Anyone tried these Q-see HD Analog systems yet??

[Don Stephens 0]

I've never seen anything like that. What model camera is doing that? Is it only happening in low light?

[aurmol 0]

I've never seen anything like that. What model camera is doing that? Is it only happening in low light?

 

No. the above image are just sample of image noise I found in the net. What I was saying was at low light the image of the hdcvi are noisier than the ip. At very low light, you can see noise artifacts and these are the distortion I was talking about. My 1080p hdcvi is http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/hac-hfw2200d-b-516.html Anyway. I spent some time around the city looking and buying other RG-59u cables. There is no improvement in the low dynamic range of the HDcvi. After more testing. The following is my conclusion.

 

1. Don Stephens comments about HDCVI being faded and ip cam contrast being better has basis in reality. He is the only one I found in the net commenting about these and I thought i'ts just his bias.

 

2. The HDCVI images are just so faded. But remember buellwinkle reviews that the ip cam aptina is more faded than the sony exmor but has greater dynamic range. This is not the case with the HDCVI. It has more faded image and yet the dynamic range is worse than the 1080 sony exmor ip cam. The consequence being that in low contrast image such as shadows or even surface features, you can see less details in the hdcvi.

 

3. At daytime, the image is faded.. but at nighttime.. at low light.. it is darker... and there is more noise than in the ip cams.

 

4. In the 1080p version. There is some latency about 100ms. Compare to pure HD-SDI, the 1080p hdcvi has some very very slight delay (why is this?)

 

5. I wonder if Dahua did this in purpose or the limit of analog technology. But it seems it has to do with market strategy. Because if their HDCVI images are equal or better than the ip cams. Then they may cut their ip market. So they have to put the hdcvi images or quality in between the 700tvi analog cam and the ip cams. But could it really be just poorer sensors. How about Hikvision HDtvi. Are these as bad as the HDcvi.. could it be analog transmission related or really the sensors and marketing strategy? In asia, many people are poor so can't afford ip cams. So maybe they made the hdcvi for them.

 

6. I'm now debating myself whether to get the wider 88 degree fov 1080p sony exmor, or the narrow 3MP aptina sensor ipor the 5Mp ip cams. The sensor of the 5MP is unknown. Anyone got an idea what this is? Maybe another dahua in house invention with poor contrast? If I get the 5Mp, I may not be able to return it. I can still return the hdcvi package tomorrow and I will get rid of it asap.

 

7. Thanks for the help.

[Don Stephens 0]

I have also noticed a minor latency issue with HDCVI. It's a fraction of a second as described, and I'm not prepared to call that a deal breaker, but it's noticeable. I can't explain why.

 

I've done a few "HDCVI vs HDTVI" comparisons. The comparisons were always done in a way where we'd only be comparing a manufacturer to itself, and not manufacturer vs manufacturer. Regardless of who made them, I never noticed any difference in image quality between the two; not even small differences. I will emphasize that this was my experience. I'm sure someone else will disagree with me.

 

As it pertains to number 6, I just did a quick side by side comparison this morning of the DS-2CD2032-I (Hikvision 3MP), DH-IPC-HFW4300S (Dahua 3MP Aptina), and DH-IPC-HFW4200S (Dahua 2MP Sony). There is no clear winner between these cameras within the first 20 feet; that should say something about how Sony compares to Aptina. Once you exceed 20 feet, smaller details remain clearer with the Hikvision. After 30 feet is when the 3MP Dahua model overtakes the 2MP. The 3MP cameras were pretty much identical as it applies to angle of view. The 2MP has an increased horizontal of about 5-10 degrees.

[aurmol 0]

I have also noticed a minor latency issue with HDCVI. It's a fraction of a second as described, and I'm not prepared to call that a deal breaker, but it's noticeable. I can't explain why.

 

I've done a few "HDCVI vs HDTVI" comparisons. The comparisons were always done in a way where we'd only be comparing a manufacturer to itself, and not manufacturer vs manufacturer. Regardless of who made them, I never noticed any difference in image quality between the two; not even small differences. I will emphasize that this was my experience. I'm sure someone else will disagree with me.

 

As it pertains to number 6, I just did a quick side by side comparison this morning of the DS-2CD2032-I (Hikvision 3MP), DH-IPC-HFW4300S (Dahua 3MP Aptina), and DH-IPC-HFW4200S (Dahua 2MP Sony). There is no clear winner between these cameras within the first 20 feet; that should say something about how Sony compares to Aptina. Once you exceed 20 feet, smaller details remain clearer with the Hikvision. After 30 feet is when the 3MP Dahua model overtakes the 2MP. The 3MP cameras were pretty much identical as it applies to angle of view. The 2MP has an increased horizontal of about 5-10 degrees.

 

The 4200S is listed as having 88 degrees fov while the 4300S is listed as 72 degrees, so the difference is 16 degrees. Since I need close to 90 degrees to image the square parking entrance by putting the camera at a corner. The 4300S 72 degrees seems a deal breaker to me. If your target views are bright or where constrast difference between neighboring parts are high. You won't notice much difference. But at areas of low contrast like tire markings or even the tires themselves or how smooth the skin of the person, the two can show differences.. at least according to buellwinkle. I already have two 4200S and colors saturations seem to lower detail as I tested again last night. And since the 4300S has narrow fov and the 5MP has only 12fps limit. And the HiKvision 3MP costs more than the dahua 5MP here. I seemed unable to get any clear choice.. maybe I'll retain the HDCVI as the 1080m camera and 1U smart recorder are one half the price of a single 5MP and the same as the price of the 4300S. Need to make decision in 24 hours or I can't exchange anything anymore.

 

I notice the noises in the hdcvi are more suppressed when you set the WDR to 50 as if the dynamic range allows more signal over noise...

 

I wonder if you have tested the aptina vs the hdcvi side by side.. you may notice their colors are similarly dull compared to the sony exmor. But which is even duller, the aptina or the hdcvi? And how's the dynamic range? Could the hdcvi sensors be bleeding signals between neighboring sensor unit because the factory is not intel quality... in ip cam, there is analog to digital converter right at the sensors.. but in the hdcvi.. is it possible it is all analogs from sensor to cable without any A/D conversion? If so, maybe the bleeding of signals is caused by slight radio frequency interference before the cable. I used RG-59u solid copper core with total internal reflection so the cable is not the problem.

[Don Stephens 0]

I believe the angles of view they're providing are the diagonal; that would be why I say 5-10 horizontal while they 16. Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. I just looked at this morning and it sure as heck wasn't a 16 degree difference.

 

Apparently I posted the picture comparing HDCVI to the Aptina sensor somewhere else...so here it is again. I'll spare you the suspense; the HDCVI sensor loses. [Aptina left, HDCVi right]

[aurmol 0]

I believe the angles of view they're providing are the diagonal; that would be why I say 5-10 horizontal while they 16. Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. I just looked at this morning and it sure as heck wasn't a 16 degree difference.

 

Apparently I posted the picture comparing HDCVI to the Aptina sensor somewhere else...so here it is again. I'll spare you the suspense; the HDCVI sensor loses. [Aptina left, HDCVi right]

 

Did you remember reading the angle of view they are providing are diagonal and not the horizontal or just a guess? The angle of view is the only thing stopping me from getting the 3MP. In the square parking driveway. there is still a 5 degrees hidden area where the robber can hide so 90 degree seems critical.

 

Also I assume the 4300S has similar sensor characteristic as the 4300E (the one available in my country in another package but all specs the same).

 

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products_category/3-megapixels-325.html

[aurmol 0]

In the following thread, you will see the difference in angle of view between the aptina and the sony exmor. You will see the difference is really about 16 degrees. Maybe you didn't center each of them vertically. Most vendors quote the field of view as horizontal.. because if 72 degrees is the diagonal then the horizontal is 60 degree and this is too small.

 

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=33328&p=240519&hilit=sensor+or+a+different+vendor+for+the+3.6mm+lens#p240519

 

I also justed tested the 1080p cvi fov by putting it at corner of a room, the angle is 70 degrees or less. So the 88 degree sony exmor still win over. However the 5MP is 82 degrees and I may just get it in less than 5 hours in exchange for the hdcvi. So if any have any last word how good or bad the dahua 5Mp, let me know now. Thanks.

[Don Stephens 0]

I believe the angles of view they're providing are the diagonal; that would be why I say 5-10 horizontal while they 16. Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. I just looked at this morning and it sure as heck wasn't a 16 degree difference.

 

Apparently I posted the picture comparing HDCVI to the Aptina sensor somewhere else...so here it is again. I'll spare you the suspense; the HDCVI sensor loses. [Aptina left, HDCVi right]

 

Did you remember reading the angle of view they are providing are diagonal and not the horizontal or just a guess? The angle of view is the only thing stopping me from getting the 3MP. In the square parking driveway. there is still a 5 degrees hidden area where the robber can hide so 90 degree seems critical.

 

Also I assume the 4300S has similar sensor characteristic as the 4300E (the one available in my country in another package but all specs the same).

 

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products_category/3-megapixels-325.html

 

I didn't read it anywhere but they like to flex their numbers by using the diagonal only instead of listing both the horizontal and vertical; same concept as what sellers do when advertising a TV.

 

The only Dahua IP cameras that exceed a 75 degree horizontal are the ones using the Sony sensors, and I went through some pretty painstaking efforts to be able to say for a fact that those Sony sensors tap out at 80-82 degrees. Having said that, I've never known any camera of any type to claim a true 90 degree horizontal with a 3.6mm lens. I've had to drop in 2.5mm lenses on a number of occasions to achieve a full 90 and that's much easier said than done in some cases.

 

Like you said, the specs are the same between the 4300S and 4300E. I've never tested the 4300E so I have no room to talk about it with any authority. I will say that I have tested other cameras with that body style though and they did just fine as long as you kept them out of the sun for prolonged periods of time.

[aurmol 0]

I believe the angles of view they're providing are the diagonal; that would be why I say 5-10 horizontal while they 16. Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. I just looked at this morning and it sure as heck wasn't a 16 degree difference.

 

Apparently I posted the picture comparing HDCVI to the Aptina sensor somewhere else...so here it is again. I'll spare you the suspense; the HDCVI sensor loses. [Aptina left, HDCVi right]

 

Did you remember reading the angle of view they are providing are diagonal and not the horizontal or just a guess? The angle of view is the only thing stopping me from getting the 3MP. In the square parking driveway. there is still a 5 degrees hidden area where the robber can hide so 90 degree seems critical.

 

Also I assume the 4300S has similar sensor characteristic as the 4300E (the one available in my country in another package but all specs the same).

 

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products_category/3-megapixels-325.html

 

I didn't read it anywhere but they like to flex their numbers by using the diagonal only instead of listing both the horizontal and vertical; same concept as what sellers do when advertising a TV.

 

The only Dahua IP cameras that exceed a 75 degree horizontal are the ones using the Sony sensors, and I went through some pretty painstaking efforts to be able to say for a fact that those Sony sensors tap out at 80-82 degrees. Having said that, I've never known any camera of any type to claim a true 90 degree horizontal with a 3.6mm lens. I've had to drop in 2.5mm lenses on a number of occasions to achieve a full 90 and that's much easier said than done in some cases.

 

Like you said, the specs are the same between the 4300S and 4300E. I've never tested the 4300E so I have no room to talk about it with any authority. I will say that I have tested other cameras with that body style though and they did just fine as long as you kept them out of the sun for prolonged periods of time.

 

But my 4300E is under the sun whole day... are you saying the sunlight can destroy the lens coating? or what damages can possibly occur?

 

I just got the 5Mp dahua in exchange for the hdcvi and the field of view of the 5mp is almost close to 90 degrees.. maybe 88 degrees because putting it at corner of room can make me see the two adjacent walls. See full descriptions of the 5Mp at

 

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=43946&p=261759#p261759

[Don Stephens 0]

The 4300E doesn't (or didn't) have any kind of shield to force that heat coming from the sun to dissipate or prevent it from beating on the camera all day long; the end result was the cameras began to overheat and shutdown. Mounting it under and eaves/overhang solves the problem immediately.

 

I meant to mention this before, but do not take my word for it when it comes to those numbers/angles. I'm positive our own tests are accurate, but those tests are based on products that we received. I can think of multiple reasons those numbers can change from person to person.

[aurmol 0]

The 4300E doesn't (or didn't) have any kind of shield to force that heat coming from the sun to dissipate or prevent it from beating on the camera all day long; the end result was the cameras began to overheat and shutdown. Mounting it under and eaves/overhang solves the problem immediately.

 

I meant to mention this before, but do not take my word for it when it comes to those numbers/angles. I'm positive our own tests are accurate, but those tests are based on products that we received. I can think of multiple reasons those numbers can change from person to person.

 

Ok. Thanks for the tips. Well. I just got the cover of this unit that I used indoor http://jovisionuk.co.uk/jvs-n81-na-2mp-ip-camera/2161825 and put it over the top of the 4200E (like 4300E). It is sufficient?

 

Do you know how to reset the 4300E.. or your 4300S? Because this morning I was testing the 5mp and I pulled out one of the poe port and after the original dome got back, I forgot the password. Good the one in the port is an eyeball dome (rest bullet) and had to climb up to reset it. I realized I forgot all passwords of all ipcams so how do you reset the bullet?

[jazzgtrl4 0]

HI anyone tried this Qsee system, what do you think..1080p analog HD ? using better wires would probably help alot

 

http://www.costco.com/Q-See-16-Channel-HD-1080p-Security-System-with-2TB-HDD-and-8-1080p-Cameras.product.100159617.html