

I can't help with HDSDI. I'm willing to submit that someone out there is doing it right, but out of all the models and manufacturers we went through, we never found one that worked reliably.

 

I would say that if you're determined to pursue HD analog, the only option I can recommend is HDCVI. I haven't finished testing AHD or HDTVI yet.

 

Just how bad is the dahua hdcvi compared to the dahua ip? I heard the dahua hdcvi is worse than their own ip models.. how bad? pls. someone supply image comparison at 1080p.

 

the 1080p hdcvi is newer. so how does they manage to squeeze that much data in the analog.. they can only do it with 720p originally. would the cable demand become more sensitive?

[Don Stephens 0]

There's a color difference between their IP and CVI. The IP cameras appear true to color while CVI is slightly "grayed" for a lack of better word. Other than contrast, they look pretty similar.

 

I honestly have no idea how to upload an image on the forum. If you want to tell me how, I can show you a somewhat helpful example.

[ak357 0]

 

I honestly have no idea how to upload an image on the forum. If you want to tell me how, I can show you a somewhat helpful example.

Click "Quote"

Click "Browse" then "Add the file"

[Don Stephens 0]

IP on the left, CVI on the right.

 

Both Dahua and 2MP.

 

You can really only see the change in contrast on the building across the parking lot where the cameras transition. It's a dull area as far as color is concerned. It gets much more obvious when you look at brighter colors.

 

I'll see if I can figure something else out that makes it more apparent.

[Don Stephens 0]

2MP IP PTZ left, 2MP CVI right

 

Both Dahua.

 

This is an unfair example as to image quality as the left has a PTZ camera with optical zoom, and the CVI is digital zoom. It shows a little more of the contrast difference though.

 

It's not exactly something you'd tend to notice unless comparing them side by side like this.

 

"Faded" is probably the word that describes it best.

[aurmol 0]

2MP IP PTZ left, 2MP CVI right

 

Both Dahua.

 

This is an unfair example as to image quality as the left has a PTZ camera with optical zoom, and the CVI is digital zoom. It shows a little more of the contrast difference though.

 

It's not exactly something you'd tend to notice unless comparing them side by side like this.

 

"Faded" is probably the word that describes it best.

 

So the resolution is still good enough to identify car plates.. only contrast is a bit loss from the losses in the analog propagation in the coaxial? Whatever.. cvi is good enough for zero latency live view with little loss of contrast as the cons. And the camera can still resolve detail at the resolving limits of the lens. So what else why you don't or anyone avoid the cvi?

[aurmol 0]

In addition to the above comments.. note of this...

 

I noticed the dahua ip cam with sony exmor sensor has better contrast than the dahua ip cam with aptina sensor (same models but with different sensors). therefore couldn't the cvi on the right picture be using the aptina sensor and sony exmor on the left? or are both the same sensors (what are they)?

[Boogieman 1]

aurmol, what is your application where 1-3 seconds of latency is relevant?

[aurmol 0]

aurmol, what is your application where 1-3 seconds of latency is relevant?

 

 

just putting it at the door & parking.. I want to see the person action real time in coincidence with his voice talking at the intercom or hearing them talk and see the walks in the screen...

 

besides.. I already own 4 ip cams.. I want to try new technology either HD-SDI or HD-CVI but can't find other HD-SDI brand with the multiple functions of dahua cms and mobile viewers...

 

Has any tried Avtech HD-SDI.. is the image quality much better than the ip cams?

[Boogieman 1]

sdi and cvi, while new, are not replacements for ip..the are a stopgap for the interm if you have coax and dont have the ability to replace the cable (its also good for specific long distance runs)...As ip cameras get better its really easy to swap it out if you have ethernet..but i would not run coax on a new install...

if you go with cvi or sdi, run ethernet with baluns (which i believe works fine with those technologies)

I dont know why you have this idea that sdi/cvi will have better image quality than the same camera with using ip....

[aurmol 0]

sdi and cvi, while new, are not replacements for ip..the are a stopgap for the interm if you have coax and dont have the ability to replace the cable (its also good for specific long distance runs)...As ip cameras get better its really easy to swap it out if you have ethernet..but i would not run coax on a new install...

if you go with cvi or sdi, run ethernet with baluns (which i believe works fine with those technologies)

I dont know why you have this idea that sdi/cvi will have better image quality than the same camera with using ip....

 

my runs is only 10 meters... SDI is better in live view because it is pure raw data to your monitor without H.264 compression.. whereas when you view ip cam.. you are seeing the image in your monitor with H.264 compression in effect so instead of resolving more details of the person face, you see jagged compression artifacts in his face... isn't it? This is why image quality is SDI then IP then CVI...

 

ok.. why does CVI image more faded.. what is the figure of the percentage of the loss when the signal pass thru coaxial?

[Boogieman 1]

Dont know what cameras you are using but i dont see artifacts in faces or images.....compression or not, the notion that sdi/cvi is better image quality than ip is not correct..

[SunnyKim 2]

Dont know what cameras you are using but i dont see artifacts in faces or images.....compression or not, the notion that sdi/cvi is better image quality than ip is not correct..

 

Can you please explain the claim based on what?

[aurmol 0]

So why is cvi more faded than ip.. is it because the ip has better compression or because of the cheaper cvi lens or because of some losses in the cable? Now for sake of discussion if the cable was merely 1 meter and highest quality.. would it still be faded?

[aurmol 0]

2MP IP PTZ left, 2MP CVI right

 

Both Dahua.

 

This is an unfair example as to image quality as the left has a PTZ camera with optical zoom, and the CVI is digital zoom. It shows a little more of the contrast difference though.

 

It's not exactly something you'd tend to notice unless comparing them side by side like this.

 

"Faded" is probably the word that describes it best.

 

In other words, hdcvi has less dynamic range than ip cam? is that what you meant? What if a good sensor with very wide dynamic range is used.. then the hdcvi would excel in contrast?

[Don Stephens 0]

In addition to the above comments.. note of this...

 

I noticed the dahua ip cam with sony exmor sensor has better contrast than the dahua ip cam with aptina sensor (same models but with different sensors). therefore couldn't the cvi on the right picture be using the aptina sensor and sony exmor on the left? or are both the same sensors (what are they)?

 

 

Your assumptions are correct here. This could be a classic example of Sony (IP) vs. CMOS (CVI), but I can only show you what Dahua has to offer so far. The standard 2MP fixed bullet from the first image was an Aptina but the contrast is still a noticeable improvement over the CVI bullet.

[Don Stephens 0]

2MP IP PTZ left, 2MP CVI right

 

Both Dahua.

 

This is an unfair example as to image quality as the left has a PTZ camera with optical zoom, and the CVI is digital zoom. It shows a little more of the contrast difference though.

 

It's not exactly something you'd tend to notice unless comparing them side by side like this.

 

"Faded" is probably the word that describes it best.

 

In other words, hdcvi has less dynamic range than ip cam? is that what you meant? What if a good sensor with very wide dynamic range is used.. then the hdcvi would excel in contrast?

 

 

There's a not of comparing them side by side yet until they start making image sensors similar in quality. Otherwise, your guesses are as good as anyone's.

[aurmol 0]

In addition to the above comments.. note of this...

 

I noticed the dahua ip cam with sony exmor sensor has better contrast than the dahua ip cam with aptina sensor (same models but with different sensors). therefore couldn't the cvi on the right picture be using the aptina sensor and sony exmor on the left? or are both the same sensors (what are they)?

 

 

Your assumptions are correct here. This could be a classic example of Sony (IP) vs. CMOS (CVI), but I can only show you what Dahua has to offer so far. The standard 2MP fixed bullet from the first image was an Aptina but the contrast is still a noticeable improvement over the CVI bullet.

 

What sensor does the CVI bullet use? sony or aptina or other brand? It's not written in their website.. can you please take a look inside the actual CVI unit.. tnx

[Don Stephens 0]

I've gutted three cameras and got no closer to identifying the image sensor. The chip is essentially sterile outside of some unrelated information.

 

Reading into it a little more, I found an article that suggests Dahua is producing them in house and refers to it as the DH5000. I can't tell you anything for certain though.

[aurmol 0]

I've gutted three cameras and got no closer to identifying the image sensor. The chip is essentially sterile outside of some unrelated information.

 

Reading into it a little more, I found an article that suggests Dahua is producing them in house and refers to it as the DH5000. I can't tell you anything for certain though.

 

So it explains the bad contrast of the Hdcvi not because of the analog transmission but because the sensor itself is not of sony exmor or aptina quality. If the trend will continue. I think I'll just get an ip cam.

[Don Stephens 0]

I've gutted three cameras and got no closer to identifying the image sensor. The chip is essentially sterile outside of some unrelated information.

 

Reading into it a little more, I found an article that suggests Dahua is producing them in house and refers to it as the DH5000. I can't tell you anything for certain though.

 

So it explains the bad contrast of the Hdcvi not because of the analog transmission but because the sensor itself is not of sony exmor or aptina quality. If the trend will continue. I think I'll just get an ip cam.

 

I would say you're making the right decision.

[aurmol 0]

I bought a 1080p hdcvi and recorder to test as it can be exchanged for other items for two days. The image seems to be faded. At night. Dark object would look so dark unless you set WDR to 50. In the ip cam. Dark object seems to show more contrast even without WDR enabled.

 

Remember the aptina ip cam are more faded than the sony exmor.. but has greater dynamic range. In the Hdcvi, it seems it is more faded than the exmor yet has poorer dynamic range than the exmor.

 

I don't know. Maybe it's the cable i'm using. It's just one foot long. Tomorrow I'll get gold plated coaxial and see if it would improve. What cables have you guys used and how long?

 

Another. There seems to be more noise than the ip cams. And in horizontal lines, the image seems to be boiling like when you see image on top of boiling water. What is this phenomenon called. Does noise cause boiling lines? My main use is at nighttime monitoring doorway.

 

If good cable shows the same thing. I'll exchange it for the 5mp ip cam. It looks like ip cams images are cleaner.

[Don Stephens 0]

Dahua states you should be using solid copper RG59. Our own testing just reinforced that. Copper clad cable did just fine though up to at least 200 feet, and even some of the better plug-and-play cable did well up to 50 feet. We had terrible results with any network cable at any length.

 

Unless your cable is a special kind of terrible, I don't think you can blame those negative effects on it if it's only a foot long.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to describe with the image distortion. Any chance of a picture?

[aurmol 0]

Dahua states you should be using solid copper RG59. Our own testing just reinforced that. Copper clad cable did just fine though up to at least 200 feet, and even some of the better plug-and-play cable did well up to 50 feet. We had terrible results with any network cable at any length.

 

Unless your cable is a special kind of terrible, I don't think you can blame those negative effects on it if it's only a foot long.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to describe with the image distortion. Any chance of a picture?

 

I'll get the best RG59 tom even just a meter to test whether it's just cable. The distortion is when you zoom it say 50X (the large object doesn't have distortion).. so when you zoom at the noise, it's vibrating like in the following pic: