Invasion of privacy - bad neighbors

[Dirk_D 0]

a friend has been dealing with some problematic neighbors - it's a long story but several months ago they installed cameras that cover his driveway, house, garage, and back yard. They have 2 cameras guarding a sliver of their own property.

 

I have a neighbor ('s kid) who's been problematic in the past and the worst I've done is cover the front of their house, with the blessing of the live-in homeowner. These pictures seem like harassment, invasive, etc. Are there any legal avenues to take, or is this best handled off the books?

 

These are shining directly on his property. I felt like climbing on a ladder and moving them for him. This is Salt Lake City, Utah if it makes a difference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ssnapier 0]

Why not use IR lights instead? Given the proximity of those properties it is almost impossible to use any kind of visible light that would not disturb the neighbor.

[Dirk_D 0]

?

 

The cameras are pointed at my friend's house, and I believe they're invading his privacy.

 

They have no right IMO to have their cameras pointed at his back yard, in the garage, and even the kitchen windows.

[ssnapier 0]

Ah ok... well, here is the deal. I know that Utah is one of the most restrictive states in the country when it comes to CCTV laws, but I am far from knowing all of them. What we do not know is if the owner of those cameras is using privacy masking to watch his stuff and not your friends. If he has seen video footage that proves otherwise, I think he is within his rights to get the police or an attorney involved.

 

Before getting that far though, has he talked to guy and expressed his concerns?

[Dirk_D 0]

They've sued each other back & forth, starting with that fence (land dispute for starters).

 

It's a long story and I've heard too much of it already.

 

It seems the neighbors are using it as a passive-aggressive move. It looks like a blatant offense to me and I was hoping someone could cite a law that would help him, and even if not, I'll still learn a little.

 

Serves as a reminder to try to get along!

[Numb-nuts 1]

Have you approached the CCTV owner? There is bound to be some overspill fro their property into neigbouring properties. If as you suggest the cameras view a disproportionate area of neighbouring properties to their own then indeed you could have cause for complaint.

 

This is the very typical sort of dispute that arises where amateurs delve into fitting their own CCTV systems, a professional would not have created or allow to be created such a situation. It may well be that he owner has no experience and has no idea how to site cameras correctly and just plonked them up at the most convenient mounting point. I often see more cameras on this soert of instllation than it would take me or other professionals to cover the same area.

 

MY PROFESSIONAL ADVISE

Getting back to your CCTV owning neighbour, do try to resolve the matter without involving official agencies, or you could ESCALATE the situation into a long running neignbourhood feud in which nobody ever wins (do they? ).

 

I get the impression from your comments that you are looking for a grounds upon which to base a complaint to officials so it may well be that there is already a feud brewing.... I do not want to support any such effort, try to resolve this among yourselves if the desire is there.....if not this is not a place to gather ammunition.

 

[Dirk_D 0]

There's definitely been a feud brewing for the last 1.5 years.

 

I'm not a part of it in case that's not clear. I'm just trying to help a friend - I went over there to do some phone & cable terminations yesterday and I saw the extent of the intrusion. It just looks wrong and I know it would bother me.

[Numb-nuts 1]

I am glad to hear you are not in the feud, try and steer your friend towards MEDIATION that the only way to go ...

Don't allow yourself to get embroiled i the feud, as they will surely expect you to take sides. Good luck !

[milkisbad 0]

Just install some cameras at your friend's house and point it all at the neighbor, when that neighbor complains he can say "I'll take down mine if you take down yours"

 

If a guy always park his car on the sidewalk in front of your house EVEN if he has space already, find a junker and park it on his side when the space opens up (or use it to hog your space).

[Numb-nuts 1]

sounds an interesting prospect, and Hey while you are at the junk yard why not buy the nasty dog they aways seem to have in every junkyard and train it to bite the neighbour, perhaps take out a few neighbourhood kids at the same time.... That should REALLY solve the problem peacefully

[milkisbad 0]

Having the trained dog wouldn't be legally passive aggressive though haha

 

But parking the car on public sidewalk which just happened to be in front of their house is!

 

Pointing the cameras at their house (or just give the illusion its pointing at their house) is kind of in a grey area...

[buellwinkle 0]

Each state is different but generally "invasion of privacy" laws apply to areas where there's a reasonable expectation of privacy like a bedroom, dressing room, locker room or bathroom. For example, someone's backyard, a living room is likely fair game.

 

If there's cameras pointed at such an area, one could in theory file a police report. Whether anything would be done is uncertain. I know in my area, if it's a neighbor to neighbor issue and there's no acts of violence, the Sheriff would likely blow it off as civil matter. To add a sense of urgency, if the bedrooms contain children, one can mention child pornography as their intent to law enforcement, I'm sure that would get their attention and law enforcement may go straight in to confiscate recording devices.

 

If someone shined a bright light into my bedroom on purpose for the purpose of harassment and they refused to yield to reason, I would likely seek a civil harassment restraining order.

[Numb-nuts 1]

I would say thats it in a nutshell, "where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy"

 

I wouldn't worry anyway, Swann cameras aren't all that good.

[Mat 0]

Lasers....

yo2amurNGEw

 

 

wuI4K3muFYg

 

A small one could blind the cam. A larger one could damage/kill it. Keeping in mind that the time to set them up is after dark, as those IR LED's generally only have a range of a few feet. Where as the laser will be effective at tens of feet.

 

Or you could just pick up a few sub $10 IR LED spot lights off of ebay. Course that will only work at night...

 

An errant shot from the many paint ball games he likes to play (all of a sudden) in his back yard...

 

Also if that fence is on the property line, then it is also owned by your friend. Attach a long 2x4 to it with a 2' x 2' picture of your butt crack nailed to the top of it (blocking the cam)....

 

The ideas are fun and endless. But the real lesson here is that you can disown family, but neighbors are for life. So get a long or you've already lost....

[johnnycw 0]

The cameras would be legal in my community. If you can view it with your eyes from your own property, its fair game to a camera. Some of my residential cameras spill over and cover a few of my neighbors. I informed them of it and they were appreciative if they ever have a theft issue. However I also have a good relationship with my neighbors. I also have a camera that covers the traffic on my dead end street. That camera's footage has been responsible for helping arrest suspects in two separate local burglarys the past few years. Every property owner on my street are also aware of it and have no objections.

[dalepres 0]

This really doesn't sound like something that can be solved without the courts. I definitely recommend that your friend not engage in more tit-for-tat. Don't harass or interfere with the cameras with lasers or lights. Doing so would violate the neighbor's space in the same way as the neighbor is violating your friend's space.

 

I'm not a lawyer and I don't even play one on the Internet but my recommendation is that your friend go to court and seek a court order requiring them to mask the cameras to not show areas of your friend's property where they would normally expect privacy - beyond a fence, for instance - and that the neighbor be required to provide your friend access to view the cameras through the Internet a limited number of times per month to verify that the camera settings are not changed.

[Boogieman 1]

This really doesn't sound like something that can be solved without the courts. I definitely recommend that your friend not engage in more tit-for-tat. Don't harass or interfere with the cameras with lasers or lights. Doing so would violate the neighbor's space in the same way as the neighbor is violating your friend's space.

 

I'm not a lawyer and I don't even play one on the Internet but my recommendation is that your friend go to court and seek a court order requiring them to mask the cameras to not show areas of your friend's property where they would normally expect privacy - beyond a fence, for instance - and that the neighbor be required to provide your friend access to view the cameras through the Internet a limited number of times per month to verify that the camera settings are not changed.

Ha, that will never happen...no court will ever order access to another persons cameras..

[need2shave 0]

This comes up in the PI world all the time. Essentially, if you're outdoors in view of the public in the U.S., you have no expectation of privacy. If the cameras are pointed at what can be observed by anyone passing by the area, you're probably out of luck as you have no expectation of privacy. Courts have ruled on this numerous times. If the cameras are pointing into windows, over privacy fences, etc., then that's a different story.

[dalepres 0]

This comes up in the PI world all the time. Essentially, if you're outdoors in view of the public in the U.S., you have no expectation of privacy. If the cameras are pointed at what can be observed by anyone passing by the area, you're probably out of luck as you have no expectation of privacy. Courts have ruled on this numerous times. If the cameras are pointing into windows, over privacy fences, etc., then that's a different story.

 

That's what I said. Get a court order to protect the areas where you would expect privacy such as behind the fence.

[Boogieman 1]

This comes up in the PI world all the time. Essentially, if you're outdoors in view of the public in the U.S., you have no expectation of privacy. If the cameras are pointed at what can be observed by anyone passing by the area, you're probably out of luck as you have no expectation of privacy. Courts have ruled on this numerous times. If the cameras are pointing into windows, over privacy fences, etc., then that's a different story.

 

That's what I said. Get a court order to protect the areas where you would expect privacy such as behind the fence.

you are missing the point..if the area is visible from the street or for that matter a camera mounted on the street there is no expectation of privacy...I can point a camera on my house that gets my neighbors yard behind his fence...if the camera sees what the human eye can see then its no problem...

You make it sound easy to get a court order...will probably cost you 15k in attorney fees and most likely yield no court order.

[Samir 0]

I like the lasers idea. Just kill the cameras with one laser shot. Then he can replace the cameras. Just be sure it is done while completely naked so the video can't be shown as evidence for damaging the cameras without also exposing the cameras recording in a way that invades privacy.